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Please help- Male 20 month GSD bite the dog walker!

16K views 124 replies 28 participants last post by  wyoung2153 
#1 ·
Hi all

My dog is 20 month old, 90lb pure bred male GSD (not neutered). I did some training for him earlier when he was a puppy, but not much after her got age 6-7 month, me and my ex boyfriend were together since he was 8 weeks, my ex was spoiling him over the weekends, I broke up with the BF 2 month back and two days later my sister came to my house in which the dog have not seen here in like 10 month, he blasted from the garage inside the house, chased her and bite her arm, we had to take her to urgent care and she got 2 stitches and luckily animal control was not called.
I immediately started to look for solutions and contacted several trainers here in LA and was referred to someone like 30 mile away in which they were very recommended, I signed him up on same day for 3 weeks boot camp (around $3500) and he stayed there for 3 weeks and I would go there every 4-5 days to get trained with him as well, they trained him good on obedience like sit, down, place, come, heel ... and since I brought him home 2 weeks I have been doing what they trained me to do with food of course.

Chase have a dog walker since he was 6 month old, he comes every day walk him for 30 min, sometimes twice a day while I'm at work except the weekends. Yesterday I was playing a ball catch with him in the backyard just before the dog walker time to come in as he seemed bored and I wanted to exercise him and I was home anyway, the dog walker showed up in the backyard like that I did not hear him coming and Chase went to him barking and was on high alert, then he was happy and the dog walker played a bit with him and took out for a walk. Today again I was staying home sitting room when dog walker opened the door (he has a key) and chase was happy to see him, the dog walker got in the kitchen to get the leash and came close to Chase food plate which was on the floor and chase started to growl at him, I immediately got up and said NO NO and tried to hold his pinch collar to correct him the way how's the trainers taught me but Chase just snapped and looked like he wanted to bite me then dog walker started to stop him by holding his collar and he just was mad and bite him on his hand, we pushed him back in the yard, closed the door and rushed the walker to the urgent care, he got few stitches on his hand and the dr gave him med, he didn't fill out the animal control papers.

I called the trainers at the boot camp and they told me not to call the animal control and they will give him more training but seemed to want to make more money, I then called another trainer who initially didn't agree to take him before I sign up to the bootcamp because the dog was not fixed. He was nice and promised to called the bootcamp people so they give me more free training, I then took him to the vet to check him out to roll out any issue causing this aggression, signed him up to be neutered next week and I asked the vet to give me some med to calm him down until next week and they advised me to call a behaviorist they know.

My dog is very sweet boy however he is full of energy alpha male, when I walk him outside he is always on major alert, he looks around and is very alerted to every single person or dog walk by, he used to bark at other dogs but the training fixed this problem a lot but he still kind of like: I'm in control, I'm the master type of attitude that he always in! I'm working on showing him that I'm the one who control everything and he needs to respect and listen, I have been training him all day long like sit, down, NO, stay ...

I'm very upset, I love him so much, I don't want him to hurt anyone else, I don't want them to put him down, I feel very bad, I don't know what went wrong and I have been crying all day, this is costing me so much money and I'm not sure if the below plans will work or should I make the decision that Chase is just aggressive and he wont be a normal dog and do something about it?

Here is the plan:
1- He is on some calming med now until next week, he usually sleep in my bedroom but I'm going to keep him out of the bedroom from now on and lock the door, as I don't want him to snap at me while I'm sleeping!
2- neuter him next week and I hope after 2-4 weeks this would calm him down? is it too late? have anyone here neutered his/her male GSD and saw improvements?
3- Go see the behaviorist as soon as he passes his post op time, may be a week or two
4- take him back to the bootcamp trainers or go to a different one here in LA? what else would they train him for?

Chase is very protective and I'm very concerned that is not seeing a difference between a stranger that showing sign to hurt me or family/ dog walker ..., is there any hope for him, please enlighten me, give me everything you have learned that helped your dogs, I don't want to give up on him but again I have responsibility here and I need to be realistic if a dog bite twice in a month and half period, then what are his chances of ever changing that? how does anyone can make a heart breaking decision to let him go because such dog is just a dominant alpha police line type of GSD as per boot camp trainers!

Please please help me, if you love your dog and have any advise to help me and Chase I would be forever grateful for you for spending the time to just type me an answer.

