Going to start my 8 week old puppy on raw, looking for advice.

[Wild Wolf]

Hello everyone!

My puppy comes home in less than five weeks, and I have decided to feed raw prey model from day one. My breeder is going to introduce raw to the pup before the s/he comes home.

I plan on starting with chicken, so I wanted to verify that chicken wings would be a good thing to start with on day one. Would I feed JUST bone-in chicken wings to begin with, then slowly add organ meat?

I also need some help figuring out how to determine how much to feed. If I recall correctly, it is 2-3% of the ideal adult body weight for a puppy. How do you determine your dog's ideal body weight, and how do you make the calculations?

Is there any other chicken source ideal for 8 week old puppies?

Anyone have any good, detailed online resources they can share so that I can further my knowledge and be fully prepared?

Also, where should I look to find someone to buy in bulk from? A butcher? A meat shop?

I appreciate your time and help!

[lhczth]

The problem with chicken wings is that they contain a LOT of bone and little meat. You will find they can bind up a puppy fairly quickly. I actually like to buy whole chickens (often cheaper) and cut them up into puppy sized pieces or I use leg quarters. An 8 week old may have issues with the legs, but the rest would be easily chewed. I will then add in turkey necks (the small end or smaller ones), beef meat, pork meat, lamb meat, eggs, organic yogurt, and offal. Not all at once, but over time. When you introduce offal, and that could be after the first week, do it in small amounts. Same with beef, pork or lamb heart. All of these can make for soft poops.

My lamb (actually mutton) I get straight from a breeder. The rest I buy from my local grocer. Her orders stuff for me in bulk. Not all stores will do this. Otherwise you can try butches, meat shops, renderers, meat packers, etc. You might also search for a raw feeding co-op in your area. They will buy in bulk amounts and that can save people money.

I don't weigh food (except my own) so I can't help you there.

Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch is a good resource.

[Wild Wolf]

Originally Posted by lhczth

The problem with chicken wings is that they contain a LOT of bone and little meat. You will find they can bind up a puppy fairly quickly. I actually like to buy whole chickens (often cheaper) and cut them up into puppy sized pieces or I use leg quarters. An 8 week old may have issues with the legs, but the rest would be easily chewed. I will then add in turkey necks (the small end or smaller ones), beef meat, pork meat, lamb meat, eggs, organic yogurt, and offal. Not all at once, but over time. When you introduce offal, and that could be after the first week, do it in small amounts. Same with beef, pork or lamb heart. All of these can make for soft poops.

My lamb (actually mutton) I get straight from a breeder. The rest I buy from my local grocer. Her orders stuff for me in bulk. Not all stores will do this. Otherwise you can try butches, meat shops, renderers, meat packers, etc. You might also search for a raw feeding co-op in your area. They will buy in bulk amounts and that can save people money.

I don't weigh food (except my own) so I can't help you there.

Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch is a good resource.

Thank you for the advice! So an eight week old puppy can eat everything on a whole chicken except perhaps those thick leg bones? What about chicken backs and turkey necks.

[onyx'girl]

Chicken backs are bony too. You may want to cut them in 1/2 and feed some muscle meat or tripe with it to balance it out. Turkey necks may be hard for a baby to get thru. I fed chicken necks, and the legs/thighs.
My pup was a gulper though and would try to swallow them whole. He was introduced to raw at his breeders, so experienced with bones.
I fed ground mixes(pork, turkey, beef, venison) and the chicken w/ bones along with fresh(frozen) green tripe.

[elisabeth_00117]

Okay, this is from an email I sent someone who asked me about feeding a puppy raw. It's basically how I raised/raise Stark on this diet. *Copied and pasted from my email.*

Stark is fed raw meat, bones and organs. I try to get as many protein sources into him as I can and on a regular basis the proteins we use are:

- beef
- chicken
- pork
- turkey
- fish (no salmon)
- buffalo
- ostrich
- rabbit
- lamb
- goat

I also feed raw eggs three to four times per week as well as 1000mg of Vit. C & E daily. I also give him a tablespoon of fish oil every day 2000mg. The Vit. C helps with joint growth/maintance and the fish oil helps with dry skin and fur. The egg is also there as a protein source as well as helps with a shinny coat.

