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I'm clueless as to what's happening to her.

14K views 140 replies 21 participants last post by  pets4life 
#1 ·
Hi I'm new here and I made an account here in hopes to get help and gain some knowledge on what's (first time owner) wrong with my 7 1/2 month old GSD.

So I got my GSD who is named Lexi at around 13 weeks old and she was very social and had great fun up until she hit 6 months. At around 6 months it was as if she had literally forgotten all her training and did not respect or listen to anyone in our household at all. I know that pups go through an adolescent stage during this age but I never really knew it was this serious. She does commands whenever she feels like it or when she sees a treat in my hand which I really don't like. I don't want her to do commands only when I have a treat.

A couple of problems I have that are serious happen when she is out on walks and out in our backyard. During walks, whenever she sees a stranger she lunges and barks at them and when she sees a dog it's twice as worse because the barking she does for other people gets very deeper sound wise when she sees the other dog. The same thing applies when she's in the yard. She goes absolutely insane when she sees someone walking by our gate and she's jumping all over it while barking and same the goes for other dogs. She doesn't even listen to me or any of my family members when she's outside. I try to have her in a sit and tell her to "leave it" when she sees someone or another dog but it just doesn't work.

She has done some obedience training but due to financial problems (She's my dog and I am responsible for everything although my family helps me out from time to time since I'm a full time college student) I can't keep paying for obedience classes but I hope to do so this summer since I start work in a couple of weeks to help pay for them.

I really love my dog and I am trying my best to fix these problems but it's just stressful to have them go on day in and day out and I tend to be a very laid back person, very calm. My parents are even at the point where they might just ask me to give her away or take her to a shelter and that's something I don't want to happen. Any kind of information I can get that can help me will be very appreciated since it will be coming from experienced people.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

TLDR: My dog Lexi goes bonkers when she see's other people and dogs and I don't know if it's out of fear or aggression. She doesn't listen when outside and only listens when she's indoors whenever I have a treat or if she wants to. Due to all this, I risk losing her because my parents don't want a dog with these types of behavior problems.
 
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#2 ·
Hi. I think some of it has to do with her age. My male GSD forgot his manners around that time too.
But the bottom line is that the behavior needs to be corrected asap.
When she barks and lunges, Correct her.
When she refuses a command or takes too long to comply, Correct her.

I think if you could have even one visit with a very good trainer to show you how to use the leash and a prong collar to make corrections, you will see a big difference in her behavior. But you need to be consistent.

And you might want to limit her time in the yard unattended.
Barking at people and dogs walking by will become a habit for her, she wont stop unless she knows it's not okay.
Plus your parents and neighbors will hate the noise.

And put her in her crate or separate her from you and your fam when you've had enough.
Good luck. I hope all goes well.
 
#4 ·
Hi. I think some of it has to do with her age. My male GSD forgot his manners around that time too.
But the bottom line is that the behavior needs to be corrected asap.
When she barks and lunges, Correct her.
When she refuses a command or takes too long to comply, Correct her.
Thank you for your reply and i'll be sure to do so although I need to ask about how I go on to correct her? I know what you mean by it but how can I correct her without looking like as if I am abusing her? I don't hit her or anything like that as I wouldn't be able to live with myself but how do I go on about doing it? I put a leash on her while she's outside and I keep a watch out for any passers by so that she doesn't run off to to them and I put her in a sit position and give the leash a slight tug to make her snap out of trying to run for them. I also forgot to mention that she never goes outside unsupervised as my father or I are always there since we're afraid she might grab and eat something she isn't supposed to. I just want to know how to correct her without looking inhumane to other people since that's what I'm most scared of.

I'll also take into consideration of having a prong collar and absolutely get a trainer to show me how to use it since I don't want to hurt my dog with it.
 
#3 ·
This is why we always try to convince college students to wait. Don't sweat it, though a lot of us got our first pup when we were in college or in no position to have a puppy.

Let me ask you a question: If your dog had an abcess on her back and needed a surgery that would cost $150 cash to get it fixed, otherwise the infection would become worse, and the dog might succumb to it, what would you do?

With that answer in mind, I want for you to understand that the main reason dogs are given up to shelters is lack of training. Lots of these adolescent dogs die in those shelters. Owner turn-ins often do not live as long as it takes the owner to get out of the parking lot. Even pure-bred dogs are put down with impunity because of lack of training and behaviors that might never have started if the dog hadn't lacked direction during adolescence.

You are seeing a festering wound that needs to be addressed. It is time to dig deep into your pockets, barrow from your parents, sell something you care about, and get your dog some training classes. I know time and money are both a problem, but use your dog to take breaks while studying. 40 minutes of study, 10 minutes obedience session. 40 minutes of study, 10 minutes in the back yard playing. 40 minutes of studying, and a 10 minute walk. And a snickers bar -- don't forget the snickers bar.

Keep it short, keep it light, keep it fun. Treats are something that you do in the beginning to load your praise like you load a clicker. Then you phase out treats. You give them for trying something new, for excellent responses, for a string of behaviors done well. More importantly, you need to start training sessions and end training sessions with something that the dog will be successful with.