I'm willing to spend more on training and on the behaviorist and of course no more dog walker and I will do the walk/ jog with him.

They crated him at the boocamp but I have never crated him here, I guess I need to buy a huge crate :(.

Thanks
Linda
 
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#45 ·
Beachgirl,

The best thing you can do is work with your trainer and keep Nadia in the loop. She knows her dogs. This stuff happens it's best to stay in touch with your breeder and understand that she has a family, kennel so don't get too angry if she doesn't get back with you right away.

If she can recommend another trainer meet with him/her as well.

The best thing is to have a trainer that knows German Shepherds and dealing with aggression.

Nadia may be able to get you set up with a trainer that works in IPO because those trainers know shepherds and know how to read dogs. Keep that in mind if you don't get results with your new trainer.
 
#48 ·
Thank you! I trust Nadia and she is a great breeder, she never failed me. I love Chase he is everything to me.

I'm not angry, sorry if I sounded like that, it has been very difficult for me. I would for sure recommend Nadia and her dogs for anyone. Her dogs are the most beautiful dog I ever seen and they are so perfect in every way you can imagine, Chase may not be the perfect example behavior wise but this not her problem, its my problem and mistake!
When I said that why would return the dog to a breeder as I don't know what they will do to him other than put him down, I have no idea what their options are.
 
#49 · (Edited)
Yeah, I understand. You mentioned she didn't get back to you for a couple days and didn't care but I know you were probably feeling stressed.

I know this is a scary problem and it is serious and that should not be taken lightly.

But....do take a breath....

Don't become overwhelmed trying to get this fixed especially over the Internet.

One step at a time. Keep Nadia up to date on how things are going. Let her help you.

If the new trainer isn't getting results it's o.k. to go with another trainer, especially one that she recommends. I know of a IPO trainer in LA that may be able to help. I'll send information over PM tomorrow, just keep it in case you need it.

This problem didn't happen overnight so it will take some time to correct it.

Hang in there, your dog has a good pedigree, if his genetics are good it should help him bounce back and be the wonderful dog you always wanted.
 
#52 ·
Ok cool. My last post was in response and in fear of you taking the dog to Animal Control. I did not want to see the dog put down before the breeder had a chance to give him a chance.

It sounds like you found someone whose method the dog responds to. Some of the meds to calm do the opposite on some dogs. My parents' dog had epilepsy and the vet gave him valium. Valium made Cujo pretty hyped up. If you are feeling good about the trainer, I would probably ditch the calming medication as it doesn't seem to be working. Or, you can call the vet that prescribed it, and describe the response the dog had, maybe they have heard of something like that, and have another choice that works on dogs that don't seem to get the desired effect from the drug.
 
#53 ·

I am glad you found hope and perspective for you and chase.

Regarding the breeder: Imo the breeder has some responsibility in this case.

As a breeder of high energy WL GSD's you must make sure the buyer has the experience to handle such dog. Otherwise you are setting buyer and your progeny up for failure.
You must keep notes on health, nerve stabillity and overall demeanour, this information is vital to evaluate the lines you are breeding. If by any reason you fail all the above, when there is trouble you must offer support all the way.

Please keep posting on your progression with Chase.
 
#55 ·
I am glad you found hope and perspective for you and chase.

Regarding the breeder: Imo the breeder has some responsibility in this case.

As a breeder of high energy WL GSD's you must make sure the buyer has the experience to handle such dog. Otherwise you are setting buyer and your progeny up for failure.
You must keep notes on health, nerve stability and overall demeanor, this information is vital to evaluate the lines you are breeding. If by any reason you fail all the above, when there is trouble you must offer support all the way.

Please keep posting on your progression with Chase.
I agree that any breeder of such dogs have responsibility to whom they sell these dogs to, they should make sure to at least educate the buyer of how to handle the dogs and get training as soon as these puppies come home. In Chase case he had several issues since I got him when he was 8 weeks, first I found out he has some kind of hernia when the vet checked him for some etching issues, vet assured me that they will go by itself and if not they will fix it plus they found that he has some bend in his tail a sign of he may got bitten or injured before I get him, it was not something you can see it but at the bottom of his tail which you can feel it, something that someone later told me that with this issue this dog will not be able to compete in these IPO or whatever they call them, 2nd few month later another vet found he has some kind of a bony growth on one of his leg not the part he walk on so its not affecting his walking, the vet said it looks genetic and it was and still of half golf ball size, so the poor dog has three issues two of them may be genetic and who knows if the 3rd one is also genetic. Now I don't know if his extremely alpha high energy is also genetic.
I have scheduled more training with the trainer who saw him two days back but I don't know if I feel this may not work I may just call the breeder to see what they can do. I don't want this dog to get hurts or hurt more people.