The way I calculate how much Stark gets per day is based on what his ideal adult weight will be. I average him to be about 90-100lbs when he is done filling out. You take 2% of their ideal adult weight (100lbs) which would be 2lbs, then you divide that up using these percentages:

RBM (Raw meaty bone) - 50 %
Turkey necks, chicken necks, chicken backs, pork next bone, chicken quarters, beef riblets, whole fish, rabbit, etc.

MM (Muscle meat) - 45 %
Ground beef, turkey breast, chicken breast, steaklets, chicken gizzards, etc.

OM (organ meat) - 5 %
Kidney, liver, brain

So, for Stark his meal plan looks like this:

RBM (50% of 2lbs) - 1lbs
MM (45% of 2lbs) - 14.4 ounces
OM (5% of 2lbs) - 1.6 ounces

He gets fed that amount daily. I only feed once per day, usually in the evenings but that is just because Stark is a picky eater. I would perfer to have him eat twice per day but he won't. I feed him at night before bed after his heavy exercise is finished to minimalism his chance to bloat. Dogs fed raw are not going to drink as much either as they get a lot more moisture in their meals than kibble fed dogs, they also have a lesser chance to bloat because the food doesn't sit in their stomachs as long. Also, dogs fed raw have tiny grape sized NON-SMELLY poops. Less gas and less chance of developing an allergy because there are no added preservatives or additives in their meals (also, no grain which is a big allergy inducer).

A typical meal here would look like this:

1lb of chicken backs (RBM)
14.4 ounces of ground beef (MM)
1.6 ounces of beef or lamb liver
1 raw whole egg (shell and all)
1000mg of Vit. C
1 teaspoon of fish oil

Chicken backs, wings, neck bones have less meat and more bone. You can do two things, either decrease the bone and add a little more MM; leave the ratios alone and suppliment with more MM on another day or add chicken quarters instead of backs one day but keep the MM the same. As long as you are feeding a variety and not just feeding one thing the dog will be fine in my opinion. I use to measure out to the exact ounce, make sure the MM and RBM ratios worked, etc. but now I do it by eye.. he gets lots of variety so I am not concerned.

[tuffloud1]

Originally Posted by elisabeth_00117

Okay, this is from an email I sent someone who asked me about feeding a puppy raw. It's basically how I raised/raise Stark on this diet. *Copied and pasted from my email.*

Stark is fed raw meat, bones and organs. I try to get as many protein sources into him as I can and on a regular basis the proteins we use are:

- beef
- chicken
- pork
- turkey
- fish (no salmon)
- buffalo
- ostrich
- rabbit
- lamb
- goat

I also feed raw eggs three to four times per week as well as 1000mg of Vit. C & E daily. I also give him a tablespoon of fish oil every day 2000mg. The Vit. C helps with joint growth/maintance and the fish oil helps with dry skin and fur. The egg is also there as a protein source as well as helps with a shinny coat.

The way I calculate how much Stark gets per day is based on what his ideal adult weight will be. I average him to be about 90-100lbs when he is done filling out. You take 2% of their ideal adult weight (100lbs) which would be 2lbs, then you divide that up using these percentages:

RBM (Raw meaty bone) - 50 %
Turkey necks, chicken necks, chicken backs, pork next bone, chicken quarters, beef riblets, whole fish, rabbit, etc.

MM (Muscle meat) - 45 %
Ground beef, turkey breast, chicken breast, steaklets, chicken gizzards, etc.

OM (organ meat) - 5 %
Kidney, liver, brain

So, for Stark his meal plan looks like this:

RBM (50% of 2lbs) - 1lbs
MM (45% of 2lbs) - 14.4 ounces
OM (5% of 2lbs) - 1.6 ounces

He gets fed that amount daily. I only feed once per day, usually in the evenings but that is just because Stark is a picky eater. I would perfer to have him eat twice per day but he won't. I feed him at night before bed after his heavy exercise is finished to minimalism his chance to bloat. Dogs fed raw are not going to drink as much either as they get a lot more moisture in their meals than kibble fed dogs, they also have a lesser chance to bloat because the food doesn't sit in their stomachs as long. Also, dogs fed raw have tiny grape sized NON-SMELLY poops. Less gas and less chance of developing an allergy because there are no added preservatives or additives in their meals (also, no grain which is a big allergy inducer).

