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Old 11-14-2012, 12:19 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I will post later to this via computer. I now have lost 2 long a** replies via my phone! Errrrrr
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Originally Posted by MaggieRoseLee View Post
Wow! so much information and help from everyone so sorry if I repeat...

I would NOT use corrections unless there was death or mayhem with injuries about to come about. Your dog is still really young and having gone thru GloryB just really maturing this year at THREE, know to be careful in training....

You've just started up in this new fun class with new dogs/people/equipment, right? So alot of what you are seeing may just fade away over the next few weeks when she realizes that the game is the same, just the locale is changed. Won't be so much fun to dart off and away to do a contact when she realizes THAT won't give a treat/reward, but sticking near mom and doing what she asks does!

I'd DEFINITELY have the tug toy on me at all times (I keep mine tucked in the back of my pants) not to throw away but to draw the dog back in for a rousing game of tug WITH you.

Make sure your pup is hungry.

Make sure you are using REAL treats. The chicken, beef, cheese, special stuff that only comes from you and only in class.

Do you have those short training tabs you can put on the collar so it's easy to grab and keep on your dog but not as in the way as a regular long leash?

Think I'd really work more on managing the situation and coming up with smart ways to better handle your dog. Sound like you are doing SUCH a great job with the joy for the sport and motivation... so hate to see that get affected with corrections for 'bad' rather than the pup trying to think and earn the rewards for being 'good'.

You using a clicker? May want to take it out and use it frequently for awhile to get your pup back involved in learning and focused on you.

If you respect your instructor and how their dogs are behaving, definitely ask for their suggestions. You may feel embarrassed or think you are wasting everyones time, but it may not be nearly as bad as you think. Plus there may be things you can do, or ways the class can be structured, so everyone can all work on their own issues at the same time.
Well girl, thank god you seen, read, & replied!!!!! Was gonna hint to you in one of these posts. I have not done corrections b/c I think of you & your videos of training methods. Do you use any form of, opps, try again, or anything with either of your girls? I did have 1 trainer out of 3 here say, do say something so they get they did wrong. Skyrah is not what I would call a hard dog. She does not like if you do get at her so, a soft side to a degree. For this reason, have not wanted to shut her fun down.

I have done all you mentioned above, but use the clicker at class or whip out that tug enough. I train so a bit diff around a group also. 8/

I know all so new. Just hoping we gain that team partnership. She just goes agility contact A.D.D on me, HA!
Did you see me sayin, trainer holding down one end of teeter while Skyrah up on hind legs tryin to pull other end down. Oh lord, people in that class & trainer just shook their heads & laughed!

I hope & pray I gain that brain, that brain that earned her CGC at 15 months old. She has it in her focus & control wise, she has just lost it to a degree in this class. 8/

Thanks again MLR for your advice & all that has taken the time to reply. 8)
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Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."

Last edited by LuvourGSDs; 11-14-2012 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:37 AM   #32 (permalink)
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For agility, I just really don't like anything that is looked at as a 'correction' around the equipment unless it's really a life or death/safety issue (like dog keeps tearing off to visit White Fang the killer dog in class).

So especially for my younger dogs, I really work on my timing and figuring how I can get my pup to do something RIGHT so I can mark it and reward. The clicker really really helps me because it improves my timing and makes class/learning much clearer in the learning phases. For learning new and harder things like proper equipment (2on/2off) performance or wrapping around a jump or getting the entry (or exit) on the weave poles.

It seems to help if I start of with TONS of marking/rewards when initially starting classes (hungry dog with REAL treats) so my dog is learning the rewards only come from me, they come fast enough before my dog gets bored and looks for their own fun (running off an across the room suddenly also helps with this ) , and I ignore and do NOT treat/reward for all the crap they may offer that I do not want.

Other big help for boredom is not standing around the entire hour with my leashed dog connected to me, and brief bouts on the equipment. I take a crate to class and if I am not working with my dog, she is crated.

This is a massive help (hey, I did this before Susan Garrett's crate games!) because they learn to chill and relax when it is not their turn, and I am SO much more able to pay attention and learn from the other dogs/handlers/instructor when my dog is put away. I don't even stand near the crate most of the time (sometimes have to cover it with a blanket if they choose to not chill ).

When it is near our turn it's all WHOOHOO WE are on our way! So whether I release the beast and we tug to where we start, or just milk out treats from my fist as we go to where we need to go in the room (reward for staying right with me). All happy happy fun fun fun when we are 'working' and then I put them away when we are done.

This is a huge help to make it clearer WHEN we are working (and they need to pay attention) and not. Plus they are more excited about me ( I just released them) what I've got (treat/toy) cause they were just a bit bored in the crate, and 'the job' is more fun cause they are in the right mindset!

