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A second bite and I'm terrified!

19K views 140 replies 60 participants last post by  scannergirl 
#1 ·
I'm terrified and sick to my stomach that I may lose Thor.

He's bitten the same guy he bit a few months back. AC was automatically called (I understand the need for this so am not complaining about it) and they will be back Thursday to discuss what must be done....either another 10 days of automatic quarantine or the worse possible scenario, they will take him. As this particular attack (and yes, let's call it what it was...an ATTACK) was unprovoked, I fear it will be the latter. I keep bursting into tears as I can't bear the thought.

I had both Freya and Thor out for their walks, both on leashes. I wanted to work on them being off-leash and coming when I called. I let Freya off first and let her romp, calling her two or three times to return to me. She was figuring it out nicely, so I leashed her again and released Thor. Same thing...he romped around but returned to me the first time I called him. I let him go again and he ran off down the road....then stopped! His ears pricked up, his hackles rose. I could see this even though I was a quarter of a block away. I called him, my eyes searching for what caught his interest. I know there is a pack of feral cats that live in the area and thought he might have seen one of them, though his hackles don't lift for them usually, just his interest is piqued. But Thor didn't come, nor did he move....he just stood there.

Then I saw George coming down his steps. I watched as Thor tensed and called to George to 'get back in the house'. Unfortunately, I was too far away for him to hear me. I called Thor again, but he just stood. You have to know I was racing towards him by this time, dragging Freya along, as I knew...I KNEW...what was going to happen. Thor, ever since the first time he bit George for what he perceived as a threat to me, has hated George. Even walking past his house, Thor glances at it, his ears up, his hackles often up as well, even though no one is around.

Sure enough, George reached his driveway and Thor took off, circling George and lunging at his legs. George started squealing and screaming and hitting out at Thor with a bag he had in his hand. I told him "Just stand still, George, don't move" but let's face it, even if he had heard me, it would have been hard to stand still when a 100 lb. shepherd is nipping at your legs. I called Thor again, told him "Leave it! Come!" and he started back towards me. George turned towards the house but half way back to me, Thor turned and ran back again. Fortunately, George had gotten to a safe place under the house and with a few barks, Thor finally listened to me and came back. I leashed him at once and wondered ' what do I say to him? how do I correct his behavior? will he even understand what I'm telling him if I say bad dog or no biting or anything?'

Besides, I was shaking so badly I could only be grateful that I had him leashed by that time. I finally reached George's house and as he was climbing the stairs to the door, I called, "Are you okay?" When he said, "Thor bit me again and ripped my pants" I blanched. I am surprised my legs held me up. He pulled up his pant leg and blood was dripping down. Deja vu!

I took both dogs home, got in my truck, drove back to George's and piled him in to take him to the doctor's....again. Fortunately, this time it was just some scratches and one small puncture so they cleaned him up, put on some antibiotic salve, gave him a prescription for antibiotics and I took him to the pharmacy and then home. Naturally, they called AC and the vet to check up on Thor's shots. I will pay for the prescriptions and whatever his medicare doesn't cover, plus a new pair of pants and socks, but that does not solve the problem.

The doctor tried to make me feel better with a little joking comment; i.e. "You have to keep these two out of the same playground." I know he was trying to make me feel better but I don't.

Thor doesn't bite anyone else. I've had strange men all over the house during the replacement of my heating system, Kat (my daughter) has friends in and out of the house all the time, we meet other neighbors all the time when out for walks, but Thor only goes for George. I don't know what to do and I'm sooooooo frightened that AC will see him as a vicious dog and want to put him down. Just typing those words make tears gush. He's NOT vicious! Dang, Seamus attacked him and he REACTED, he was not PROACTIVE in that event.

What's wrong with Thor? What do I tell the AC when they get here? I don't want them to take him but I fear they will. Even the problems with Seamus dim compared to this dilemma.
 
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#52 ·
Didn't read all the posts, but please consider that your dog didn't just bite - your dog went after a man - an attack.

I love my dogs, but people have reasonable right to be safe on their own property, public areas etc..

Your dog wasn't cornered, being threatened, hurt or in a strange situation.

IMHO, this make your dog a liability to others - and to you if someone sues you.

I know you want what's best for the dog, but wonder if you'll see his actions from the perspective of the man being attacked?

If you are allowed to keep him, and I were you, I think I really would look for a home for him with an experienced handler who knows how to evaluate and train him.
 
#53 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Diane, If you do get Lou to your place let me know......I'll drive down to see him too!!! Hang in there, I think back on how lucky I have been in the past, I know you will get through this and land on your feet....you're way to stubborn not to!
 
#54 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Originally Posted By: Skye'sMomFlexis are dangerous with any dog that runs or pulls hard. I have heard of them snapping and I heard of badly cut hands and legs from the lines when they are stretched out.
Originally Posted By: Susan FAgree here. Flexis are useless and dangerous for big dogs.
Flexis are not perfect but they are far from "useless." To be accurate, here's what my website says about them.
Quote: There are two types of retractable leashes available. One uses a string and the other uses a flat nylon strap as the leash. I recommend the latter as the first one can cause injuries, including rope burns and some even more serious. Be sure not to grab the line, with either type. If the dog takes off, you can get some burns on your hand. Use only the mechanism provided to stop and start the leash. If you wear shorts while you're training be sure not to let the leash rub against your leg. If the dog decides to take off running, you can get rope burns.

