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Belgain shepherd nips / bites son

10K views 109 replies 26 participants last post by  SuperG 
#1 ·
We adopted Baloo last Thurs from a santuary. He is 2 years old. We met him as a family twice and there were no issues. He gets on well with my wife and daughter.

When my son 16 arrived home last Thurs, the Baloo barked at my son. I ignored this and put it down to excitment. A few mins later he bit my son on his hand. No blood was drawn but light marks were visible.
He has since biten my son twice.

I'm not really sure what to make of this. Is it some kind of alpha pack behaviour going on?
My son comes across as nervous to dogs so I wonder if the dog is picking up on this?
Apart from this, Baloo is great.

The santuary have advised us to ensure that my son feeds Baloo all the time and this should change the dynamic between them.

Any other advice please?
 
#3 ·
Baloo does not show the same affection to my son. He seems a more tense.
No growls or curling.
My son was initially very nervous, not surprising as he's been bitten a few times. He now seems more relaxed, but I keep Baloo on a lead when my son is near as suggested by the santuary. He does like Baloo but is upset at what's happened.

Thanks for taking time to reply, Dotbat.
 
#7 ·
Hard to say, but looks like a malinois, more show/pet line type, but really impossible to say without seeing a pedigree.

Malinois are bred to bite stuff, they are reactive, they can be protective of their personal space in ways you wouldn't expect. They are dogs that need a savvy owner who is willing to put in time, training, set boundaries and be a dependable leader. They can be nervy if poorly bred or even if not, it happens.

Wonderful dogs in the right homes, but they are not "normal" dogs, by most people's standards. When they are good they are very very good, but when they are bad...

Separate dog and son. Look into training.

Do you have any history on him? I don't want to scare you, malinois are incredible dogs and my breed of choice, but nerves can certainly be a problem, and if he is nervy, you'll need to make some decisions about next steps and if you want to keep the dog.
 
#8 ·
Muskeg and Baillif ... keep those two in mind, mostly like there are others but those two I know better. :)

Most likely the shelter you got him from, is going to be a waste of time for further info on the dog's behaviour?? Most shelters don't really have a freaking clue about a dog's behaviour ... aside from the fairly obvious. At the bare minimum however they should be able to tell you ... if the dog lived with kids??? I don't do dogs and kids ... so bare that in mind.

However ... you just got this dog and somethings are basic. The dog does not know you and as far as he is considered ... "your home" is just another "foster home" been there done this.

At the minimum, you should follow the "suggestion" outlined in the first link in this thread. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

You're going to need to incorporate "better management practices" ... exercise "alone" is not going to be a "total solution" for "issues." And the old, my other dog thing??? Yeah that's how people get in trouble (first hand experiance on that one) ... this is not your other dog ... work with the dog in front of you ... welcome aboard ... and he is handsome by the way. :)
 
#10 ·
Hire a trainer to come to the house when everyone is home. We can only guess from here. He doesn't look very Malinois to me. A first bite can happen but a second one? Unless you are very experienced (but then the second bite wouldn't have happened) this dog is probably too much for you. Or you will have to put a lot of time, effort and money in it. If this is not what you had in mind, I would find him a good home with the help of a trainer, where he can thrive according to his breed. Many rescues are not correctly evaluating their dogs, yet the adopters take their info serious. Do not take him back to the rescue.
He looks beautiful though.
 
#11 ·
Knightrider,

I like Baloo, he's Mr. Serious isn't he. :) Sharp looking dog and I wouldn't give up on him after this incident. Has he bit anyone else besides your son?

My first GSD was a 5 yr. old retired K9. He was an awesome dog and most friendly up to a point when one day someone came over to the house with a friend of mine to help me with a project. I could introduce anyone to him and he'd be just fine. The guy that came along to help us was tossing his ball for him during a break and I thought--he's fine, no worries. But when the guy walked up to King to pet him, King lowered his head and walked away; then King turned around and nipped the guy in the butt crack and drew blood. That's the only time that ever happened; it scared me too!!