We have to remember, that because agility is ultimately and OFF leash activity we want our dogs to tear around doing joyously taking direction from us............ a ton of 'agility' is just our dogs learning to look/listen/get direction from us cause they WANT to. When we slide down the slippery slope of they HAVE to do stuff on an agility course this adds the stress and nonjoyous behaviors that are almost impossible to break later.

I really do recommend those short training tabs you can just leave on your dogs collar in class and when they are in the crate. Sometimes it's nice to have a bit of a handle to hold but then you can just drop it and quickly move on with out having to fumble and futz and waste time with a regular leash.

Leerburg has one I like that you can attach a leash to (or not). Leerburg | Leather Pull Tab

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Old 11-15-2012, 10:15 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Thanks again MLR. 8)

That's where is sucks, I have done so much focus work with her & her focus is awesome. All goodies have came from me. Sucks b/c when turned loose her focus or direction has went right out the window at class. She wants to go play on the things we have trained more at home. She has a great 2o2o. 8)

I started her up in classes b/c mainly wanted to see where we were at away from home training before we showed as I hoped not to get a A.D.D. dog out on a course at a show. Was planning on showing her come later spring. She will be 2 by then.

I hope through this winter to also do some building renting time to try to gain that "wanna do, do, do" brain. I love she so loves, do not want to kill that, but part of me also feels like I am a bad person for not getting at her for her silly things. Like people stated here to correct. I say, no to that, but feel I have a unfocused dog, when her obed focus is great. She is just losing it in class. 8/

On tabs, got them. I worried there about them knocking the bar or just hanging down. You sayin, take it on & off like a lead? Me, I would just leave on.

Why do you think this trainer did not want me to go grab her when she was doin her thing? I did not think anything of it when I go grab her, but since told not to, thinkin b/c sends neg to the dog? I will ask trainer on this.

Also, you have never gave any kind of a word that they did not do correct, like opps, etc? A non harsh word?

Thanks so much again!
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Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:32 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Thanks again MLR. 8)

I started her up in classes b/c mainly wanted to see where we were at away from home training before we showed as I hoped not to get a A.D.D. dog out on a course at a show. Was planning on showing her come later spring. She will be 2 by then.

On tabs, got them. I worried there about them knocking the bar or just hanging down. You sayin, take it on & off like a lead? Me, I would just leave on.

Why do you think this trainer did not want me to go grab her when she was doin her thing? I did not think anything of it when I go grab her, but since told not to, thinkin b/c sends neg to the dog? I will ask trainer on this.

Also, you have never gave any kind of a word that they did not do correct, like opps, etc? A non harsh word?

Thanks so much again!
The reason I recommend group classes is because of EXACTLY the situation you are seeing. My perfect dogs in my yard/home seem to lose their minds and go deaf in other situations! Since trials are more similar to classes, it help me to work through the issues in class so they are less at trials.

I WOULD leave the tab on in class. Have to be careful and pay attention but I've never had the tab catch on anything.

The reason I like the tab is I could quickly go over to get my dog and take the tab but just more of a management (now I've go you ) type of thing to get the attention back to me and not whatever seemed more interesting. I also think that grabbing the tab to hold them and redirect is less 'traumatic' than when I have to grab the collar and maybe get some fur at the same time. I want to be clear I don't want something, but I don't need it to be an actual forceful thing.

IF my dog keeps leaving to go over to play with another dog, that is not AGILITY to me, so I would possibly be a bit more strict/negative about that with a 'leave it'. (though sometimes if I just can step between the 2 dogs and split them up it gets the point across too) Leaving me to go play with another dog isn't right for agility or life so needs to be addressed. Immediately after this 'leave it' though I'd get into some kind of behavior to click/reward to reinforce the I AM THE MOST FUN THING IN THE ROOM (or use the tug toy).

I do have a word like 'oops' but use a neutral tone with that and then immediately I have to think to figure out how to make sure she does it right then next time. Setting them up to succeed but I need to have them keep wanting to try (and try and try). So breaking things down to make them easier and smaller pieces is important.

Some of this will just get better with time and your consistancy. These smart dogs want to try to get away with new things they make up that MAY make you happy and earn a reward (whether from you or just that it makes them happy without you ). So the 'bad' behaviors will start to extinguish on their own when you don't reward them but only things that you are a part of....