Be consistent. Instead of punishing the dog for what you do not like, set the dog up to succeed and praise it for succeeding. Instead of waiting for a dog to fail and then giving it negative feedback, tell the dog what you want it to do, help it, and praise it for doing it. Don't wait for the dog to start lunging at the other dog, Say, With Me, and turn away from the other dog BEFORE there is a reaction. Don't wait for the dog to react with barks when people are approaching, Tell your dog to SIT! and make sure you stay far enough away from the people to stay under the dog's threshold for now.

Before the dog reacts, act. Before the dog exhibits a behavior you don't want, give a command for behavior you do want.

Not sure how things are at home, but if the dog has the run of the house, while you are not there, maybe it is time for a little less freedom -- crate the dog when you are not home. Leash the dog to you when you are studying. The dog doesn't rule the roost. You do. You give the dog the opportunities that he/she will do well in, you set the stage, you set her up to succeed.
 
#5 ·
Thank you for your reply! I'll be sure to take everything you have said into thought and use it to help me in her training. Also I'd like to mention that when she's in the house she doesn't really have the run of it. I made sure from the first day I got her up until right now that she wouldn't. I have her sit for her food and wait for her to look at me and give her the command to go, never have her block any passages and if she is I poke her slightly to move and she does, and I also never have her walk into a room first before me.

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply. I'll try my very best to solve these things with her.
 
#6 ·
How much exercise does this pup get? 6 months was around the time I needed to up my pup's physical activity.

Walking is not exercise. I'm talking about good off leash running time.

What do you do for mental stimulation? These are dogs that were bred to work, and work all day long. Many are not content to be house pets.

Personally if it were me, I would consider starting over from square one using different commands. Every time you have given your pup a command and she did not obey it - you taught her that she didn't have to obey you. Try a different set of commands, reteach the behaviors and do not give a command that you cannot reinforce unless you are certain it will be obeyed.
 
#10 ·
I tend to give her 2-3 hours of physical exercise and mental stimulation apart from walking. For physical I have fetching for a big ball and switching to a smaller one, I have a flirt pole which she loves, off leash running back and forth freely around the yard with constant supervision so she doesn't do anything she is not supposed to, and I tend to set up a couple of obstacles here and there where she can jump. For mental I have her in a sit inside the house and put cups in front her of and hide a small piece of chicken in one of them and I mix them in front of her and have her find it, I have a kong to put treats into or her food, and I have her sit outside and throw a treat and let her find it. I don't really know many mental exercises and I'm open to some suggestions.
 
#9 ·
In addition to what everyone else already suggested, try to relax and be consistent. If you are stressed - the dog will sense it and will also be stressed, which doesn't help the situation. You need to be THE leader! Someone your furry friend looks up to, follows you, protects you. And you need to work on those qualities as well. The regular frequent training sessions and teaching her new tricks will help you both to fine-tune the ways you communicate with each other. This, in turn, will strengthen the bond and she'll be more confident and calm. But everything takes time and patience and consistency are the keys. Don't let her get away with "I don't feel like sitting when you tell me to". Follow through with each command.

Good luck with the little troublemaker:).
 
#11 ·
go back to the beginning --
tell us about the dog at 13 weeks
tell us how you socialized her, what was her experience with "strangers" -- you said she was very
social and had lots of fun --- and then the music stopped? she became Big and people dropped off
being social and so she is frustrated
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html


before you can correct her she has to have a concept of what you want from her .


this is why I say to deal with your pup in a way that will be consistent with what you are going
to expect as an adult ---
if you give and then deny frustration builds and you have conflict
 
#13 ·
go back to the beginning --
tell us about the dog at 13 weeks
tell us how you socialized her, what was her experience with "strangers" -- you said she was very
social and had lots of fun --- and then the music stopped? she became Big and people dropped off
being social and so she is frustrated
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html
At 13 weeks when I first got her and had her in our home she was very anxious and going back and forth for a couple of days and wouldn't listen to us as much. I can only assume she did this because she was in a new environment completely different from where she was already at. I socialized her during the time she was 13 weeks up until she hit 6 months with my friends, neighbors, a few strangers on walks who would ask about her, some dogs/puppies that tend to be walked around my area, and I took her with me to my local petsmart so she could see other dogs as well. At around 5 months I had her spayed. It was then at 6 months her adolescent stage kicked in and her social abilities started to drop off, she would bark and run at people who were walking by our fence and dogs as well. I read about a fear period all pups tend to go through but read that it only lasts 1-2 weeks and it's almost going to be 2 months since this all started to happen. All dogs are different in terms of these kind of things and they'll have them a couple of times during their lives but I never expected it to last this long.
 
#14 ·
Work under threshold on walks. Avoid taking her out at times where there is a lot of foot traffic (the trigger). Quit worrying about the treats. Use them. Give them only after she has completed a command. (such as moving to you and sitting out of the way while the stimulus goes past and reward during the passing of that stimulus - while she is sitting looking at you). Time helps. So does consistent work with this.

Now go get your patience back... ;)
 
#15 ·
Hmm well yeah ... you got kind of a train wreck going on here. :)

But not to worry, the one thing you've done right , is made the decision to "out think your dog!" Which tends to involve reviewing what you're doing and making "adjustments and changes where needed."

