Classes & that puppy brain....... - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-13-2012, 10:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
wildo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,417
Default

BTW- if you're sequencing and she's visiting off course contacts, I'd wonder if the behavior is reproducible in OTHER (non agility) new environments. What if you take a travel plank to a park and do some contact work there. Does she blow off work to visit the travel plank? Surely this isn't only related to your agility training facility specifically, right? That's why I think you can grow the behavior elsewhere.
__________________
Willy

C-ATCH Pimg - DOB: 2/06, UJJ (x2), HIT, CA, CGC
High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training
wildo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-13-2012, 11:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
LuvourGSDs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 5,677
Default

Willy, I thank ya for your time, advice, & wishing to help. I need to also remind myself, this is new for her, been doing training at home plus still a pup somewhat. This is just class 4 with a new trainer. Learning way more in depth agility stuff than I ever was shown when I did take class a couple yrs ago with a old very green (imo) trainer.

Not make excuses, but just new to her (& I really) & diff than going to obed classes.

We are inside, nice open building, with turf. Lots of treats has been on the table & floor I'm sure at points as her nose got the best of her also last night. We do keep on lead till our turn & then back on lead. They have us working a few pieces of equipment. Last night was one or two jump lead outs standing in front of jump facing the dog, then trying to push toward another jump to tunnel, ect. I know I need to train, train, jumps now more with her.

Agility or any dog related things you want to do with your dog is hard to find around here. I travel to go to this class. You ask in that area about Rally classes, etc & nothing. Just hard to find places anymore. Heck, Sch clubs are a nightmare to find!

Anyway, I know our recall needs work under high distractions for sure. I have done all R+ with her & do feel she has a soft side to a degree so, afraid on shutting her down, but do want her doing on my terms! This trainer did not want me to try to go grab her. She was not running zoomies all over, just to dog walk or stuff she has trained on more.

On ph trying to type this so, harder to do so a bit. Hoping all makes sense.
__________________
~Jen~

Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
LuvourGSDs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 11:19 AM   #13 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
martemchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,345
Default

I don't really know how agility people do it but I made sure my dog's obedience was spot on before getting him fully into agility training. 19 months...not really a puppy anymore. By a year and a half you should be able to work the dog without getting that distracted. I kind of understand introducing agility equipment to your dog at a young age, but my current trainer has a 7 month old that she can't control and she takes some time after class to introduce equipment/do some jumping but when she takes her our during class the dog is way too distracted to concentrate and there is absolutely no recall so she really limits that time.

I know you said you've done obedience work and it seems that its just agility where your dog loses her mind, but why not throw in obedience exercises while you're on the agility field? Just simple ones...without obstacles being involved at first and then throw in obstacles.

Sorry the whole "she's only 19 months" is getting to me. My dog is 28 months and I don't let him get away with anything, and haven't since he was over a year old. If you keep throwing their age into it, the question is when does it end? By 19 months its kind of scary knowing your dog doesn't have solid recall, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad about your training but its just not safe at the end of the day. I think wildo had a great suggestion...keep her on leash. But I'd also focus a bit more on obedience.
martemchik is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 11:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
wildo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,417
Default

Ha! Look at all those agility titles in your signature- I think you have to give yourself more credit than "Learning way more in depth agility stuff than I ever was shown[before]!"

I agree with you on a lot of things you wrote- still a pup, nose gets the better of her, etc. I've taught Pimg how to work around food distractions and regularly work her with a plate of treats right in front of her face. Even still, last Thursday in class as I released her off the table her nose caught a treat someone dropped and she stopped to sniff... You know, they aren't robots and sometimes we (or me, at least) can forget that. However, seeing behavior like this DOES allow us to be conscious of it and make a plan to address. For Pimg, I'll be working on recalling her PASSED high value treats on the floor in front of her. Pushing her training of leaving food distractions.

If you're just doing basic jump sequencing where a dogwalk just happens to be 60 feet away in the facility and your pup (is this Skyrah?) just happens to be heading over there- then I guess I'd have to second the suggestion to rent the facility for 30mins or so and work some recall work. I do still think I'd do simple stimulation control-- work far enough away so that the dogwalk doesn't influence her recall. Then move 10' closer and try again, building up the ability to work right next to the DW.
__________________
Willy

C-ATCH Pimg - DOB: 2/06, UJJ (x2), HIT, CA, CGC
High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training
wildo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 11:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
LuvourGSDs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 5,677
Default

Thanks Willy! We try.... 8)

Yep, recalls off high distractions has been all my crews downfall & hard to train, esp with deer! I know more time & work needs done in that dept. If wasn't for agility equpiment & ruining fun in that dept, I would correct. This is a hard one for me as I want to, but do not want to bring neg with agility. Why asking here.

I do not want a robot dog, but not one that blows me off to go do what she wishes either. That's why I am in agility, for FUN! I see so many at shows with it seems little obed skills, pulls owner on lead. Some like this, keeps the drive I guess. I prob ruined Skyrah's drive to a degree with since day one obed stuff, but I like a dog with manners.

