Need agility help

[margielummus]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site, but have been reading all the information that everyone has posted.. it has been very informative.

I have been doing agility with my 3-year-old GSD Nike since about July. Took a beginner course then and have been hooked on it since. I have had a blast, but I am not sure that Nike has enjoyed it.

We went to our first trial this past weekend, ASCA, and we did not do very good at all. Nike seemed to be okay, very relaxed, and ready to do it, but when we stepped into the ring she ran past all the obsticles and went straight for the tunnels, but with no excitement, and then I was asked to leave the ring. My trainer was there and she told me that I need to work on getting her motivated and destressed (she said she was stressed out)... HMMM. Guess I didn't realize this.

We work on weaves and jumps at home and she is flying through them, but as soon as we go the training...she shuts down and is very slow and unmotivated.

She loves any kind of a ball, but can I use this at a trial? I have asked my trainer for advice, but I feel like she has given up on me a bit (and I am almost there too), but I really don't want to stop doing agility with Nike. Just need some help in getting her/me motivated.

Any advice that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Margie Lummus

[wildo]

Welcome to the forum, Margie!

I would take a look at Premack's principle, which states that more likely behaviors reinforce less likely behaviors. Susan Garrett bases the majority of her training on Premack's principle, though she refers to it as "transfer of value."

You stated that your dog loves the ball, but you can't use it in the trial. I would posit that with proper application of Premack's principle, you absolutely can transfer the drive for the ball into the drive for agility equipment. Since you stated that your dog took off for the tunnels first (off course), your dog is telling you that in that crazy environment, the tunnels hold the most value. Therefore I would start with tunnel training.

Get your dog in an excited, aroused stated though tugging or ball play. Be sure the dog is at peak arousal without being "too aroused to respond [a T.A.R moment]." Next, send your dog through the tunnel and throw the ball. The goal is to establish an average response from your dog. If at first she walks through the tunnel rather slowly- then that is your average best response. Nothing wrong with that. The real key is to not reinforce anything that is below that average response. For example, if Nike is just trotting through the tunnel 80% of the time, then when she chooses to simply walk through the tunnel- she earns no reinforcement. That less-than-average response should not be reinforced. What happens is that Nike will realize quickly that if she wants to play with that ball, she needs to offer average or better responses. This is classical conditioning using Premack's principle.

After you do all that and you have a great tunnel performance, try mixing it up with other agility equipment. You can build drive for any piece of agility like this. You are transferring the value of the ball into the value for agility.

Finally, I'd recommend you check out Crate Games, as they are the essential implementation of Premack's principle and a great foundation for building drive. If you build value for the crate, then you can build value for drive into the crate. If you have drive into the crate, then you can build drive for things placed between two crates, like an agility jump. Pretty cool, huh?

[wildo]

Oh- the other thing I wanted to mention is that you should be training in multiple environments. The standard example of "my dog sits perfectly when I ask him to sit in my house, but as soon as we go outside- he never sits on command!" is proof of this. Dogs don't typically generalize behavior well and therefore you need to train in as many new habitats as possible. This will ensure that when you walk into that agility ring, the environment itself is of no consequence. The behavior has been reinforced in many, many environments. Susan Garrett (yes, I'm a fan... what can I say?) covers her training philosophy of D.A.S.H (desire, accuracy, speed, and habitat) in Shaping Success. If you're into agility at all, Shaping Success is an awesome read. Not only is it packed full of training games for agility, it is also just a well written story of her success with a very difficult dog, Buzz.

[gsdheeler]

If you've been training since July, that's 6+ Months, that's not alot of time training, and going into your first trial and having a very green dog do the "Zoomie tunnel sucker thing" is not suprizing.
If you have the chance to train in differant areas take it. Training show n go s are great training. I was just at one yesterday and my 2 y old girl (We've been training for about 18 months) had a blast, she ran her own course BUT she had a blast, I know we are not ready to trial. I've found if a dog is stressed due to a new enviroment or just the simple fact they are not sure what to do, they either slow down or get the zoomies, it happens, you just need to work thru it.