Right now you're hopping on board the "old my dog changed thing???" I'm a member! Rest assured you're not the only member. :)


My thing, is to try and help those that can ... "do." And at this point ... your well beyond a "Gentle Paws" "PO" type trainer ... in my view. You'll need a " Balanced Trainer" that believes in telling a dog "NO" and delivering an adversive! They tend to work like this:



And note the use of the "Pet Convincer" to deliver an "aversive" the "PC" ... takes the how to of "corrections" off the table. :)


At any rate my "Find a Trainer" bit is in here, :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7589889-post13.html

The first link, those guys "Jeff and Sean" "maybe able to help you locate a trainer locale to you, if no here can?? And in anycase they are excellent sources of information and continuing Doggy Education on a "Weekly Basics." My "concession" to the masses. :)

My thing is "DIY Dog Training" when I had my problems with the old "My Dog Change thing???" I did it myself, I may be a "Conceited, Condescending Ass" but I figured it out ... I do "family pets" dogs behaving badly, if I figured it out, I figure so can others, they just need a "Blueprint

Problems/Solutions ... I figured it out. When I had my dog's "issues," "Pet Things" I was like ... I don't know what is going on here?? But I got this ... worked out fine. I did it myself ... I figured it out, my take is so can others, they just need a plan. :)

Really most of your answers ... are all in those link's! I can help you put the "pieces" together ... it's not that hard and as I stated, you already took the first step "out think your dog" ... so chill "we got this." :)

Welcome aboard. :)
 
#18 ·
Hmm well yeah ... you got kind of a train wreck going on here.

But not to worry, the one thing you've done right , is made the decision to "out think your dog!" Which tends to involve reviewing what you're doing and making "adjustments and changes where needed."

Right now you're hopping on board the "old my dog changed thing???" I'm a member! Rest assured you're not the only member.


My thing, is to try and help those that can ... "do." And at this point ... your well beyond a "Gentle Paws" "PO" type trainer ... in my view. You'll need a " Balanced Trainer" that believes in telling a dog "NO" and delivering an adversive! They tend to work like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-VJXhM0iJo

And note the use of the "Pet Convincer" to deliver an "aversive" the "PC" ... takes the how to of "corrections" off the table.


At any rate my "Find a Trainer" bit is in here, :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7589889-post13.html

The first link, those guys "Jeff and Sean" "maybe able to help you locate a trainer locale to you, if no here can?? And in anycase they are excellent sources of information and continuing Doggy Education on a "Weekly Basics." My "concession" to the masses.

My thing is "DIY Dog Training" when I had my problems with the old "My Dog Change thing???" I did it myself, I may be a "Conceited, Condescending Ass" but I figured it out ... I do "family pets" dogs behaving badly, if I figured it out, I figure so can others, they just need a "Blueprint

Problems/Solutions ... I figured it out. When I had my dog's "issues," "Pet Things" I was like ... I don't know what is going on here?? But I got this ... worked out fine. I did it myself ... I figured it out, my take is so can others, they just need a plan.

Really most of your answers ... are all in those link's! I can help you put the "pieces" together ... it's not that hard and as I stated, you already took the first step "out think your dog" ... so chill "we got this."

Welcome aboard.
A thousand thanks for these links! They're very informative and I'll be sure to use them to help the situation I'm in.
 
#19 ·
LOL ... oh I'm not done yet. :)
I like to serve as a "crap filter" for people! Stop "searching" and start doing ... what do serious trainers that work with dogs with as I am want to say "serious freaking issues do??" If it works for them .. it can work for me!

The very fist links I complied (it's in there but kinda buried) so here you go ...
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

Your dog has a lot of baggage, most likely he free roams in the home?? Hops on the bed and furniture and pretty much does whatever he wants???

If that's the case it all needs to change, if he went to a board and train ...non of that would be happening. He would be Crate Trained and if he was not being worked or exercised. He would be in "Place" and he would learn to chill, cope with doing "nothing."

Starting over looks like the first link in that thread ... "I just got a rescue ...." the "people thing" is in there also, "Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" worked with my people friendly Boxer and my HA OS WL GSD, I used a muzzle on him for awhile but it never came into play (I showed him how I expected him to behave, no problems,) he is still not a people fan but he does not act like a "tool" and is safe in public. :)

And the first video clip, is how I train dogs to walk on a loose leash, very first thing I was shown ... I thought it was crap years later yeah ... I was wrong ... back to basics .. works out fine. These days I use a Slip Lead Leash better and faster still. And a proper correction is a slight tug sideways (get the dog off center not a pull straight back) details are here:
Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums


Right now your dog is a bit of a wild child it would seem, doesn't really have a "pattern of listening to you?? Right now everything is kinda like:



That needs to change first. :)

Rules Structure and Limitations, starts in the home, no free roaming, Crate or Place only in the home. No bed or furniture privileges, 30 to 90 days at least.

Yet another long post with more details.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7837361-post12.html

But ... it all starts with "Place" use a drag leash and start in the home. It is lots of work but none of it is hard. The dog needs to be able to go on a proper structured walk before you can start to work on people and dog issues. And sigh ... my preference is for a SLL, but a "Prong Collar" if fitted and used properly is also a viable option. Same deal slight tug sideways the "Prong amplifies the effect.