I'm drained financially! I pay around $1000 every month to the dog walker to walk him mid day when I'm at work and some days the dog walker comes twice if I see that I will be home late so Chase gets enough exercise and see people during the day, I have hired several trainers so far and still have to pay the new one for indefinite time and not even sure if this will work or not.
 
#56 ·
At this point it doesn't matter Chip. What's done is done. BG understands what happened.


Beachgirl I will be sending you the IPO trainer information shortly. Check your private messages a little later.

Also, Beachgirl, don't worry about some of the comments here. I suggest you focus on getting you and Chase on the right track. :)
 
#67 ·
He gets a 30 min walk in the morning and another 30 min walk mid day around noon and 3-4 times a week he gets another 30 min walk or play ball in back yard around 3:00 PM and he gets play ball for 15 min, energetic ball catch in back yard around 5:00- 6:00 PM every single day. PLUS weekend hikes.
What does your dog get?
 
#58 ·
I just PMd you trainer information.

He messaged me said he would be glad to help you out.

Give him a call and maybe get a feel for if he's the right trainer for you. He is very experienced with German Shepherds.

He can also discuss exercise needs in more detail as MAWL suggests.
 
#62 ·
@Selzer.

You are right i mist the pedigree.
I have been breeding WL Gsd's for decades.
However it does not matter if they were showlines. It is still my reponsibility to insure that my dogs go to a good home where they can thrive and be all i wanted them to be.
Buyers were verified thoroughly on experience,commitment, and why they wanted a Gsd in the first place. Many left without a pup.
For first time owners it's not enough to want a dog. A Gsd requires a Gsd owner not just a regular dog owner.
If by any reason i misjudge a buyer then i owe it to the dog i bred to do every thing in my power to help. I will even take the dog back if the situation was hopeless.

I strongly believe that if every breeder made the same effort, then there would be much less Gsd in trouble.
 
#63 ·
Start another thread then in general. Stop second guessing over the internet.

You do NOT know both sides of this story, you do NOT know this breeder and you do NOT know the dog owner.

The most important thing is that the dog owner stay in touch with this breeder and get the training help she needs.

@Selzer.

You are right i mist the pedigree.
I have been breeding WL Gsd's for decades.
However it does not matter if they were showlines. It is still my reponsibility to insure that my dogs go to a good home where they can thrive and be all i wanted them to be.
Buyers were verified thoroughly on experience,commitment, and why they wanted a Gsd in the first place. Many left without a pup.
For first time owners it's not enough to want a dog. A Gsd requires a Gsd owner not just a regular dog owner.
If by any reason i misjudge a buyer then i owe it to the dog i bred to do every thing in my power to help. I will even take the dog back if the situation was hopeless.

I strongly believe that if every breeder made the same effort, then there would be much less Gsd in trouble.
 
#64 ·
Very interesting thread. I'm just glad the OP seemed to have found a good trainer that works for her. Wishing the OP luck and looking forward to positive updates as Chase progresses in training.

only one other comment.. get him off the Ace. Twice OP has seen Chase go bonkers and act like a nut job shortly after using Ace. Clear sign that it's having the opposite effect.
 
#75 · (Edited)
I have dogs similar in nature to yours. I've been down the path you are going down and the confusion you feel. So I'm not trying to 'talk down' to you o.k.? This comes from a place of someone who knows how you feel. It's frustrating and scary.

So from a place of wanting to help you succeed with your dog I strongly suggest the following.

1) Please contact the trainer I PM'd you about. At least meet with him and get an evaluation.

2) Work with him or a trainer like him who has experience with German Shepherds bred for work. That is very important.

3) Keep Nadia in the loop. She knows her dogs and has been supportive to her other puppy owners in the past, I am friends with several.

