GSDs in Agility- Preferred/Regular?

[wildo]

Every dog is unique, I get that. Some people may certainly be lucky enough to have a tremendously fast, agile, smart, cooperative dog as their first agility dog- and may go so far as being MACH titled, etc, etc. I suspect though, that this is probably not the norm. With most things in life, we tend to learn a lot with our "first" attempt at doing something- and commit a ton of mistakes in the process.

That said, I doubt that my GSD is going to come anywhere close to a MACH title, not to mention the amount of travel/trial time that would be involved. As such- does it really make any sense to jump her (especially at 5 years old) at the regular 24" height? Seems it would be a lot smarter and safer for her health to be jumping at 20" preferred.

What class do you guys participate at? Any advice of preferred vs regular?

(When I asked my trainer this question, she said it simply depended on the dog and what you want to do with the dog. Some people compete in regular simply because less people do it. Therefore they have a competitive advantage. This perspective doesn't appear to consider the health of the dog much- not to mention she has what appears to be a miniature sheltie and a jack russell terrier. Ha!)

[GSDElsa]

Well, I usually am not practicing a lot at 24" (keep in mind i have titles and this has thus far been a "fun thing" for us to do). Not sure how many people do...but I don't think running classes at 24" height is going to make much of a difference on wear and tear if you are not constantly running jumps at full height. Even then, I'm not sure 4" is going to make much of a difference when you're getting that high anyway.

[Elaine]

It depends on how well your dog jumps. If he's a good jumper, then jump at 24". If he's not a good jumper, then 20" would be better.

[wildo]

I don't know- I think that such perspectives don't shed a good light on it. For us humans, 4" more doesn't seem that much. But if you do the math on this, you would have something like the below:
____
My dog is 26" tall. In agility, she can jump at 20" in the preferred class, or 24" in the normal class. How much more substantial is the 4" for her relative to her body height- put in the perspective of my jump? I am 67" tall and can jump about 15" vertical. In the perspective of the 4" increase for my dog- what height would I have to jump to match that percentage increase?

So if my dog is jumping 20", I think we could say that is = 20/26 == 76.9% of her height.
If my dog is jumping 24", I think we could say that is = 24/26 == 92.3% of her body height, or a 92.3 - 76.9 == 15.4% increase.

If I am jumping 15", then we could say that is = 15/67 == 22.4% of my body height.

A comparable increase in my jump would be 22.4 + 15.4 = 37.8%
so-
x/67 = .378
x = .378 * 67
x = 25.3" (or a 10" increase in jump height - which is obviously substantial!)
____

From the dog's perspective- that 4" increase is comparable to a 10" increase for us. Imagine what it would take for you to be able to suddenly jump 10" higher than normal. I think it should be obvious that a 24" compared to a 20" jump would have much more impact on the dog's joints. If we aren't going to be able to compete at very high levels anyway, then why add the extra stress to her joints? I guess that's my perspective. I wondered if anyone else has ever considered such thoughts...

[Elaine]

I think you have made up your mind to jump in preferred. Nothing wrong with that.

Seriously, there are dogs that are good jumpers and jumping full height is nothing to them. Then there are the dogs that should be in preferred either due to age, poor jumping ability, or arthritis. Then there are the dogs that can't jump and sort of throw themselves over the jump and shouldn't jump at all.

[GSDElsa]

I think comparing humans to dogs is an apples to oranges comparison.

I think of it as a horse to dog comparison. Grand Prix jumpers aren't always jumping at 5'6". Jumpers at 4'6" don't, in my opinion, have any more adverse effects than those GP jumpers. Nor have I seen any more or less problems in horses who only jump 3'6". You occasionally school at the height you'll be competing at, but the majority of the work to prep for that is flatwork and lower jumps working on correct form and fitness.