Tylor Muto, Jeff Gellman Solidk9training and Sean Oshea of the Good Dog have clips on using a prong collar properly ... not my thing, so I never created a thread. :)

And the fence fighting, yeah that has to stop. Most likely ... that is going to take an E-Collar and a "Behaviour Modification" protocol?? Properly timed ... it's a 3 sec fix! But that's not how you train a dog with an E-Collar. But ... if you work on Rules, Structure and Limitations ... you might able to solve it with a "NO" or a "Down!"

Speaking of which ...

Next ... E collar nit my thing ..just stuff I know. :)
 
#20 ·
LOL ... oh I'm not done yet.
I like to serve as a "crap filter" for people! Stop "searching" and start doing ... what do serious trainers that work with dogs with as I am want to say "serious freaking issues do??" If it works for them .. it can work for me!

The very fist links I complied (it's in there but kinda buried) so here you go ...
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

Your dog has a lot of baggage, most likely he free roams in the home?? Hops on the bed and furniture and pretty much does whatever he wants???

If that's the case it all needs to change, if he went to a board and train ...non of that would be happening. He would be Crate Trained and if he was not being worked or exercised. He would be in "Place" and he would learn to chill, cope with doing "nothing."

Starting over looks like the first link in that thread ... "I just got a rescue ...." the "people thing" is in there also, "Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" worked with my people friendly Boxer and my HA OS WL GSD, I used a muzzle on him for awhile but it never came into play (I showed him how I expected him to behave, no problems,) he is still not a people fan but he does not act like a "tool" and is safe in public.

And the first video clip, is how I train dogs to walk on a loose leash, very first thing I was shown ... I thought it was crap years later yeah ... I was wrong ... back to basics .. works out fine. These days I use a Slip Lead Leash better and faster still. And a proper correction is a slight tug sideways (get the dog off center not a pull straight back) details are here:
Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums


Right now your dog is a bit of a wild child it would seem, doesn't really have a "pattern of listening to you?? Right now everything is kinda like:



That needs to change first.

Rules Structure and Limitations, starts in the home, no free roaming, Crate or Place only in the home. No bed or furniture privileges, 30 to 90 days at least.

Yet another long post with more details.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7837361-post12.html

But ... it all starts with "Place" use a drag leash and start in the home. It is lots of work but none of it is hard. The dog needs to be able to go on a proper structured walk before you can start to work on people and dog issues. And sigh ... my preference is for a SLL, but a "Prong Collar" if fitted and used properly is also a viable option. Same deal slight tug sideways the "Prong amplifies the effect.

Tylor Muto, Jeff Gellman Solidk9training and Sean Oshea of the Good Dog have clips on using a prong collar properly ... not my thing, so I never created a thread.

And the fence fighting, yeah that has to stop. Most likely ... that is going to take an E-Collar and a "Behaviour Modification" protocol?? Properly timed ... it's a 3 sec fix! But that's not how you train a dog with an E-Collar. But ... if you work on Rules, Structure and Limitations ... you might able to solve it with a "NO" or a "Down!"

Speaking of which ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaVvwbT7iYw

Next ... E collar nit my thing ..just stuff I know.
May I also mention that some of the problems I have tend to also be with my family members at home. They cannot stop spoiling her, allow her to jump all over them, give her treats constantly to get her to stop doing something or stop whining or barking. I do not allow any of this behavior with me but they allow it happening with them. She is also crate trained and not allowed into certain places of the house. Although I don't know how it is when I'm not at home but I feel like my family members are enforcing all this bad behavior when they don't realize it's making me deal with more problems.

They even get mad at me when I tell them to stop and they only keep enforcing this bad behavior and when they tell me to fix it when they don't like it how am I supposed to when they just keep allowing it to happen and don't help me? They tell me she's my dog which is true but if they just keep enforcing her bad behavior then I don't think Lexi will ever change. How can I tell them to just quit what they're doing? Do they need to hear it from a trainer or something because I can't get through to them.
 
#22 ·
Chip 18 has some excellent ideas.
To add to his comments I will say that the dog has not changed , she is in full out of control display of what she is at her core , which is a nervous anxious dog . That is not a fear period . I fear that is her . Period.
So when you recognize her limitations and her issues you see that structure and controlled leadership is all the more important as this will provide her with some sense of security.
Allowing her to fence run when only exacerbate the problem . She wins doing it .
Provide a restful kennel spot , square 10 x 10 or 12 x 12 (rectangular promotes running back and forth).
3 sides of enclosure will block out view by use of wood , tarp , or landscape shrubbery .
If the problem is not fixed then what you see now will only become moreso . Do not wait . This is not a fear period .
Her awareness has changed.


There may have been compounding issues brought on by early spaying . Others can chime in on this one.
Here is some good reading material on how to calm the mind of the dog that is afraid, excited and reactive. Your dog
seems to tick these three boxes .
https://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB1301


Your pup pretty much showed you what she was at 13 weeks. You have to work with that . Don't exaggerate your expectations --- but do expect and insist on calm behaviour , receptive to your training. Dog needs consistency.


