Can fear aggression be overcome?? - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-23-2008, 10:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,297
Default Can fear aggression be overcome??

I have a 15 mo. old and she is fear aggressive. Took her to the vet today and she was almost in the red zone(she was muzzled). She had to have ear check for infection and vet wouldn't even do both of them as Onyx was so upset. Does anyone have suggestions-one trainer I talked w/ suggested e-collar(she is bird/hunting dog trainer) but for fear aggression I don't think this is the way to go. Any help is appreciated.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-23-2008, 10:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
big_dog7777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,186
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

I do not have a ton of experience with fear aggression, but I do know that an e-collar will likely "blow up" a fear aggressive dog. LOTS of patience and socialization coupled with firm, fair leadership and handling WITHOUT CODDLING is in order. Whether or not you can overcome it will depend on her genetics. At her age, she will be in her most fearful stage, so that could be a good thing (meaning she is not really this bad). Others will post who have a ton of experience in this.
__________________
John
- Zahar vom Leerburg "Lowen"
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/521413.html
- Diesel vom Kriegershaus "Diesel" BH
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/399527.html
big_dog7777 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 10:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
The Rescues Rule Administrator
 
JeanKBBMMMAAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 23,709
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

It can go into remission-that's what I call it.

You can get the dog as confident as you can, give them good leadership, consistancy, have them as comfortable as possible and allow them to be the best dog they are capable of being.

You can do it slowly, using desensitization and it sticks for life-remission but no cure-it's always there but not apparent.

You can do it quickly and then constantly need to reteach it every time.

That's how I feel about it anyway! But Kramer, Bella, Mariele, and now working on Ilsa (who is batcrap crazy ) have all (knock wood) done really well using that slow, NILIF, calm, lots of obedience classes, baby step approach.

Breaking it down-need to think about it more-but look at all of those things above as a whole done very slowly over time and the entire time protecting your dog from a situation, person, event that will cause it to go into a panic.

For the vet office, many visits over time just popping in for a weight check and a howdy with lots of good treats makes a big difference.

There are a lot of good sites http://www.k9aggression.com and http://www.goof.com/~pmurphy/shy-k9s-faq.html with a link to the Yahoo shy dog group-worth joining just for the archives.

Do you have two dogs? How is the other dog?
__________________
IMOM is...
JeanKBBMMMAAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 11:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,297
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

that is what I thought about the e-collar-it would just ramp it up more...I don't know of any behaviorists around here that I can go to at this time, so am kind of depending on this great site for help, thank you ZuesGSD for your comments! I know not to tell her its ok when she is in that mode-the vet today said at her age, socialization would probably not help...I disagree with that!! She is the only one in the litter that seems to have this as I am in contact w/ her breeder thru e-mail.
She is 1 1/2 hrs away, and I don't know how much experience she has with f a anyway.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 11:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
scannergirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Outer Banks, NC
Posts: 2,255
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

At least you know your instincts are right on! That gives you at least a little protection from bad advice!
__________________
Lisa
Owned by:
Lucina v Dare, GSD
Fancy Me Deuce (Tedy) APHA gelding
Purple Haze Nirvana AQHA mare
Trooper rescue kitty and senior fur kid
scannergirl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 11:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
JanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: northwest Alabama
Posts: 409
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

I agree with what's been said on the ecollar. I think they have their place but a dog already fearful getting 'bit' when she doesn't understand why or where it's coming from can only increase in fear. If they're doing something wrong - sneaking into the garbage or going over a fence - it's one thing. But saying fear is wrong and punishing for it just increases it. JMO.

Having others be around her, doing things in small steps, riding that fine line between uneasiness to show she'll be ok and the overriding fear when she's not thinking at all is sometimes difficult. As she builds confidence it will get easier.
Good luck!
JanH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 11:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
WiscTiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 15,171
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

I have a fearful dog, while her's is easier to handle because she will just fold up instead of being aggressive, I don't ever want to push her to that point.

Like John said being a FIRM but Fair leader. That is sometimes a lot harder than people realize. Usually there are triggers, the Vet's office, other dogs, etc. Identify the triggers, write them down and since you don't have any help local let's all put out heads together and see if we can come up with some type of program schedule that you can work on.

First with my female when I see she is concerned I have to be very strong, shoulders back, head up so she can feel that I am in charge and she doesn't have to worry. When a dog gets worried and feels that they have to handle all the stresses is when they will either become aggressive or just shut down. So part of this is going to be on you, practice your posture and also keeping your emotions in what I call the nuetral zone, just very very even, that will incourage your dog to be more even, centered or focused.

Val
__________________
Wisctiger@msn.com
Cheyenne-2/02 DeeDee Little Bit-6/02 Lakota-1/03 Raya-9/05
WiscTiger is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 11:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,297
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

Once they are fearful, is that always going to be the case or can this be overcome? It seems to me it is in their genetics and is the dogs make-up. This was my breeders first litter w/ her dam, but the father has sired "many litters". I am hoping that down the road this can be overcome. Onyx gets this way whenever anyone she is unfamiliar with approaches her she hackles and growls. If she is the appraocher, she is just fine.
I don't know if this has any relation to her , but when she was 10 weeks I took her to a 4-H(kids) class w/ breeder and her dogs. Onyx was sitting behind me and the trainer came over and (she is deaf) talked in a loud tone "to get that dog out from behind you" and pulled her out. She submissively peed and again peed when the breeder and Onyx' mom came near to her(we had had her for three weeks by then). I almost think this was an imprinting stage for her and thus the fear agressive behavior began...
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 11:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northen Virginia
Posts: 28
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

I have a very fearful dog as well although he only barks and growles, he has never tried to bite. I talked to my trainer about it and she said to try to get his attention, and that if he makes a small sound or bark and then looks at me that it is a good starting point. For him the thing that sets him off most is kids, moslty because they do not know how to act around dogs. I would try to get her attention and praise her for that. I use a ball because my boy isint very food motivated.
meganktar is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2008, 11:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
The Rescues Rule Administrator
 
JeanKBBMMMAAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 23,709
Default Re: Can fear aggression be overcome??

The symptoms can go away, the problem is still there. (remission)

I think it is genetic and that breeding dogs who produce dogs with this trait isn't a good thing. It won't shut down the supply of GSDs not to repeat breedings of any two dogs and might help to restore the breed to only use solid, well tested animals for breeding.

While that experience didn't help, it certainly didn't cause the problem. The problem was there waiting to come out. Other dogs wouldn't have been behind a person to begin with, other dogs can handle a bad experience.
__________________
IMOM is...
JeanKBBMMMAAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com