4) Practice, practice what the trainer tells you to practice on. If you have questions or things aren't working let your trainer know so he can help you.

5) If after the above you feel this dog is too much for you and your lifestyle then at least you tried your best and consider returning him to your breeder.

and....

The internet is a great place for advice. I learn a lot here too, but it's more for cut and dried type advice. Your problem is too entrenched with too many variables for it to be effectively and safely worked through with internet advice.

The one professional trainer has posted also recommended finding a good trainer (Bailiff).

Many of the people posting (myself included) are not trainers on top of the fact that they are not there to really see what is going on and what your dog is doing or not doing. How you are handling him. That's why I recommend a trainer I know is good rather then telling you what to do.

With that I wish you the best of luck. I hope you can work it out and keep your gorgeous boy. If not please let Nadia know.
 
#77 ·
I am so sorry for your experience. I know several dogs from that litter and they are just fantastic. I love Olivia, one of her pups just competed in Eukanuba dock diving in Orlando and received Best American at a national show.

I myself have two dogs from the kennel and obsessed with them both.

I would work with a good trainer, who will not abuse your dog. And rule out any health concerns that could cause behavior issues such as thyroid. It can happen to any dog, any bloodline.

Best of wishes.
 
#81 ·
I don't know Beachgirl. When you posted your message for help on Christmas day, it sounded like you were in a very bad situation. I PM'd Bailiff a trainer to see if he could help. He gave recommendations. How are those working out?

I had suggested that you really choose a trainer wisely this time and actually check on any recommendations given by the potential trainer. Bailiff suggested ways to calm the situation in order to buy you the time to choose your help wisely.....

I don't see where any of that happened.....
 
#84 · (Edited)
I would work with Christmas guy for 6-8 weeks. Keep a daily journal on the the dog's behavior, walks, exercise, training, comments, and set a goal. After 6 or 8 weeks, check back to where you were and look at where you are, and see if it is helping or not, and if it is doing what you expected.

Sometimes our expectations are unrealistic and we have to adjust them. But sometimes we just don't see the progress because we are living through it, and small changes do not look like much until they build up, and then they are huge.

You have to be open minded to become good at training. Someone said that you didn't sign up to be a trainer, but you bought a GSD. So, really, you did. ALL GSDs need training, and the person that needs to do the training is the owner. The person we pay, we are paying to train us to train the dog.

So we have to be open to see what we are doing wrong and what we could do better. Otherwise, you are wasting your money, and wasting your dog.

Good luck.

ETA: In therapy there is a saying about not having gotten this way overnight. You don't fix these things overnight. What you are looking for is progress. No one has a magic wand that will make this problem go away. Cesar can't come to your house and fix your dog in 30 minutes or less like he does on the TV. This is a process. A journey. There is no hurry to get to the goal, because then you just have to move the goal another 100 yards or so down and start something new. I think that sometimes it is better to take your time and get a good foundation.
 
#85 ·
It's up to Linda (OP) which trainer she chooses. I agree with SV, research the trainers, have an evaluation and then choose the one that is best. That's why I suggested and evaluation first.

Ideally the breeder could also recommend a trainer, as she offered, that knows WGSLs better too.

But- This sounds like a PO trainer, lots of PO buzz words. "Competitive play", "positive communication".

"in the trainer opinion this is competitive play and would make the dog aggressive."

Playing two ball does not make a dog aggressive.

It's on Linda how she wants to proceed.
 
#89 ·
"in the trainer opinion this is competitive play and would make the dog aggressive."

Playing two ball does not make a dog aggressive.

It's on Linda how she wants to proceed.
I wondered about this, if "agitated" may not have been the word intended instead of aggressive. That would make more sense as there is a bit of frustration in two ball - the minute they think they have captured the "trophy" the trophy has changed....

If this trainer meant that and "hang out" was really a kind of modified two week time out to help reset this dog - I could understand what he is trying to do.... just a little time keeping the dog out of any kind of agitated state....
 
#88 · (Edited)
Thanks, yeah, it is selzer, that's my name.

Most PO people are PM at the most. I don't really believe there is any such thing as PO. Perhaps, this trainer listened to the whole story, and decided, like I think, that trying to physically force this dog to comply and behave is going to be bad. You are not going to make a great dog out of this animal by brute force. Sorry.