If family members are sabotaging your efforts then they no longer get access to her. She is crated. She is kenneled in the outdoor yard . She is taken out by you , walked and trained and managed in the house by you, fed by you.
 
#26 ·
Then I've said enough .. for one day. But yeah as noted by carmspack, the fence running is a problem! The more he does it the worst it gets. I'm assuming thrown outside during the day because he is a PIA indoors??
When Lexi is outside I don't allow her to be out there without any supervision so either my dad or I are out there with her. I tend to look around to see if anyone is coming by so I can get her attention on me and away from the person walking by but it tends to fail since she's off leash and doesn't come when called, her attention is mostly with whomever she's running for. She also never really listens to anyone once outside the house and on the yard, not even treats work. She also tends to run away from us thinking that we're playing a game when we're not. It's kind of difficult to have her exercise and start some training sessions when her focus is on the people and dogs coming by. I have her on leash nowadays when outside now but it doesn't seem to help.
 
#27 ·
lots of good new information


you need to go right back to the beginning to where you had a 13 week old pup (she was very anxious and going back and forth for a couple of days and wouldn't listen to us as much)
You still have the same dog . There hasn't been any change -- no fear period.
The temperament is just not there "full attention on whoever is passing by our gate, then she begins to lunge and bark and pull on the leash with her hairs on her back standing. "


That is what you have to deal with .


do you feel that there is any bond between this animal and you ?
How do you see this?


In the yard , which is outside, where she doesn't listen to anyone , she is supervised .
" fail since she's off leash and doesn't come when called, her attention is mostly with whomever she's running for" .
So you spend the time to be out there every time - results don't change , she doesn't listen , not off leash and not on leash.
So what is the point .
The dog continues to win .
In her anxious state she reacts to a (non)threat , which goes away, reinforcing her impression on how to make a problem go away.


give her a space to be in which blocks out visual comings and goings of people -- where she can do her business, drink as she needs , and REST.
You can buy kennel kits that need a bit of assembly .


An anxious dog needs to be CALMED . Until such time they can not be receptive to other messages to help her along to changes in behaviour.


The way it is going you can't be in the yard, you can't walk her , she has no bond or respect in or out of the house.


I would reduce it to contact with one person -- YOU -- who will be calm and a good leader who follows through on requests of the dog .
If the family is excitable and emotional about the presence of the dog (and her problems) that does not help you one bit .


Do not let this dog progress into this behaviour pattern , anxious-dog survival resort - to fear aggressive BITE .


lots to think about.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Sounds like you have a classic case, obedience classes don't work, you have to it yourself...how much exercise does she get? The good news is this can be fixed by changing some things that you are doing. Pent up energy is the #1 cause of problems in dogs. I can't stress this enough. Has she ever ran off the leash at a park? Does she release energy on a regular basis? Walks at least twice a day with multiple park visits a week. Once she gets leveled daily walks with one park trip a week can suffice depending on your dog. The key is to make them feel like they have "a job" and routine as they are working dogs this makes them the happiest out of anything in life. However she is still a puppy so this leads me to believe you arent being a calm assertive leader. The single most important thing I can tell you right now, and if you listen to me you will fix this problem, is to star watching episodes of the dog whisperer with Cesar millan. This is how I learned every thing and I still get compliments to this day of how well behaved and trained my dog is. He specialized his whole life in the most aggressive dogs no one wants and rehabilitates them into normal dogs again. 99% of the time he says its the owner and every single episode it proves correct. You'll see many aggressive dogs become normal just search for dog whisperer episodes and watch the ones where the discriprion says its an aggressive case, you will learn so much valuable info and if you do this now while she is young you will never have a problem again and with how I know GSDs I can bet she will probably make a turnaround in days. Please start watching I promise you he shows you very simply how to save an aggressive dog and have a perfectly happy balanced dog!! Please, I know I am a random stranger on the Internet but I really do care about your dog and I KNOW this will fix it, knowledge really is power. I notice you said you are a college student I was 23 when I got my first dog and it was my 4 year old GSD I have right now so you can totally do this I've had a dog trainer come up to me at the dog park and say I had the best behaved dog there and I got this all from watching the dog whisperer you will be surprised at how simple it actually is and once you get in a routine you won't even notice anything life will be so easy with her!
 
#30 · (Edited)
CanadaDry , I can not agree.
I have no issue with Cesar Milan . I believe he has some intuitive talents which were exploited for entertainment and ratings .


Your view point is optimistic.
Mine not so much - at least not without immediate, appropriate changes in management -- and then at best you may have a dog that is manageable. I like the idea of a perfectly happy balanced dog . I don't think this dog will achieve that level -- it is not in his or her make-up , including possibly genetics, early upbringing , current environment and management, problems associated with early spay - maybe feeding , brain chemistry.


A behaviourist may say -- unbalanced , introvert , with neurotic behaviour who has found maladaptive outlets to vent
anxiety .


She is young . She came into that household pretty much the same as she is now .
Add this book to your library
https://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB1301


Maybe in THIS family there will be little change.
Maybe put into a different environment , different dynamics the dog may be less stressed .
 