What's that have to do with your Malinois? Well, something about the person like a scent or their voice may trigger a dog to nip or bite someone, maybe because of a very bad experience. That's about the only thing I could make of this.
Make check back with the rescue and found out any background history about your boy. He may need some work with a pro, but I never had anyone work with any of my dogs. If they have a bond with you and completely trust you; they are trainable and can be adapted to just about anything.

I know for a fact though, after working around military dogs from different countries that some dogs are just plain "monsters" and they are not ever going to be a family pet except for maybe one or two people. I've seen some bad wounds on guys from just training or playing with their working dogs.
 
#14 ·
Did your son never meet the dog as part of your family?

He has bitten him 3 times?

I'm sorry. But this is a deal breaker. Your child's safety must come first.

What happens if it escalates and causes actually injury to your child? What, do you tell the Dr that the last 3 bites didn't break the skin? Seriously.

Not sure why,and it's none of my business, your son was a new person to the dog. Maybe he lives at school or with his mother. If it's the latter, is he going to tell her your new dog bit him 3 times?? How is that going to go over? How would you feel getting that news?

I am not saying this is a bad unfixable dog. I am saying that your home is now not safe for your child and that IS a fixable solution. Return the dog.
 
#16 ·
The son is 16, not a young child.

But I do understand where you are coming from, Deb.

I tend to think once a dog tries a behavior, and it works, the dog will keep doing it. They do what works for them.

It's next to impossible to advise the OP without seeing video or actually seeing the dog live in action.

If the OP is invested in working with the dog, make sure the dog does not have a chance to nip the son again, and seek out a reputable trainer. This board can help you find one.
 
#19 ·
Muskeg, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Sixteen is still a child and should not have to live in a house afraid of what a new dog might do. The next bite could cause serious injury. Aside from that, what happens when the son or daughter have friends over? Or the parents have friends over who have a child? The tension in the house is going to go up due to worry over the dog biting the son. The dog is going to sense the tension and that will make it tense. This is the kind of thing that can sadly, escalate to a sad conclusion.
 
#21 ·
I totally understand not wanting to keep a dog that nips any household member- adult or child.

But in the dog's eyes this is no child. This is a young adult male and that could be part of the problem. Which may matter not at all, if a member of the household is getting nipped by the dog, that is of course not OK.

I'd advise the OP again, to keep the dog from having any opportunity to nip the son, no access at all, and to get an evaluation from a trainer. A good trainer experienced with this type of dog. That's the best I can do without more information.
 
#22 ·
I'd keep him. Hire a trainer... let your son train him. Good for relationship and confidence (for both of them). In the meantime continue to be proactive and manage the situation. Hand feed meals... no direct and prolonged eye contact, physical restraining or manipulating etc etc. positive and relaxed interactions only until you have more guidance.
 
#23 ·
Hi, I think this is nothing more than the two not really knowing each other yet. I would spend some quality time with your son and the dog and you included. Take some long walks and have your son feed him treats, have your son throw a few balls and let the dog fetch them. Just let them both have fun together. I think this will pass once they get to know each other better. I don't think this is very serious yet, it can be, but if they spend good quality fun times together it will pass.
 
#24 ·
It's pretty obvious people posting here to saying to keep this dog don't have children. I can't even imagine picking a dog you don't even know over one's child no mattter the age. If this is the belief of most of this forum's members, I have to question whether I want to stay here. The dog isn't just unsure of this boy, it bit the boy three times according to the OP. Is it really even a question? You all really think a little bonding time is going to make up for the parents not protecting their son? At this point, it has very little to do with the dog and everything to do with the kind of relationship they want to have with their child when he is an adult.
 
#25 ·
^no, but some of us were children and teens... who were bitten by family dogs, turned out fine, well adjusted, work with dogs professionally now, and harbor no ill feelings towards their parents.