I recommend that you rig a loop of rope through the handle of the mechanism that will go around your wrist so that if the dog pulls the mechanism from your hand it's still attached to your wrist, just like a standard leash.
I only recommend the Flexi for teaching the early phase of the recall.
 
#59 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

I asked that those truly interested in the outcome to pm me but I decided it might be useful to anyone in my situation (and I KNOW I'm not alone in this type of situation) have the results so they can also know the possible outcomes.

Two ACO's visited the house yesterday. Thor defied all indications that he is vicious as he practically crawled in their laps to share kisses. *shakes head* Gotta wonder if he knew his fate was at stake. Although I know that both officers genuinely like Thor, the senior officer said at one point, "I now have to become neutral and talk to you from the officers' point of view." She then continued by telling me what would happen. Essentially it will be as follows:

...Thor is quarantined at home for 10 days.
...She will be filing a report with the county Dept. of Health and the county attorney and it will be up to them to decide whether he will be labeled a 'dangerous dog'.
...If he is, he will need to wear a muzzle whenever he is off the property.
...He will have to be on a leash at all times when outside the house.

Tho' she didn't specifically mention it, it was inferred that should anything like this last incident occur again, as a 'dangerous dog', there will be no further chances for him.

The good news is that they have found a trainer (one who specializes in training German Shepherds and Belgian Malinois) and they called her while at the house. I spoke to her briefly then, and for a longer time after they left. Thor will be going to board with her for a week to two weeks, then I will come up and train with him for an afternoon before taking him home. This will be followed up by weekly visits to her place until he receives his CGC certificate, which will weigh well with the Health Dept. and the ACO's.

She has suggested two things: One, that I bring George with me when I come to pick up Thor as she'd like to evaluate the interaction between the pair and see if there is someway to ameliorate their relationship. Two, she asked me to bring Seamus with me when I first bring Thor to her, again to evaluate Seamus and his interactions with Thor, and to determine if there is a way to resolve their differences....also to determine whether Seamus is salvageable.

I should point out that the senior ACO met Seamus and heard his story. She is extremely doubtful that he can come around in this environment, if any. She pointed out that he was only recently neutered, which means he's carried his testosterone around his entire life and is pretty much a territorial dog as a result...difficult to change at this age. She has offered to help if she can but advised that if he can't be helped, they could put him down, not something I'm willing to consider at this time. What was the point of rescuing him just to have it end that way but she points out that sometimes, that end is more peaceful for stressed dogs than living with the stress. NOTE that this was not the entire conversation so please, no jumping on my back. It was just the end result of a long conversation and meeting with Seamus.

So the fact that the trainer is also willing to evaluate Seamus and add her thoughts as to whether he is salvageable (in this home or any other) is a great help.

Bottom line....Thor is not going to be put down but is in strict quarantine for the next week until the ACO's return. After that, he will be leaving home for training and then there will be follow up training after that. Both George's and Seamus's relationship with Thor will be evaluated and repairs made, hopefully. George specifically told the ACO's on their visit to him that he does not want Thor taken from me, that he realizes there is a problem between him and Thor (possibly his own pheromones disturb Thor...kid you not, that's what he said) and I know he will be willing to come with me to the trainer's. Right now, I'm blessing the ACO's, the trainer, George, Thor and all the folks who understood this situation and gave me the strength and moral support to get through this.

For those who don't agree with this outcome, please spare yourself and me the bother of posting your feelings. It is what it is and all your disagreements are not going to change it. Things are positive right now and none of us need negativity.
 
#60 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Now, that's a small town community for you! They're involving everyone and working towards a positive outcome for everyone! They even found a trainer for you! That's really amazing. I'm so glad that everyone is willing to work together to help you and Thor succeed. And George is amazing! Wow!

It does make me nervous, all this talk about Seamus being "salvageable." From everything that you've said, he would benefit from being in a home without other dogs. That's not such a big deal.
 
#61 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Just a note-while it would be nice for us to be able to control who posts on our threads or not (and even what they say) we are not able to do so.

People on this site are generally good about providing good ideas and sometimes those come from things we may not want to hear. What is negativity to one may be a pretty good suggestion to another. I am sure people have gotten their initial responses out of their system.

But regardless-it's a pretty simple thing and once you open a post...watch out.


Glad they have a trainer in your area! That's good news!

The testosterone is in their systems for a while after neutering. It dissipates though. That's also good news.
 
#62 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Good news all the way around. You and Thor get what you need... structured help from a professional. This is a massive win/win, especially since they are willing to support you with Seamus as well. Take the second chance, run with it and don't look back.
 
#63 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Great news.
I hope they are wrong about Seamus. I thought he was doing pretty good with other people and dogs, just not Thor. I agree yours might not be the ideal home but hopefully he will find his niche.

Truely glad the meeting went so well.
 