#33 · (Edited)
There are many misconceptions about Cesar and I know you are in that camp. One is that he "dominates" his dogs which is simply not true. If you read all 4 of his books you would understand this. Also you might be in the camp that believes even the most basic discipline such as time out amount to "torture", these are the same people who think his touches to snap the brain out of its prey drive amount to a hit which is also the furthest thing from the truth. You have to understand he deals only with the most aggressive of dogs which positive reinforcement trainers don't ever deal with these cases. Every case he has rehabilitated a dog that was so aggressive it was about to be put down. He gets results and it works for any dog, it's just that these dog trainers don't want you to learn from him because then guess what..they are out of business! I know you say optimistic, but clearly you have never used his methods (and misinterpret them) so how can you say it's just "optimistic". I promise you if I had that dog I would 100% be able to fix it to a completely happy dog. You just don't know the information that I now and will never have an open mind to it and THATS OK because you use WHAYEVER WORKS FOR YOU and if that's positive reinforcement only then fine! But to say Cesars methods won't work just shows how much you don't understand what he does. I have worked with many dogs in my area too and have had owners send me cards every Christmas because their then aggressive or extremely over energetic dog can now stay at their home and is perfectly balanced. I'm sorry you have so many misconceptions. Your dog can truly be saved and if I had her I would prove it to you. Because you automatically have a biased opinion against his info I fear you will end up getting rid of your dog and that is a shame. What you say could t be further from the truth she can 100% be rehabilitated but just like in EVERY episode YOU are in denial that YOU are the one that needs to change! It's not the dog I promise it's you!!!!! Just watch some episodes with aggressive dogs and have an open mind instead of letting your confirmation bias get in the way. You are literally every owner in those episodes with aggressive dogs and he proves EVERY SINGLE TIME ITS NOT THE DOG IT WHAT YOU ARE DOING he even said 99% of the time it ISNT the dog and he has worked with dogs that have displayed the most crazy aggressive neurotic behavior you can think of! Such a shame............
 
#32 ·
Ok I got a PM form the OP and the good news here, is that she has indeed made a very important first "baby step" with the most basic and fundamental of "Baby Steps!"


I don't recall the "situation" but .. she delivered perhaps her first "effective" correction with ...wait for it ... a finger point! DOg looked up said Oh?? And stopped whatever it was he was doing! So ... yeah a lot of work to done but not as hopeless as it would have appeared. :)
 
#34 ·
Canada dry, your zeal and passion is commendable. I don't believe carmspack is against Cesar Milan personally, or even denies that good can be done with his methods.. What IS difficult (and if I am overstepping carmspack please forgive me) is getting brand new owners to do what he does.. In all the episodes you bring up, many many of the people continue to have difficulties with their dogs, sometimes surrendering them to Cesar because they cannot do what he does and/or there is a genetic flaw that keeps the dog from the necessary changes.. And there are definitely genetic issues at play in some cases.. Yes, they can often be mitigated with appropriate handling but that requires everyone in the family doing what is necessary consistently... A HUGE task... So the fault is not necessarily Cesar, just not everyone can do what he does.. There has to be things that the 'average' person who doesn't dedicate (and it takes immeasurable dedication) their life to changing themselves and how they work with their dog... It is wonderful you can and have changed
. Outstanding! Seriously.. But not everyone can or will commit fully, and still the dog may have inherent flaws that require a skilled and experienced handler... Anyhow, there are camps for each trainer out there, doesn't make the trainer or their followers wrong, just may not be for everyone.. I am pretty sure carmspack is well aware (and is not a positive only) of Cesar's ways and his why's.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Sorry if I come off the wrong way I am just really passionate and believe in what he does. I even volunteer at my local shelter and handle their "bad dogs" (which they really aren't) and I have even helped some families who were going to give up their dog and end up actually keeping them! Some were very easy to handle, others took more work, but I still get Christmas cards every year. Granted none of them were human aggressive to the point of attacking a family member but nonetheless still extremely bad cases. Nothing satisfies me more than changing a dog from "unadoptable" to adoptable and him actually finding a home. But just because I read all of his books and watched every single episode to teach myself I believe anyone can do it just by learning the simple principles and making it a routine in your life. You don't have to do all that I did. Yes he handles thousands of dogs over the years and some families still don't change and give up their dogs to him but the vast majority don't that's a fact you can read all about them online. I just know what I have seen with my own eyes and know it really works. A lot of trainers are biased because it takes away from their business. Many of the top dog behaviorists in the county have written along side him in his books l too.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Um yeah no try again. First I didn't say that and second I volunteer and save dogs lives. What do you do? I said do WHAT WORKS FOR YOU I am not saying it's the only way just because you dedicate you life what matters is results and I get results you can too and THATS FINE why are you getting rubbed the wrong way? Because I have had success without spending thousands of dollars for schools and training? Sorry doesnt make you the be all end all because you did it your whole life what matters is results. My life has been dedicated to this breed so far and will be til the day I die.
 
#39 ·
Sorry I just know that's the #1 reason why people are biased. And he didn't display a few skills for ratings. He started his own dog psychology center in south central LA and took in all of the aggressive neighborhood dogs, Rottweilers, pit bulls, GSDs and former fighting dogs (it want a good neighborhood) and that's how he got his show and built his gigantic psychology center he has today. He literally rehabilitated thousands of dogs. It just shows how little you actually know about him. And I do not mean any offense by that seriously.
 
