Punishment in Today's Dog Training (Agility Only? or not?)

[MaggieRoseLee]

Agility has to be fun, fun for us, fun for the dog. Otherwise, sniffing, slowing and avoidance along with all the other 'calming signals' rear their ugly head.

Great info to read from Susan Garrett:

http://www.agilityaddicts.net/agilityforum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=16240&start=30&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

You can give the dog info that they need to guess again and weren't right by using a 'non reward maker' NRM. This is NOT the word 'no'.

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2011/02/punishment-in-todays-dog-training/

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2011/02/what-is-ideal-meaning-of-a-nrm/

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2010/07/planning-to-fail-is-the-path-to-success/

How are people's experiences in their dog classes? Positive based or not so much?

[Emoore]

So what's the difference between a correction and a punishment? If Kopper bites Rocky on the tail and Rocky growls and puts Kopper's whole head in his mouth, is that correction or punishment? (I would consider having my head in Rocky's mouth punishment) Is it ok because a dog did it and it's ok for dogs to correct/punish another dog? Or should I punish the older dog for punishing the puppy? Wait a minute. . . .

[MaggieRoseLee]

Think the point of view is more with the human/dog relationship during 'training' rather than in general life skills.

Agressions and inappropriate behaviors may need a bit more intervention from our part as well as another dog. Though, truthfully, if my dogs respect me and know I don't put up with over the top agression, MY DOGS won't start it. Though I use management and vigilance when my dogs are together to head off issues before they get to the level that strong action needs to be taken.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by Emoore

So what's the difference between a correction and a punishment? If Kopper bites Rocky on the tail and Rocky growls and puts Kopper's whole head in his mouth, is that correction or punishment? (I would consider having my head in Rocky's mouth punishment) Is it ok because a dog did it and it's ok for dogs to correct/punish another dog? Or should I punish the older dog for punishing the puppy? Wait a minute. . . .

A very good question - what is the difference between punishment and correction?

Maybe the distinction is simply in the eye of the beholder? And your viewpoint?

[MaggieRoseLee]

[QUOTE=codmaster;2065917]A very good question - what is the difference between punishment and correction?

Maybe the distinction is simply in the eye of the beholder? And your viewpoint?[/QUOTE]

It would be a big help if you'd read some of the articles posted.

Both punishments and corrections will be avoided by dogs, and depending on the level used can end up with dogs shutting down and avoiding IN TRAINING.

I put this out for more in a training type of situation. Where we want our dogs to engage and want to learn with us. Exactly why everyone is confused is exactly why we have so many confused dogs that hate training with us, or learn really slowly causing alot of frustration for all.

Learning the difference and rarely using punishments/corrections in TRAINING is key.

[lanaw13]

It would be a big help if you'd read some of the articles posted.

.[/QUOTE]

Can you post a link please?

[codmaster]

[quote=MaggieRoseLee;2066108]

Originally Posted by codmaster

A very good question - what is the difference between punishment and correction?

Maybe the distinction is simply in the eye of the beholder? And your viewpoint?[/QUOTE]

It would be a big help if you'd read some of the articles posted. My deepest apologies to you!

Just a question, though (if you don't mind, of course!!!) - A big help to who? You? Me? An anonymous reader of your post? ??????

Both punishments and corrections will be avoided by dogs, and depending on the level used can end up with dogs shutting down and avoiding IN TRAINING.

I put this out for more in a training type of situation. Where we want our dogs to engage and want to learn with us.

Gee, I am really sorry - do you mean that I should read YOUR articles before posting anything? Do you mean that just for me, or do you mean everyone who responds and posts any message on this forum?

With all of that - I guess that you just forgot to answer the question, perhaps? Or maybe you answered it in one of the mysterious "articles" that I failed to read.

Just in case anyone else also forgot to read those "articles" - could you try to answer the question that elicited such an emotional response from you?

"what is the difference between punishment and correction?"

Please feel free to ignore my question again if you choose, of course, if you do decide to respond to this post.

I hope that it doesn't upset you more but i did have a question on what you meant by the following - "......dogs shutting down and avoiding IN TRAINING."
Just what are the dogs avoiding? I couldn't figure out what you meant by "IN TRAINING".

Thanks.

BTW, I happen to think of the distinction as one of degree and really don't see any difference in reality except for the connotation that a "punishment" is much harsher and bad for the dog and is often a term used by some dog trainers sometimes to refer to any type of correction given to a dog from a harsh leash correction all the way to even a verbal utterance like "No!".

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by lanaw13

Can you post a link please?

To the articles mentioned? They are in the first post of this thread.

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by codmaster

Gee, I am really sorry - do you mean that I should read YOUR articles before posting anything? Do you mean that just for me, or do you mean everyone who responds and posts any message on this forum?

MRL posted this thread with several articles related to punishment/corrections in terms of agility training (this thread is in the agility forum in case you didn't notice) so, yes, reading the articles posted would help you to understand and participate in this particular discussion.

[lanaw13]

my apologies, for some reason my mind read that wrong..... i was looking for a sticky