#65 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Wonderful news! I am so glad you and Thor found a way to get the training you need.

A quick note about the responses to this thread. I went back and reread every single post. There were only one or two that seemed unnecessarily harsh. Almost everyone expressed sympathy to either you or Thor. Most everyone seemed to feel that you need to never let Thor off lease and to get professional training. That is what you are doing. I can't imagine that any posters are unhappy with the outcome of the AC meeting. It is what we were hoping for.
 
#66 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

I love small towns ~

Thank you for posting the outcome; keep us updated on how Thor and Seamus do.
 
#67 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Excellent news!!

As for Seamus, you have done a wonderful thing by rescuing him. I believe no one should judge you until they've walked a mile in your shoes, and if it comes down to that decision, make sure he gets a Happy Meal in the shade of his favorite tree, spend some time together before you say goodbye. Some dogs are not able to be saved, they will forever be a liability. Yes, some people can manage them better than others but if the dog is always battling the demons in his head, that can be just as bad- or worse than- battling a debilitating physical condition. Bottom line is that you've done your best and exhausted the alternatives, have given him a good life, and took the responsibility for ensuring he's safe and protected to the very end. You will have people disagree with you and agree with you, you may have people curse you out, but in the end YOU carry the full weight on your shoulders, no one else.

*hug* Keep us updated!
 
#68 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

If Thor can be rehabbed then Seamus can be rehabbed. Reread Seamus's thread. He's great with people and the only dog he is aggressive with is Thor. Diane has always been clear about this.
 
#69 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Thor is grounded!!
All can I say is I'm happy for you and your canine family.
 
#70 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Ruth, I hadn't been following the thread. If that's the only problem, that's actually quite normal for two males to fight. Sounds like Seamus is a great guy, especially if he's great with people! That's a blessing!
 
#71 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

She has suggested two things: One, that I bring George with me when I come to pick up Thor as she'd like to evaluate the interaction between the pair and see if there is someway to ameliorate their relationship.

That's excellent!!
I wonder what it is about George that bothers Thor. Is George disabled- has trouble walking in some way, or limping? Or maybe has a beard or wears big glasses? Just wondering.

Great news, though- you're VERY lucky!!
 
#72 ·
Diane, I know that there is a place in Manteo called Pupparatzi and if you call there she will give you the name of a local trainer. Granted, it is 60-90 minutes away, but that's how far I drive to Virginia for my puppy class. The Manteo trainer would have been closer for me, but I wanted the socialization aspect of PetSmart (lots of chaos, other dog breeds, etc) for her early education.
I'm sorry you are going through this, and I hope you can save the situation.
If I can help you in any way you know where I am.....
 
#73 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Diane, I am so happy that things have worked out as they did...I was so worried for you and Thor...

We have a wonderful 95% GSD girl who LOVED everyone...except men with black hair and beards...it was the most amazing thing...she never bit anyone but she sure did scare them. Totally caught us off guard.

You said that you rescued Thor from the shelter. Just wondering, could he have been absued?? Perhaps by a man that resembles George? Just a thought...

Again, I am THRILLED the way things turned out for you all...and Seamus is being checked out also...I am sending positive thoughts and prayers to you and the boys that all goes totally well for everyone concerned...

PLEASE, keep us posted on things...Judy
 
#74 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

I am very glad Thor gets another chance! Sounds like this trainer can really help you guys out. Good luck, Diane!!

For anyone unfamiliar with Thor and George's history I think what set things off wrong between Thor and George was an incident she posted about a while ago. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken on any part, Diane, I don't fully remember).

Things were perfectly fine until one day Diane was outside with Thor and George was doing some yard work. He was carrying an arm/handful of sticks when he and Diane stopped to talk, with Thor sitting by her side. George began to gesture animatedly while speaking, forgetting the sticks in his hand, resulting in him swinging the sticks at Diane. Thor mistook this for a threat and bit George's leg.

Ever since that happened, Thor has hated George with a passion (apparently). This is also the reason why George doesn't hate the dog and is so forgiving, as he feels like it's his fault for swinging the sticks and that the dog reacted as he should have by protecting his mom from a perceived threat.

I will try to find the post where she described exactly what happened.

Again, so glad you get to keep Thor!!
 
#75 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

Sorry, Diane- I posted after I read only the first page of this thread and did not have the whole story yet. I am still getting used to this forum.....
I am glad Dare is doing right by you.
 
#76 ·
Re: A second bite and I'm terrified! e-collar!

I am glad things are looking up for you and Thor and maybe Seamus too. I am so sorry that this forum has been hard on you but I really think that everyone said what they said with the best of intentions. Sometimes its easier to point out others faults and mistakes while "armchair quaterbacking". In a perfect world all of us would never have made any mistakes with our dogs and would have been born knowing exactly what to do and our next door neighbours would all be dog wisperers but in real life we ALL screw up. Maybe we are lucky and our mistakes don't cause AC to come to our homes but if you point out one dog handler, owner, or trainer that has never made any mistakes then you are pointing out a lier. It sounds like you are trying to do the very best and you need to give George a serious hug. the best of luck to you and your pups.
 
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