#42 ·
I've seen it in his shows, especially with dogs that are a bit fearful. He does immersion methods, basically overwhelming the dog until it is forced to react.

When he explains how he handles things, his answers are always "the dog is showing dominance"
How about the dog with the pigs? That was a case where he bungled everything from the beginning. Instead of using methods that would have kept both dogs and pigs safe and slowly worked with the dog, he pushed the dog past its limits and things went wrong.

Yes, I said that some of his things work. But exercise and discipline is NOT training. And he doesn't teach people to handle their dogs. Bandaid approahes

The Anti-Cesar Millan / Ian Dunbar's been succeeding for 25 years with lure-reward dog training; how come he's been usurped by the flashy, aggressive TV host? - SFGate
 
#43 · (Edited)
Sigh again another myth. With the fearful dogs he uses repetitions of the thing they are fearful of. For example if they are scared of going up the stairs you are suppose to have established trust with the dog then calmly and confidently take him up the stairs, it takes a bit of coaxing but you must be calm and he will eventually go. The more you do this the more he gets over his fear. Some people are so crazy about their animals they can't bear to see the dog be uncomfortable for 10 seconds to finally have a lifetime of no fear. It's sad really. It's proven that the dog gets over it and lives a perfectly fine life going up and down the stairs with zero "problems down the road" that is spread by those people who think those 10 -20 seconds of uncomfortableness is abuse . There is a section in one of his books about it with other top behaviorists writing in on it too. It absolutely does not cause "problems down the road" this would have been discovered a long long time ago just think about it there is zero evidence of that in fact its the opposite its one method of getting them of their fears.

And the pig thing was ridiculous as it was rightfully dropped by the courts and he was fully exonerated. They were both walking around fine by the end of the episode and the ear healed perfectly. It was started by those same people who spread those myths. Most people know this...

Again this isn't the only method, do whatever works for you as I've said a bunch of times, but it works and is backed up by scientists in the field. I know there are people who disagree but you need to have an open mind and see the results and science for themselves.
 
#48 ·
Come on, really? People are allowed their idols, opinions and preferences without being challenged.. And the opposite is true for those that feel differently to those who favor a certain trainer.. This thread was made to help someone else, not rip into those who don't hold similar viewpoints... The OP, anyone for that matter can read and absorb or discard what they think will work for them. There is no need to defend a trainer or bash a trainer...
 
#51 ·
I love Caesar and yes he has a special gift with dogs and he uses his talent l to help so many dogs that were going to be either euthanized or dumped. He gets paid well (doesn't mean he is a sell out - people usually make a living according to their skill/talent/gift) and does so much good for so many dogs. People go to him when they tried a multitude of failed trainers. Experienced animal people do like Cesar - because someone likes Ceasar does not mean they are not experienced animal people-such BS -some have their feathers ruffled by his success or because he doesn't follow their "rules written in stone". He gets results and saves the dogs most often from death row. Most often I will hear a person/trainer say Ceasar will get the owner injured. I can not figure this out as Ceasar clearly does not expect or want the owners to do what he does this is more then clear and Teaches the owners what they are capable of doing with their dog and it's just not exercise. Many talented people make things look easy doesn't mean anyone can go out and do the same- it is never the intention. I also hear Ceasar make it sounds like it is a quick fix- I have never got that impression at all and it is usually a life changer for the owner. I also never heard of anyone of Cesar clients complain about him or had to go to another trainer.
 
#59 ·
Did you ever hear of the ---- Let me keep your dog for thirty days of the best possible training your dog could ever get? And after 30 days at the behavioral professional center or in the "Pack" ----Ohhhhh I'll give you one of my dogs from my pack I can't fix your dog... Not a happy customer I assure you. It's their dog for gawd sake...

That's just one example, I know, but please listen to me on this one thing---- there are unhappy customers in every business unfortunately.

"you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time" <<< I didn't just make that up today!


So what do ya do? Well in that world ya scream CUT edit the film and roll on..

Dude has some skill I will not lie But Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..

OK I'm done...
 
#53 · (Edited)
Thank you for actually understand his real ways.


Yeah and he actually got all of his expert help before the show even happened. Once Jada Pinkette Smith discovered him a lot of celebrities went to him and he used those connections to work with some of the best behaviorists in the country. Daddy (his famous PitBull) used to be the rapper Red Mans dog. This was all before the show. Im just grateful it has helped me foster many dogs from "unadoptable" to finding a forever home. And I think it can help the OP too.
 
#60 ·
Did you ever hear of the ---- Let me keep your dog for thirty days of the best possible training your dog could ever get? And after 30 days at the behavioral professional center or in the "Pack" ----Ohhhhh I'll give you one of my dogs from my pack I can't fix your dog... Not a happy customer I assure you. It's their dog for gawd sake

Just a thought here... Proof that training is not always effective when it is a genetic problem... Only well versed people can handle those cases.. As to Cesar Millan in those cases, it was always the clients choice and some chose to keep their dog.. Others preferred the exchange because they couldn't do handle the problems with their dog....