3, non serious bites, on a 16yr old. Granted #2 and #3 shouldn't have happened, poor management, but if they like the dog and want to put in the work - I don't see a reason not to.

We have very very little information about these incidents. Keep that in mind.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I called my dad tonight for something unrelated then ventured to ask what he or my mom thought regarding some of the bites I received as a child (I don't recall any that broke skin)... if getting rid of the dogs was ever considered. His words "yeah right, you would have had a fit if we got rid of the dogs". Which leads me to suggest to the OP - ask your son what he's comfortable with. Empower him and make him a part of the decision. Ask your daughter if she's still comfortable after knowing what happened to her brother. None of us can speak for you, your family, or more importantly him!
 
#27 ·
I grew up in a different type of environment, dogs that bit, especially children got put down. As I'm getting older I have different opinions on it, and am in no way saying put the dog down. But I know in my household I wouldn't be keeping this dog. It's a brand new dog and would be a deal breaker for me, if a family member was uncomfortable or scared of the dog. I'd be rehoming it personally. Had a dog on a trial run from a shelter, she wasn't getting along with my dogs and tried killing a cat, so I took her back(my shelter only has 0-6ish dogs at any given time). Now I have found a dog who gets along with my dogs and cats. Not to say the first dog couldn't have adjusted but at the time I had no interest in dealing with an aggressive dog, especially one that would do beautifully and was ready for a single animal household.

Then again I don't know the background of what's going on before each of these bites happen. But regardless of why the dog is biting, other than in IPO ect. A dog should not be biting people. Don't give him a chance to do it and if that means a muzzle so be it. I get the dog is new but that does not excuse biting people, provided said people are not purposely antagonizing dog.

I don't do IPO or anything similar so I have a very no nonsense attitude about dogs teeth on people. Immediate correction(not violent) from me. If they are playing and get too rough they get a cool down from play. Codi used to be very careless with where she is biting but now I watch her take care to not put teeth on people. If I put my hands on places she didn't like or surprised her, she would turn fast with her mouth open, but wasn't trying to bite me. Now she turns fast but licks or nudges with her nose. So you can work with it if that's what your are determined to do, but there needs to not be a 4th or 5th! Don't let it escalate basically.

-This feels kind of long and like I'm rambling a bit...
 
#28 ·
Wow. Many thanks to all for replying. Some very honest replies and things for me to consider.

I would never put this dog above my son, that is just non sense. I am very positive and believe that we can work on this as a family.
Buloo is very protective of me. Yesterday I was coughing in the study and he came running to check that I was okay :grin2:
He gets on really well with my daughter and wife and they love him.

I will ask my son how he feels, but he is 16 and young so still forming opinions.
My son soley feeds Buloo. We have a muzzle that we tried on him yesterday. I plan to let me son walk Buloo with the muzzle on to see how it goes. I hope that in a few weeks the dynamic will change and my and Buloo will form a positve bonding with my son.

I've seen that Buloo can get nervous at times, especially when there is a group of dogs approaching him.

Let's see how things progress in the coming days. I'll keep you posted. Again many thanks for the comments.
Another pic of the naughty Buloo:

 
#29 ·
Wow. Many thanks to all for replying. Some very honest replies and things for me to consider.

I would never put this dog above my son, that is just non sense. I am very positive and believe that we can work on this as a family.
Buloo is very protective of me. Yesterday I was coughing in the study and he came running to check that I was okay :grin2:
He gets on really well with my daughter and wife and they love him.

I will ask my son how he feels, but he is 16 and young so still forming opinions.
My son soley feeds Buloo. We have a muzzle that we tried on him yesterday. I plan to let me son walk Buloo with the muzzle on to see how it goes. I hope that in a few weeks the dynamic will change and my and Buloo will form a positve bonding with my son.

I've seen that Buloo can get nervous at times, especially when there is a group of dogs approaching him.