If the dog is WGSL, they do very good with good PR training. I rarely use more than a verbal negative marker or a change in tone with my dogs. Works just fine. But as with any training, you have to be consistent, and have good timing.

I really don't have enough experience with working line dogs. This is not a working line dog. But if working line dogs cannot be managed using Positive Mostly training, then who would want them? Really?

We have already tried the alpha roll crap, and yank on the prong collar crap with this dog (or was it the other youngster?). Hope I am not getting them mixed up. If we are getting results with a regimen of positive training methods, why not???

Just because it didn't work with one of your dogs, doesn't mean it will not work with this one. This is a young dog that needs a better bond with the owners, and trust needs to be reestablished. It can be done with any training method that is predictable, clear, well-timed, and that the OWNER is willing to try/accept/believe in.

Positive is not permissive. Too many people do not get that, and their dogs suffer because of it.
 
#90 ·
OP- my thoughts are that at some point instead of hiring people to do the work for you, you just need to get out there, get your hands dirty, and work and manage the dog you have in front of you. It will be difficult, sometimes you'll fail or have bad days, but when you succeed, it is an incredible joy. Training is a lifetime deal, though. There are no simple fixes.

Be aware, some of this is just management. For example, I have a bunch of family for the holidays, and one of my dogs simply does not have contact with them. Ever. It is not that hard. I want everyone both safe and happy. This dog would probably just bark at them, and I could certainly put him in OB mode and have him out and about with the family, but it's a completely unnecessary risk. Knowing your dog is half the battle.

My other dogs can go out and play fetch with the kids, and even tug. Not this one. That's fine- it's not necessary. Likewise, maybe your dog doesn't need to greet guests. That's OK. I am very clear with family that one of my dogs is not for petting. Totally OK, it would be much worse if I wasn't clear and there was an issue. You don't need to make excuses. While I'd prefer my dogs were fine with guests, I can't wave a wand and fix it. Really not an easy fix. Manage it.

I understand the difficulty in finding a good trainer. I've been there, searching for help with a type of dog I've never worked with before. I actually never ended up hiring a trainer because I never found one locally who I could work with. I sought out help from reliable, experienced sources, tried a few different things, messed up a few times, tried something else, messed up again, and then finally broke through and got it and we clicked. I still make mistakes in training, I still need advice, but I now have the tools and knowledge of the dog mind and how training works to know what I need to do- the trick is sometimes just following through and being consistent.

There are some great books out there, too, and quite a few good videos as well. Read a couple good training books, watch a few good videos, but spend most of your time working with the dog! That is how you'll learn. Nobody can teach you that part.

Finally, I researched ACE a lot one time because I carried it as a sedative just in case on long backpacking trips. I would never, never use it unless I had no other choice. It is a scary drug- my understanding is the dog is very aware but his body won't respond. Vets say it increases the risk of bites because the dog loses inhibitions. Not at all what I'd recommend as a daily sedative. In fact I'd consider it irresponsible of the vet to prescribe it for that use, honestly.

But if training for the life of the dog isn't what you wanted, I'd return him to the breeder. Please don't ever send this dog to Animal Control. Shepherds in general don't do well at the pound. I'm guessing there is a clause in your puppy contract on breeder first refusal. The breeder is your best resource right now.
 
#102 ·
Finally, I researched ACE a lot one time because I carried it as a sedative just in case on long backpacking trips. I would never, never use it unless I had no other choice. It is a scary drug- my understanding is the dog is very aware but his body won't respond. Vets say it increases the risk of bites because the dog loses inhibitions. Not at all what I'd recommend as a daily sedative. In fact I'd consider it irresponsible of the vet to prescribe it for that use, honestly.
ACE is a nasty drug. No idea where the OP got her hands on it, I don't now a single vet that would prescribe it for general use, but she needs to dump it. The behavior she say 1.5 hours after giving it is no uncommon. This is NOT a "calming" drug. Period. If you want a "calming" drug then talk to your vet about prozac.
 
#95 ·
I would not play tug with a dog who has resource guarding/aggression issues. Resource guarding can go from food to toys to people. Tug can be used to increase confidence in dogs and it is not necessarily bad, but I wouldn't use it in this case.
 
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