Starting 5 month old and contacts

[valreegrl]

Hopefully seasoned agility people can help me out.....

This March, puppy and myself will be starting our first agility class
This has been something I have wanted to get into for a long time and finally have a great partner!

At 20 weeks we have a great training foundation. Roxy is trained in voice/hand signals sit, down, touch, watch me, look, "with me" which is our heel, leave it, wait, to your place and stay (we have added distance/duration/distraction-we are at about 1 minute across the room but not out of sight with other dogs/people milling around). She also has some tricks thrown in there like paw, spin and fun with leave it by putting treats on her paws, head, etc just to keep things interesting. We have also worked with a target stick to begin ringing bells at the door.

Question: Where should I start in our training sessions before class begins, pertaining to agility skills?
Should we work on targeting/contacts for paw awareness? If so, should I start with stool work and begin hind end awareness as well? Any tips would be greatly appreciated

[TaraM1285]

Yes! Perch work is a great skill to start working on! Use a clicker and shape her to target the stool with her feet. Once she gets that down reward any back paw movement and work on turning in both directions.

Check out the end of MRL's video:

YouTube - Agility One Jump and Perch Training

YouTube - Agility One Jump and Perch Training

Here's another board member doing perch work:

YouTube - Laos Perch Work.mpg

YouTube - Laos Perch Work.mpg

You've already got a hand target and a target stick, you can also start working with a plastic lid target. Start by holding the target in your palm similar to how you would ask for a nose touch to your hand. Let her offer the touch and click/treat. As she understands the behavior with the plastic lid, work to holding the plastic lid between your thumb and forefinger (to dissociate it from your palm). Next vary the placement of the target so sometimes it is to her left sometimes to the right, above her head, below her head. As she gets better at targeting it below her head you can slowly move the target to the floor, and then once she can target on the floor you can start placing it away from you and sending her to it at short distances. Strong targeting skills will be really useful later!

[valreegrl]

Thanks Kristen!
I have seen the first video before and it's great.

As for plastic lid targeting, we have done this for "to your place" first using a large towel and have worked to her targeting just a wash cloth. Right now I can move it all over and ask her for a "to your place" and she will go over to the cloth and sit on it.
Is that what I am looking for?

We are going to begin perch work tonight.

I have to say she is a blast to work with. Her drive is awesome and she really enjoys working

[King&Skylar]

thanks for posting this, it helps me too! I'm starting in march too, with my 9 month old

[MaggieRoseLee]

'Target' training is different than 'to your place'. With targeting (at least in my classes) we want just a nose touch and then the dog can stand there and still look at me for the treat. It's kind of like teaching a nose/hand touch only with a round plastic target you can put it way 'over there' then send your dog off and away to it!

I just use a plastic lid (like sour cream lid? cream cheese lid?) hold it in one hand so close to the dog they can't hardly do anything but touch it with their nose, then I click treat. Again again again, then move it around again again again, the eventually it gets on the ground and I can send my dogs to it.

Will your dog still tug a tug toy with you and play in public? Good skill to have.

[TaraM1285]

Yup, exactly what MaggieRoseLee says - we use a nose touch as well. You don't want your dog to run to a place and sit, you want them to continue to drive forward with their head low, which is why we teach a nose target. Then we can use it to place at the end of a jump grid, for example, and they'll drive over the jumps to the target and keep their head low because they know the end behavior is a nose touch to the floor.

[LuvourGSDs]

Originally Posted by MaggieRoseLee

'Target' training is different than 'to your place'. With targeting (at least in my classes) we want just a nose touch and then the dog can stand there and still look at me for the treat. It's kind of like teaching a nose/hand touch only with a round plastic target you can put it way 'over there' then send your dog off and away to it!

I just use a plastic lid (like sour cream lid? cream cheese lid?) hold it in one hand so close to the dog they can't hardly do anything but touch it with their nose, then I click treat. Again again again, then move it around again again again, the eventually it gets on the ground and I can send my dogs to it.

Will your dog still tug a tug toy with you and play in public? Good skill to have.

Never have done this, well tried & stopped, but lost when it comes to fading the target out & they get it........... like at contacts, not sure how to do this ??????

Also tried the other day putting at the end of the weaves & they want to dart right past the weaves to get the treat on the lid & gave up on this method.

[TaraM1285]

Originally Posted by LuvourGSDs

Never have done this, well tried & stopped, but lost when it comes to fading the target out & they get it........... like at contacts, not sure how to do this ??????

Also tried the other day putting at the end of the weaves & they want to dart right past the weaves to get the treat on the lid & gave up on this method.

I'm going to take some video this week of our step-by-step approach to contact training with the target and will show how to fade it. The one biggest thing is that they really have to understand that nose touch to the target behavior before you fade otherwise you'll probably lose that part when you fade it. I cut my target to smaller and smaller sizes to fade it.

Also, with training a target this way, you should not have to put food on it for the dog to drive to it and inadvertently reward himself. I've seen people use the "bait the target" method and it only works if you or someone else is there to remove the food if the dog doesn't do the prior equipment, which in your case was the weaves. If you back up a bit and get a stronger target behavior, you could start placing after jumps, which might be a bit easier than weaves to start. You treat on the target only AFTER they go over the jumps AND nose touch the target.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by TaraM1285

Also, with training a target this way, you should not have to put food on it for the dog to drive to it and inadvertently reward himself. I've seen people use the "bait the target" method and it only works if you or someone else is there to remove the food if the dog doesn't do the prior equipment, which in your case was the weaves. If you back up a bit and get a stronger target behavior, you could start placing after jumps, which might be a bit easier than weaves to start. You treat on the target only AFTER they go over the jumps AND nose touch the target.

You shouldn't put the treat ON the lid, then you are just rewarding your dog for eating a treat and for MY dogs, they don't need to be rewarded for eating!!!

The behavior I want with targeting is my dogs nose touch the target. Then I click that behavior, THEN MY DOG GETS A TREAT!!!!

As mentioned, when you put the food ON the target, unless you are there to cover it with your hand if they don't perform the behavior, you aren't going to get what you want.

As far a fading the target on contact obstacles, I've heard it's best to start cutting the target down sizewise, smaller and smaller and smaller so you still get the nose touch down on the ground but the dog no longer needs the huge visual of the regular sized target to cue to when coming down into the position.

[valreegrl]

Great info!

She does play tug and we have begun using that as a reward and fading treats out in certain instances.
Last night we got to the point that she would "perch" with the tug as a reward.
Today we will work on rewarding the perch behavior for a longer duration.

Gotcha on the nose targeting. But I do have a question as to where it leads......
I can train nose targeting to a lid, and fading it out in size as that is how I trained "to your place" but where is the leader between targeting and contacts? They contact with paws correct?
Just want to gain perspective of where this leads to so I know how to best work it in.