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Old 01-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Practicing backside jumps and 270s

Some late night, super cold, agility practice last night. Though it seems shes struggling a bit with understanding the "back, back, back, back, back, back, back" cue in this video, she actually knows it decently well. In fact, I used it to backside jump a double jump at a trial last weekend! I have video (which I haven't processed yet). Anyway, it dawned on me last night that she should know the cue well enough to start working 270s a little more. Enjoy the video.

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Old 01-25-2013, 09:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Since dogs are more apt to use their eyes first for a physical cue, and their ears last with our verbals (don't let me tell you how often I SAY the wrong obstacle but and facing the correct one so my girls do it.....) how are you PHYSICALLY cuing a jump differently when you want them to go around and behind vs if you just want them to take the jump?

I haven't trained alot of this backside jumping yet just cause it's a newer agility thing and I have to start thinking about adding to my bag of tricks. But I know I have to be clear, EARLY and figure out how to get my girls to 'see' it differently than when I'm just normally approaching a jump.

I feel I'm going to be attending some seminars/clinics in the near future so I will be taught so I can then teach my dog. I know it's not clear to me what I need to do physically, so I can't really start up yet in my yard (and it's cold, and there is snow on the ground...)
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MaggieRoseLee View Post
Since dogs are more apt to use their eyes first for a physical cue, and their ears last with our verbals (don't let me tell you how often I SAY the wrong obstacle but and facing the correct one so my girls do it.....) how are you PHYSICALLY cuing a jump differently when you want them to go around and behind vs if you just want them to take the jump?
What physical cue did you see me do in the video? Not everyone believes that physical cues will ALWAYS override verbal cues. Stewart Mah, for example, trains incredibly strong verbal cues. I've read (haven't seen first hand) that he inverses Mecklenburg's cue chart putting verbals first. When he says "Tunnel!" and runs away from the tunnel, he expects his dog to go run to the tunnel, in spite of his handler position.

I was giving physical cues though. It should be apparent in the video. Hands, feet, shoulders, motion- all are going to the outside of the stanchion. Even so, the point is for the verbal to be the main cue, and the rest can support the verbal. You saw (if you watched the video) that I didn't need to go way into the 270 to support the backside of the second jump. If you're relying on physical cues to get the 270- then I think you're already behind the dog. This is one place for sure that a verbal should override physical. I want to say "back back back back" as she's landing the the first jump, and I want to be running for the line between the second jump of the 270 and the next obstacle. If I have to hang back to physically support so she doesn't pull in between the 270 jumps, then I'm making myself late for whatever is after the 270.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I just know on course, when I'm running fast and flowing I need to be early and clear with my commands.

And past practices with my dogs are they tend follow my shoulders/feet/hands/head rather than my verbals. Sometimes it's for the best and sometimes it's not

Like I said I have NOT been training this backside thing really with my girls at all. So I'm just going from past experiences and the fact I had the volume turned down on my computer when I started your video . So I just saw you step toward the jump the first few times and your dog take the jump and, from just watching, thought the session was right on track.

I didn't realize until I turned the volume up that the jumps were supposed to be back jumped from the start and not when she started back jumping at about your 4th attempt. That's when I also noticed you were changing your position in relation to the jump when she finally did go around to do it properly.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I didn't realize until I turned the volume up that the jumps were supposed to be back jumped from the start and not when she started back jumping.
LOL! Ok, now I'm laughing, MRL. Yes- now it all makes sense. In fact, now that you have your volume up- you can here that I am giving the verbal quite early on the 270s. Sometimes even before she took the first jump (which might actually be a bit too early, but she's a rockstar and figures it out)

Geez that's funny though. I kept thinking- "What is she talking about!? I was giving early cues!"
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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As far as forgetting or saying the wrong cue on course- I just haven't had a problem with this when it comes to backsides. Your head says "got to get them to the back!" and the word "back" just comes out of your mouth. There's not much to trip up your verbal when the verbal is the same as the directional AND positional!
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Willy, you should watch the video and how you adjust with no volume.

Neat to see how we train and break things down when they don't understand.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I like your "back back back back" cue, I'm using "around" with Odin right now and he just tunes me out. Odin thinks that going around to the back side of the jump is the stupidest thing I have ever asked him to do!
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildo View Post
What physical cue did you see me do in the video? Not everyone believes that physical cues will ALWAYS override verbal cues. Stewart Mah, for example, trains incredibly strong verbal cues. I've read (haven't seen first hand) that he inverses Mecklenburg's cue chart putting verbals first. When he says "Tunnel!" and runs away from the tunnel, he expects his dog to go run to the tunnel, in spite of his handler position.
We often compete at the same trials as Stuart, and he is quite fun to watch! His dog has amazing verbal cues, which is why I think he's so successful in snooker and gamblers, among other things. I actually have a private lesson scheduled with him next month to work on snooker, so it will be interesting to see how he teaches too.

In your video, it seems like she doesn't quite get the verbal cue yet. Each time she is successful, your physical cues are stronger than the times she doesn't get it. But great job working on it, can't wait to see how you do in the masters challenge class!
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Here is how much physical cue I give "in real life" (meaning- at a trial). In my Jackpot run you can see me send to the backside of the double jump. Heck yeah!!! We hadn't ever done that before!

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