How to shape nose targeting?

[wildo]

In the video, you can see Pimg understands the concept of touching the target with her nose. But when the target is placed on the ground, she will touch with her feet rather than her nose nearly 85% of the time. I know I need her to nose target as keeping her head low will cause her to collect once we move this to the dogwalk or teeter. What do you guys think? What am I doing wrong?

YouTube - Nose Target

YouTube - Nose Target

[EDIT]- One thing I am definitely doing wrong is rewarding the foot touch. But how do I reset if she touches with her feet? Do I just physically move her foot off the target and wait for her to look in that direction. Literally shaping minute movements until we get to nose only? I mean- that makes sense, I guess my real question is if it is ok to physically move her foot off the target when she touches with her feet...

[TaraM1285]

I think you moved a little too fast from your hand to the floor. Try doing smaller increments to the floor. Then when you finally get to the floor, leave your hand on the target for several repetitions. I would try not to click/treat when she foot targets even if she nose targets at the same time. Only discrete nose touches without the foot touch get rewarded and hopefully you can extinguish that behavior.

I made a video of shaping the target and at about 2:30 I start moving toward the floor. You can see how I broke it down to very small increments. Keep in mind that this was already a trained behavior for Tara when I made the video, so I moved very fast through the different stages of training.

YouTube - Targeting - Foundation for 2on-2off Contacts

YouTube - Targeting - Foundation for 2on-2off Contacts

EDIT - I would just wait her out if she tries the foot target. It's shaping, you don't need to help her so much that you move her feet for her. If she gets really stuck, I think I would move the target rather than her foot.

[wildo]

Ah! I remember watching this video of yours! Lots of really good pointers here- thanks! We probably are moving a bit too fast on that.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Originally Posted by TaraM1285

I would try not to click/treat when she foot targets even if she nose targets at the same time. Only discrete nose touches without the foot touch get rewarded and hopefully you can extinguish that behavior.

That's what I'm thinking too. I had a really solid "touch" command for a nose bump to my palm before I started trying to transfer that to a object. I named it "target" when she did a nose bump to a plastic lid, or anything other than my hand, and got that pretty solid by moving the target around before slowly lowering it to the floor. I did not have any trouble with foot targeting, but I think it would be confusing to the dog if you're marking and rewarding her for doing both a nose and foot target at the same time, so if I were getting that behavior I'd do what Tara suggested and not rewarding her unless it's JUST a nose bump.

[wildo]

Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom

I think it would be confusing to the dog if you're marking and rewarding her for doing both a nose and foot target at the same time

I agree! Even I found it confusing, so I imagine Pimg was pretty confused as well. Isn't it amazing though that dogs are still able to figure out a solid ballpark guess of what we want- even when we are being utterly confusing? Amazing creatures!

[MaggieRoseLee]

I'd not use the plank you are training on until you get a reliable nose touch. Don't want to muddy the behavior.

Reward ON the target, see where TaraM1285 is holding the food when she gives it? We want the focus on 'the job' NOT so handler focused on us and the treat bag. In fact TaraM1285's entire video is wonderful, but keep in mind she had already trained the dog to 'target' so when I do it as a new behavior it'll be more training sessions (maybe) and that's fine!

This will also help your fingers from your treat 'shark'.

Unless you have some future behavior that needs the foot touch target, I would NEVER reward the foot touch any more. If she no longer gets a treat EVER when her feet touches it, then she'll work that out.

My biggest problem with clicker training is I don't take advantage of the main reason it works FOR THE DOG. We are NOT supposed to talk at all, or add the 'command' until they are 100%. Instead, we are SUPPOSED to be patient (huge issue with me), shut up, and try to figure out how we silently can use our brain to get them to connect the smaller behaviors to reach the final behavior we want.

So I can't add the word 'Target' until they are already doing it reliably! Cause if I have to add a 'verbal' it's cause they don't really get it on their own, instead they are NOT using their brain to work out the puzzle. They are WAITING for me to 'cheat' and give them a hint. We don't want the dog to be waiting for us, we want them to 'offer' on their own. We don't want to 'cheat'. We want the dog to be THINKING.

With that in mind, it forces me to stop talking (vast effort ) and forces me to break down a behavior into the smallest pieces so the dog keeps progressing and learning.

GOOD LUCK!

[wildo]

More great advice. Between everyone on this thread- I think I have the tools I need to succeed!