I agree with Elaine--nothing wrong with either way. But I don't think that the height difference is going to have any less or more wear and tear on their bodies. I think it's going to be the amount and height you do when practicing as well as making sure they are properly warmed up and at the correct physical fitness levels to be jumping at said height.

[wildo]

Thanks for the info guys- that helps to clarify my perspective. I figured the height difference probably played a big long-term affect on the dogs health. Sounds like that might not actually be the case.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by Elaine

I think you have made up your mind to jump in preferred. Nothing wrong with that.

Seriously, there are dogs that are good jumpers and jumping full height is nothing to them. Then there are the dogs that should be in preferred either due to age, poor jumping ability, or arthritis. Then there are the dogs that can't jump and sort of throw themselves over the jump and shouldn't jump at all.

That's kind of my feeling. I watch my healthy dogs tear thru the woods at top speed. Jump on and off my bed (higher than 24") all day with no trouble. And so feel that ANY healthy and structurally fit dog of any breed can jump the current heights given in all the venues. Agility is a sport with some level of athleticism involved (for me too ) and with our breed supposed to be a 'working' breed it's not asking too much to expect them to easily jump their measured height.

Fact is, I've been in this long enough and seen enough fit and healthy GSD's to see that they easily can do their measured heights. As long as we keep them lean and fit, and they are PHYSICALLY built to do well, they actually excel and can beat many other breeds jumping the same height the same day.

Once again, I see our GSD's as a 'working' breed. If I had a Bassett Hound that's got an entirely different physical build, then that's something else. Or if I had an old dog that still wanted to play but that I knew was now having troubles physically, that also would be different.

I personally feel that to expect less of a breed that was invented to be so much.................... is a bit of a lower of expectations for all they CAN be if we expose them to the challenge.

In my area, the only GSD's jumping lower are mainly the breed dogs that structurally do have trouble on the course period, let alone on the jumps. And newbies to the sport who think it's easier for THEM (the human) to get their dog around a course with lower jumps. They usually have the goal to later on, when they have more confidence, then raising the jumps and going back to re-qualify and earn the regular legs.

[JakodaCD OA]

I don't see anything wrong with going into preferred especially if you've got a 5 year old, your just starting out, and you aren't going into it for that competative MACH

I also don't see anything wrong with doing 24"/regular heights.

When I started agility, we didn't have the option. My 26"/70# girl jumped 24. She wasn't a 'senior' so the other venue options of jumping a height lower wasn't an option either. She never had a problem and wasn't a "bar knocker", so I was comfortable with her jumping that height.

Further down the road, when I was trialing my aussie, and doing more nadac /cpe than akc..Nadac implimented a height change. I did not want to jump my 21" aussie @ 24", so I was able to drop her down a height to 20, then when she became a 'senior', I dropped her to 16. I most likely could have kept her at 20, but I noticed she had a heck of a better time at 16, & wasn't pushing herself so hard.

I also think the jumping is less of a problem than slamming those shoulders on the down contact of an aframe

[Guardyan]

I think it's important to consider your eventual goal. Do you want to work towards a MACH? A MACH is a large time commitment involving regular trialing. We live in an area where trials are few and far between. I know talented people that are earning MACHs on dogs that are 8-12 years old. These folks only trial in agility and they spend every free weekend at a trial, sometimes driving up to 10 hours each way. For us, running Preferred gives us a way to keep working towards a higher goal (PAX) while still having weekends available for obedience, herding, camping & hiking.

Another thing that influenced my decision to run Preferred was watching my sister's lab deteriorate in her old age. Years of hunt trials took their toll and Tani spent her last years in obvious discomfort. I want my dogs to be comfortable in their old age and running at a lower height is easier on their joints.

There seems to be this idea that dogs that run at 20" can't run at 24". This certainly isn't the case. I have a dog that jumps over the couch when she comes in, so she's definitely capable of jumping even 26" jumps. We run her Preferred for the reasons above. I guess my thinking is, if a MACH isn't your goal, why not run Preferred?