A typical meal here would look like this:

1lb of chicken backs (RBM)
14.4 ounces of ground beef (MM)
1.6 ounces of beef or lamb liver
1 raw whole egg (shell and all)
1000mg of Vit. C
1 teaspoon of fish oil

Chicken backs, wings, neck bones have less meat and more bone. You can do two things, either decrease the bone and add a little more MM; leave the ratios alone and suppliment with more MM on another day or add chicken quarters instead of backs one day but keep the MM the same. As long as you are feeding a variety and not just feeding one thing the dog will be fine in my opinion. I use to measure out to the exact ounce, make sure the MM and RBM ratios worked, etc. but now I do it by eye.. he gets lots of variety so I am not concerned.

Great information!

How do I calculate the daily amount to be fed? My pup is 11 weeks today.

Also, how do you feed the vitamin C, and what kind of fish oil do you use?

[elisabeth_00117]

You figure out an ideal adult weight of your dog, so knowing the parents, any siblings from previous litters, talking to your breeder, etc. will help determine this.

Stark is expected to top out at about 90-95lbs (he's about 89lbs right now at 2 years and still not finished filling out), so I used 100lbs as my starting point since he is hard to keep weight on (super-de-duper active).

I then take 2% of his ideal weight (100lbs) which would be 2lbs. This is the amount I feed per day. I only feed once per day but I highly suggest you feed 2 or even 3 times per day with a puppy. If Stark would eat more than once per day then I would feed twice. He's picky and we have finally figured out that he only likes to eat once per day.

Vit. C, E is what I feed as well as fish oil (caplets). I use the generic brand from my local drug store or Costco.

For the vit. C and E, I just toss it in the MM/OM mixture, same goes for the fish oil. He just eats it up with his meal.

[marshies]

Thanks for the really helpful post Elisabeth!

Something you might want to consider doing, if you don't have a huge variety of meats available, is to look up the dietary requirements of a GSD (in terms of iron, calcium, that kind of thing) followed by the nutrient analysis of meats that you plan to feed him.

Then, in Excel, along the top row, write the meats that you can feed and the amount you plan to feed it. Along the first column, list out all the nutrients the dog requires. Either formulate the spreadsheet so that when you insert the amount you plan to feed, the corresponding nutrients come out, or do it manually. Tally everything up to make sure that over a period, say like a week, your dog is getting all the necessarily nutrients. If not, figure out what and where you need to supplement.

This is what I plan to do when I start to feed raw. I cannot get a rich source of proteins like Elisabeth, and want to make sure that my puppy gets all that it needs.

[tuffloud1]

Originally Posted by elisabeth_00117

You figure out an ideal adult weight of your dog, so knowing the parents, any siblings from previous litters, talking to your breeder, etc. will help determine this.

Stark is expected to top out at about 90-95lbs (he's about 89lbs right now at 2 years and still not finished filling out), so I used 100lbs as my starting point since he is hard to keep weight on (super-de-duper active).

I then take 2% of his ideal weight (100lbs) which would be 2lbs. This is the amount I feed per day. I only feed once per day but I highly suggest you feed 2 or even 3 times per day with a puppy. If Stark would eat more than once per day then I would feed twice. He's picky and we have finally figured out that he only likes to eat once per day.

Vit. C, E is what I feed as well as fish oil (caplets). I use the generic brand from my local drug store or Costco.

For the vit. C and E, I just toss it in the MM/OM mixture, same goes for the fish oil. He just eats it up with his meal.

I understand the part about feeding 2% of his ideal bodyweight, but when do I start feeding a different amount? Is it just 2% from 11 weeks into adulthood? When do I change the amount he's eating?

[elisabeth_00117]

Same amount.

You may find you need to increase or decrease as he grows (usually increase) but typically it stays the same.

If you were relying on his puppy weight (I think it is 7-8%, please don't quote me on that because I never fed that way so do not know what is correct) then you would be changing his amounts daily/weekly as he grows. Too much work and too confusing for me.