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Old 11-15-2012, 11:00 AM   #35 (permalink)
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LOL, I am praying so! Smart girlie she is! I think this new trainer thought we have done no focus work since my dog was a goof. Told me to put on lead, walk around, & try to get her to watch & treat, lol, gotz it. She took her from me & seen that, said, smart girl. Well, focus off lead with BIG distractions, well...... 8/
Will keep ya posted!
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Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:14 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Woo, well this week went much better. No tab used, but lots of treats & tug here in there. She was rather distracted by zoomie dogs as class was spit into two & dogs on the other side would get her attention. 8/ Darn GSDs & that prey drive, lol Cannot wait to fully connect as a team. 8)
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Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:12 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Woo, well this week went much better. No tab used, but lots of treats & tug here in there. She was rather distracted by zoomie dogs as class was spit into two & dogs on the other side would get her attention. 8/ Darn GSDs & that prey drive, lol Cannot wait to fully connect as a team. 8)
I think if you are consistant and keep up with the hungry dog/yummy treats, game is still the same when in any new place.......... you'll see improvements every week.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:36 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Thanks. Paws crossed. Her thing now is, a few times she went running over to other dogs, errr, bad girlie. She wants to go check them out, but, as I know, not all dogs are fond of this & gonna get her in trouble. 8/ She will sometimes focus on them if they are havin more excitement & running when we are split into 2 groups. I know I need to work on that engagement during them times, but can be hard at times. 8/

I am pretty consistant & have always tried to stick by that method. 8) Sure helps!
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Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:46 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Thanks. Paws crossed. Her thing now is, a few times she went running over to other dogs, errr, bad girlie. She wants to go check them out, but, as I know, not all dogs are fond of this & gonna get her in trouble. 8/ She will sometimes focus on them if they are havin more excitement & running when we are split into 2 groups. I know I need to work on that engagement during them times, but can be hard at times. 8/

I am pretty consistant & have always tried to stick by that method. 8) Sure helps!
I'm really surprised at your trainer and class. Allowing dogs off lead that aren't in full control and can run over to other dogs? That is crazy. If I was the other owner I'd be livid! A huge GSD is running over to my dog while I'm trying to work with my dog. This is not only dangerous, its distracting for the other dog. In my opinion it is way too early to split them into two groups in order to "simulate" the show environment. These are green dogs that need to be working on focus, not getting more distractions thrown at them.

How big is your class? As great as your trainer is, if this class has any more than 8 dogs in it I don't see what the point is. Agility should be a one dog at a time thing, maybe different dogs can work different obstacles but they have to be kept under control. In my class we have 4 dogs. We go into the "ring" one at a time and try to run the course, work an obstacle a few times that we're having trouble with, and then give the next dog a turn. All 4 dogs are green, and "lose their mind" when they're running the course, so its not beneficial to anyone to have more than one in there at a time.

I'm sorry if I sound condescending, but knowing your dog is having these issues, and allowing it to run up to another dog, is just plain wrong, on your part but mainly on your trainer's part. I have a GSD as well...but unless I knew you and your dog, I'd be really pissed if your dog ran up to mine while I was working.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:41 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I'm really surprised at your trainer and class. Allowing dogs off lead that aren't in full control and can run over to other dogs? That is crazy. If I was the other owner I'd be livid! A huge GSD is running over to my dog while I'm trying to work with my dog. This is not only dangerous, its distracting for the other dog. In my opinion it is way too early to split them into two groups in order to "simulate" the show environment. These are green dogs that need to be working on focus, not getting more distractions thrown at them.

How big is your class? As great as your trainer is, if this class has any more than 8 dogs in it I don't see what the point is. Agility should be a one dog at a time thing, maybe different dogs can work different obstacles but they have to be kept under control. In my class we have 4 dogs. We go into the "ring" one at a time and try to run the course, work an obstacle a few times that we're having trouble with, and then give the next dog a turn. All 4 dogs are green, and "lose their mind" when they're running the course, so its not beneficial to anyone to have more than one in there at a time.

I'm sorry if I sound condescending, but knowing your dog is having these issues, and allowing it to run up to another dog, is just plain wrong, on your part but mainly on your trainer's part. I have a GSD as well...but unless I knew you and your dog, I'd be really pissed if your dog ran up to mine while I was working.
Yes, I understand your concern & that is an issue I would like to stop/prevent! Not sure why or what her deal is other than wanting to go check them out? She has been in classes (obed) since 13 wks & still to this day obed wise & we have playtime in there. While working in there, which is not running around, she is super focused & does not move if in a down/stay, etc.

This agility class is around 6-7 dogs & handlers with 2 trainers & we split up into 2 groups & rotate so, all on the course, but half on one side. She is not always darting, but does at times. Not sure if herding deal or what. I have been working on her focus in this kind of class setting. I know when she left me Mon at class, I downed her from across the room & she did just wonderful for me & I walked up to clip her back up. She has a brain & can be super focused when she wants. I know a couple of my older GSDs would not be fond of a dog running up to them so, I understand we need to work on this.

She is just a happy friendly young adult female. 8/ My goal with her was to socialize her around other breeds as much as possible, granted, she has played with way more GSDs.

Ok, thanks for your opinion once again.
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Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
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