Ok, not a pup, but been told these lines are slow to mature.
__________________
~Jen~

Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
LuvourGSDs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 11:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
LuvourGSDs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 5,677
Default

Willy, btw, do not know all that technical stuff like you.
__________________
~Jen~

Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
LuvourGSDs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 12:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
wildo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,417
Default

There was a thread just recently about CM getting bit by a dog and as usual it turned into a R+ vs Aversive training debate. Someone mentioned in there that "NOBODY" was willing to say how they'd correct the behavior without aversives. My opinion is that "somebody" just isn't interested in listening/reading what was written. I absolutely reject the thought that the only way to correct the problem you're seeing is through aversive conditioning.

Stimulation control is key, in my opinion. You would NEVER put a dog in a room full of cats and expect them to hold a stay without ever training it. Never. What you would do is work the dog in a very non-distracting environment (like your bathroom) on holding a stay with a small distraction, say, a treat thrown in their direction. Then you might increase the challenge by working in your living room where there are more things to investigate (like, your husband watching TV or something). Then you might work outside in the backyard. Then you might bring it back inside to the living room and add a singular cat walking by. Then you might head to a pet store where you can work in a new environment around a single cat. etc, etc, etc. It's about CONTROLLING the environment, controlling access to reinforcement. THAT is how you train with clarity. You build behavior from small, easily repeatable criteria and add to your criteria once your dog shows understanding at least 80% of the time.

This is no different. The criteria is simple: "when on the agility field, you come in my direction when I call your name." You work well away from contact equipment and get 80% success. Then you move 10' closer and try again. If it proves to much, you simply collect your dog and move back a bit. Clearly the contacts were too stimulating. The nice thing about your issue is that you CAN use the contacts as a very high value reward. Get four of five really nice recalls far away under low stim, and then send to the contacts as a great reward.

Anyway, that's how I would do it. No aversives necessary.
__________________
Willy

C-ATCH Pimg - DOB: 2/06, UJJ (x2), HIT, CA, CGC
High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training
wildo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 12:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
LuvourGSDs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 5,677
Default

Thanks Willy. We train at obed class "on lead" with pretty high, many dog distractions, many newbie people & she has done wonderful there. Holds her down stays, etc. Just so bummed she has turned in a dog in a candy store at agility class. 8/
__________________
~Jen~

Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
LuvourGSDs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
martemchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,345
Default

Not sure if you could've done anything to her drive...it was probably like that from the get go, I've never seen obedience really kill drive unless you're really hardcore in the aversion methods and more pet than working training. I'm assuming she's just always been the way she is. If you have noticed that a correction tends to shut her down a little, its just her, nothing you did previously.

I was a little weary commenting on this thread after seeing all the agility titles behind your first dog's name as well...not sure why you're not more confident. You're definitely more qualified to comment on any agility stuff than I am! But I do like obedience, and the recall is the number one command I do not give any leeway on. Trust me...I'm having the same issues as you are when it comes to agility. It's way more fun than obedience and I can definitely see much less focus during agility class than while doing obedience.

Another idea I have for you is playing tug. Does your dog love a certain toy? A ball maybe? Just always have it on you...as a reward but also as a way to get your dog under control and to you. I know once I take out my boy's favorite tug he's charging at me at full speed and I get ultimate focus. I use it as a reward for something great or difficult...like completing 6 weaves in a row. If he's distracted at a dog park, I pull that thing out, and he's right in front of me waiting to play.

She looks like a beautiful working dog though, I think you'll definitely get through this and get even more titles than that first dog has.
martemchik is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-13-2012, 01:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
LuvourGSDs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OH
Posts: 5,677
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
Not sure if you could've done anything to her drive...it was probably like that from the get go, I've never seen obedience really kill drive unless you're really hardcore in the aversion methods and more pet than working training. I'm assuming she's just always been the way she is. If you have noticed that a correction tends to shut her down a little, its just her, nothing you did previously.

I was a little weary commenting on this thread after seeing all the agility titles behind your first dog's name as well...not sure why you're not more confident. You're definitely more qualified to comment on any agility stuff than I am! But I do like obedience, and the recall is the number one command I do not give any leeway on. Trust me...I'm having the same issues as you are when it comes to agility. It's way more fun than obedience and I can definitely see much less focus during agility class than while doing obedience.

Another idea I have for you is playing tug. Does your dog love a certain toy? A ball maybe? Just always have it on you...as a reward but also as a way to get your dog under control and to you. I know once I take out my boy's favorite tug he's charging at me at full speed and I get ultimate focus. I use it as a reward for something great or difficult...like completing 6 weaves in a row. If he's distracted at a dog park, I pull that thing out, and he's right in front of me waiting to play.

She looks like a beautiful working dog though, I think you'll definitely get through this and get even more titles than that first dog has.
I will post later to this via computer. I now have lost 2 long a** replies via my phone! Errrrrr
__________________
~Jen~

Sable~ GSD NJP, OJP, NAP, NAJ, NA, TN-N, NAC, NJC, CGC
Shadow~ BGSD *Adopted* RN, CGC
Storm~ GSD RA, TN-N, CGC
Skyrah~ GSD, CGC

"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
LuvourGSDs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:01 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com