I personally believe you can learn alot from anyone.. Even if it is what not to do or what you never want to try... It requires using our minds and formulating our own opinions due to our beliefs and experiences.. Not because a TV show, the Internet or some trainer from petsmart or some other place says to do something... Common sense is lacking in the world today and can cause alot of problems...
 
#61 ·
Did you ever hear of the ---- Let me keep your dog for thirty days of the best possible training your dog could ever get? And after 30 days at the behavioral professional center or in the "Pack" ----Ohhhhh I'll give you one of my dogs from my pack I can't fix your dog... Not a happy customer I assure you. It's their dog for gawd sake

Just a thought here... Proof that training is not always effective when it is a genetic problem... Only well versed people can handle those cases.. As to Cesar Millan in those cases, it was always the clients choice and some chose to keep their dog.. Others preferred the exchange because they couldn't do handle the problems with their dog....

I personally believe you can learn alot from anyone.. Even if it is what not to do or what you never want to try... It requires using our minds and formulating our own opinions due to our beliefs and experiences.. Not because a TV show, the Internet or some trainer from petsmart or some other place says to do something... Common sense is lacking in the world today and can cause a lot of problems...
I thought you were going to pick back up on that DNA thingy, pert quickly (as said in the south). EXCELLLLLLLEEENNNNT POINT! You have and con't to make it so well. Amazing! TY so much for sharing this with all. Some people may now understand why I am so concerned with the whole rescue and release thingy. ie.... here take this dog, I have no idea about it's genetics but make sure you do the right thing for the dog... Hello!

My point was also directed mainly at the comment that said something like "I have never seen a unhappy customer from Cesars" UH huh and well um Jada let me stop... :grin2:
 
#63 · (Edited)
Friends, Forum members , countrymen , lend me your ears,
I do not come to bury Caesar, nor to praise him

taking liberty with a little bit of Shakespeare -


the dogs that Cesar dealt with , boy I really really do not want to dwell on him, (trying
to bring it back to the OP's dog) were probably OK dogs who deteriorated in behaviour
because of bad , indulgent, spoiled , no limits management.

The OP's dog as I have said many times came into the house with a temperament problem evident .
That is DNA -- (plus) . Both parents may have been nut bars .
There are periods were a pup is impressionable to human contact and must have quality and quantity contact.
Those are well documented in Fuller and Scott , Bar Harbor reports , and Pfaffenberger. If that quality
pleasant contact was not provided during the critical time then the dog will not have trust, bond, or integrate into a mutually useful , healthy/happy human-dog relationship.

Both these conditions, DNA/genetics , early life experience , could be responsible for this dog's problems.
Repeat -- he/she came into the house at 13 weeks , with temperament and social problems.

The folks at Bar Harbor couldn't rehab those dogs -- Cesar wouldn't be able to either . They would end up at the "Acres"
running with the other dogs . That isn't rehabbed .
 
#66 · (Edited)
The folks at Bar Harbor couldn't rehab those dogs -- Cesar wouldn't be able to either . They would end up at the "Acres"
running with the other dogs . That isn't rehabbed .
So a guy with 10k forum posts on the Internet and he acts like he is some huge expert and knows better than what much of science says? Sorry many of the things he has said in other posts is also wrong. You take any real behaviorist and I promise you they will find flaws in what he is saying.

You say their parents MAY have been nut bars, yet you have no idea. DNA and genetics as the cause would present a much worse case then he describes. Are you saying no puppy that has ever been brought home has had behavioral problems? And that they never get better? Again, every expert will tell you, the very LAST thing you should say is it is a DNA problem until YOUVE TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE. It is actually RARE and I highly doubt the OP does unless you can prove for 100% certain so for you to automatically say that because he didn't respond to your methods is extremely harmful and can result in getting the dog PUT DOWN if the OP takes your word for everything.

I am not just making this up, this is all science and I dedicate my life to dogs as well.

The folks at Far Harbor are the be all end all? Ok let me say this, almost EVERY SINGLE EPISODE on the dog whisperer he works with people who have taken their dogs to MANY place like Far Harbor (not just one place, a few different) and NONE of them could help and they ALL gave up on them. The first 10 minutes of every episode has the families describe their situation and I can't tell you how many of them talk about Far Harbor and places like that. GUESS WHAT HAPPENES WHEN HE GETS A HOLD OF THEM, THEY GET FULLY REHABILITATED as proof by the thousands of dogs he has saved and HUNDREDS of happy owners AFTER THE SHOW to this day.

By your first line (BOY I really really don't want to dwell on him) hmm is it maybe possible that you are just very biased against him? This is a lesson for life, not everyone is always right not every "expert" is correct and until people think objectively and see things for yourself you will never know. You can't just simple take some biased persons opinion, what 10k posts and a lot of reading makes him the only source of possible knowledge? Sure his ways work, but there are other ways that work even better and have a long proven track record backed by science. I just can't believe how laughable it is because the folks at Far Harbor you think it's automatic yet EVERY person who has been on the show are literally at their last legs after trying every Far Harbor type place out there that is why he selects them because it is literally their last shot before the dog gets put down and guess what 99% of them TO THIS DAY after 10 seasons and counting STILL ate living good lives with those dogs. But as they say, ignorance is truly bliss, if you don't agree with him fine but what you are saying just simply isn't true.
 
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