[Heidij]

If your dog loves doing things at home, but not other places I would have to say that it probably isn't a drive issue. It sounds like a socialization problem. If your trainer seems to think the dog is stressed, and he/she has the experience to say so, I would consider two possibilities... You are stressed and it's traveling to the dog or your dog isn't to excited about new places. I would gather from the information you gave it is probably a little bit you and a little more your dog. Try this... Get your dog playing some good motivational tug (Michael Ellis has a video on tug, great resource). This will allow you to get your dogs drive up... Then go to new places and play. This will teach the dog that mew places are fun. Go to your training ring and just play around all the obstacles, then add people around the area. Keep In mind that the whole goal is to associate large groups of people near the obstacles with a positive response. If at all possible, ask if you can go through the exercise as the last person in the trial as a non-competitor so your dog can just run the obstacles one at a time with a large crowd. If your trainer gave up, then tell them you think so. They may not have some it knowingly or they did, in which case you should find a new one.
Dogs react to crowd emotion as well, so a nervous crowd may have an effect.
Keep at it though. If your dog enjoys it at home, then you can teach your dog
To like it anywhere

[MaggieRoseLee]

If she loves toys then that's a huge help. Tugging is better than chasing a ball, and many agility tug toys have a ball on them so you can do both!

It seems like her behavior is environmental, so I agree you may want to train 'play' (and then that AGILITY is play) in different locations. Downtown? Play tug. In front of Walmart? Play tug.

If you have trials in your area, you can take your dog and do your trial setup, but just volunteer (so you don't waste your entry fee) BUT take your pup out a few times to walk around AND PLAY TUG around the rings (just not at the entry/exit). Additionally, you can use the practice jumps to play tug and 'do agility' for brief times (make sure no one wants to use the jump but if they are setting up the ring for the next course you shouldn't have any conflicts).

I'd also break down class with more rewards and fun if you can. REAL treats with a hungry dog. And figure out a way to play before, during, after a run. If this means you do LESS of a course, but use your time to ramp your dog up, then that's what I would do.

Can you change classes and go back to a beginner/beginner class? That way there are shorter/easier sequences so it's easier to put the toy/treats back in.

Are there other clubs/classes in the area you can go to for awhile so it's in a NEW place with a different trainer and set of eyes to help?

[margielummus]

Thank you all for the words of advice!!!

I do have one question though for gsdhealer, what is a show n go? I have never heard of that. I live in a fairly small town, most trials and such are about 1 hour to more away (I don't mind the 1 hour, but just don't want to be travelling forever).

I have class tonight, so I will test some of these things and see what happens.

Thanks again.... I will be back, and I am sure I will have tons more questions.

I am also going to talk to my trainer tonight to see if she has any words of wisdom (or if she has completely given up on me).

Margie

[wildo]

A show-n-go is a pre-trial, usual held at the trial location. I've only ever heard of it in the obedience/rally world- never in agility, but that is not to say it doesn't exist in agility. The idea is that you go to the trial location some time before the trial (weeks) and pay to do a practice run. There is usually an expert there (at least in obedience) to tell you how to tighten up your lines and give you general advice. I think the idea is 1) to get in some practice for your dog at the show location, and 2) to get advice from a pro.

[EDIT]- To be clear- there is no judging/titling/qualifying at a Show-N-Go.

[margielummus]

Thanks Willy....

That makes a lot of sense to me. I am still racking my brain to come up with some ideas. I did find a training facility that is about the same distance that I am driving. I might try to switch it up a bit (waiting to hear back from them). Maybe another set of eyes/ideas/anything can help us move through this block in the road.

I am really not worried about judging, titling, or any of that stuff right now (although I would like to get there eventually), I just want to get her over her fear/anxiety of her surroundings. I really do enjoy doing agility and I think Nike likes it too... just have to get her to realize it!!!

Thanks for all the great info!!! You guys are wonderful.

Margie

[MaggieRoseLee]

Since I have to drive over an hour to my classes and most trials are at least 2 hours a way.... I feel your pain but it's worth it

Also try to look around for clinics and seminars and such. I know that in my area there are different yahoo lists and facebook pages that post info. Top trainers go all over the USA (all over the world!) doing one and 2 day sessions. Great fun and amazing how a different eye can give helpful information. Heck, I've even planned vacations around a Turid Rugass seminar and other opportunities.

Good luck!