Let's see how things progress in the coming days. I'll keep you posted. Again many thanks for the comments.
Another pic of the naughty Buloo:
Keep in mind this (in bold) is another set up for a bite/redirect. I would also rethink having the son to walk him when there are other dogs present until the cause for nervousness is discovered. If this dog is DA, the antics he may pull will not impress your son.

This is a new dog being introduced to a new person, maybe some over excitement on both human and dog part, handling skills a little slow maybe, son nervous, dog nervous. A bite happened, more or less one that appears to be a warning to back off. A learning moment for all involved. The later bites a mix of management and human emotion. The fact that your son does come across as nervous to dogs can encourage a bite or other reactive behavior from dogs, especially if they are already a nervous dog themselves.

Just a side note - be sure the muzzle you get for him is a basket muzzle. You want him to have plenty of room for air, panting and drinking.

I am not going to say return the dog or keep him. What you do need to do is get an experienced trainer coming in and make some decisions. Decide if you are able to make the commitment to training and management this dog will require.
 
#31 · (Edited)
You are doing the evaluation a good rescue should have done before the dog was adopted out. I have only worked with reputable rescues who do that kind of evaluation during the fostering period. I fostered dogs with aggressive behavior. This dog reminds me of one that was not a GSD who could not tolerate young men. The dog was around many in my home and the reaction was always the same. A lot of growling. Instead of getting better, it got worse. I brought in a trainer who offered to give a free evaluation and said the dog was too aggressive for a home with a lot of traffic. I did a lot of management but the dog still tried to bite someone on the leg. Had they not seen and jumped away, the dog would have made contact and given a serious bite. So my evaluation was that the dog needed to go to a home with no young males. I wrote down that the dog tried to intentionally bite someone. The dog did very well with the new owners, but they knew in advance what they were getting and were up for it.

I finally asked the rescue who had abused the dog and it turns out it was not written on the owner release form but had been told to the intake person. The dog was being released because it had been abused for over a year by the owner's young adult violent boyfriend and the owner finally got away from him herself. She had to give up her dogs. Because I had German Shepherd background, I was given the one they thought might be aggresive because they needed an evaluation. Since I was fostering and not adopting, it was my job to determine the dogs safety round people. Somehow in the rush of taking in a lot of new dogs the extra information wasn't passed along.

You don't know the dog's history, so you have to make the evaluation. I was going off of what you posted. Now you don't seem that concerned, so I'm not either. it's your choice whether you mind the dog putting teeth on your son or not, but please get a trainer evaluation. For me, a dog that bites a family member during the honeymoon period would be returned.
 
#33 ·
thanks for the further comments! :)

The santuary have asked me to take Baloo back on Saturday so that they can spend some more time with us as a family. One of their dog accessors will spend time with us and see the interaction that goes on.
I like the santuary as they are trying their best to help me and they are a charity so I'll be happy to donate.

Will keep you posted. Another pic of Baloo playing with me:

 
#35 ·
thanks for the further comments! :)

The santuary have asked me to take Baloo back on Saturday so that they can spend some more time with us as a family. One of their dog accessors will spend time with us and see the interaction that goes on.
I like the santuary as they are trying their best to help me and they are a charity so I'll be happy to donate.

Will keep you posted. Another pic of Baloo playing with me:
Are the pictures to show us the dog is calm with you? I would have guessed that without the pictures. If you want real feedback, show us pictures of the dog's body posture around your son.

Why didn't the sanctuary have someone watch your whole family with the dog before handing it over to you? Being a charity doesn't impress me. Any good rescue has charity status.

All I know about your situation is what you posted, but the fact that you had to ask for this kind of advice on a message board tells me you are not experienced with what you have. This isn't a criticism but a serious question. Do you have the experience to manage a dog that is capable of seriously hurting your son? The pictures you posted and the comments tell me you don't believe this dog could be a danger to him.
 
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