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Please help- Male 20 month GSD bite the dog walker!

16K views 124 replies 28 participants last post by  wyoung2153 
#1 ·
Hi all

My dog is 20 month old, 90lb pure bred male GSD (not neutered). I did some training for him earlier when he was a puppy, but not much after her got age 6-7 month, me and my ex boyfriend were together since he was 8 weeks, my ex was spoiling him over the weekends, I broke up with the BF 2 month back and two days later my sister came to my house in which the dog have not seen here in like 10 month, he blasted from the garage inside the house, chased her and bite her arm, we had to take her to urgent care and she got 2 stitches and luckily animal control was not called.
I immediately started to look for solutions and contacted several trainers here in LA and was referred to someone like 30 mile away in which they were very recommended, I signed him up on same day for 3 weeks boot camp (around $3500) and he stayed there for 3 weeks and I would go there every 4-5 days to get trained with him as well, they trained him good on obedience like sit, down, place, come, heel ... and since I brought him home 2 weeks I have been doing what they trained me to do with food of course.

Chase have a dog walker since he was 6 month old, he comes every day walk him for 30 min, sometimes twice a day while I'm at work except the weekends. Yesterday I was playing a ball catch with him in the backyard just before the dog walker time to come in as he seemed bored and I wanted to exercise him and I was home anyway, the dog walker showed up in the backyard like that I did not hear him coming and Chase went to him barking and was on high alert, then he was happy and the dog walker played a bit with him and took out for a walk. Today again I was staying home sitting room when dog walker opened the door (he has a key) and chase was happy to see him, the dog walker got in the kitchen to get the leash and came close to Chase food plate which was on the floor and chase started to growl at him, I immediately got up and said NO NO and tried to hold his pinch collar to correct him the way how's the trainers taught me but Chase just snapped and looked like he wanted to bite me then dog walker started to stop him by holding his collar and he just was mad and bite him on his hand, we pushed him back in the yard, closed the door and rushed the walker to the urgent care, he got few stitches on his hand and the dr gave him med, he didn't fill out the animal control papers.

I called the trainers at the boot camp and they told me not to call the animal control and they will give him more training but seemed to want to make more money, I then called another trainer who initially didn't agree to take him before I sign up to the bootcamp because the dog was not fixed. He was nice and promised to called the bootcamp people so they give me more free training, I then took him to the vet to check him out to roll out any issue causing this aggression, signed him up to be neutered next week and I asked the vet to give me some med to calm him down until next week and they advised me to call a behaviorist they know.

My dog is very sweet boy however he is full of energy alpha male, when I walk him outside he is always on major alert, he looks around and is very alerted to every single person or dog walk by, he used to bark at other dogs but the training fixed this problem a lot but he still kind of like: I'm in control, I'm the master type of attitude that he always in! I'm working on showing him that I'm the one who control everything and he needs to respect and listen, I have been training him all day long like sit, down, NO, stay ...

I'm very upset, I love him so much, I don't want him to hurt anyone else, I don't want them to put him down, I feel very bad, I don't know what went wrong and I have been crying all day, this is costing me so much money and I'm not sure if the below plans will work or should I make the decision that Chase is just aggressive and he wont be a normal dog and do something about it?

Here is the plan:
1- He is on some calming med now until next week, he usually sleep in my bedroom but I'm going to keep him out of the bedroom from now on and lock the door, as I don't want him to snap at me while I'm sleeping!
2- neuter him next week and I hope after 2-4 weeks this would calm him down? is it too late? have anyone here neutered his/her male GSD and saw improvements?
3- Go see the behaviorist as soon as he passes his post op time, may be a week or two
4- take him back to the bootcamp trainers or go to a different one here in LA? what else would they train him for?

Chase is very protective and I'm very concerned that is not seeing a difference between a stranger that showing sign to hurt me or family/ dog walker ..., is there any hope for him, please enlighten me, give me everything you have learned that helped your dogs, I don't want to give up on him but again I have responsibility here and I need to be realistic if a dog bite twice in a month and half period, then what are his chances of ever changing that? how does anyone can make a heart breaking decision to let him go because such dog is just a dominant alpha police line type of GSD as per boot camp trainers!

Please please help me, if you love your dog and have any advise to help me and Chase I would be forever grateful for you for spending the time to just type me an answer.

I'm willing to spend more on training and on the behaviorist and of course no more dog walker and I will do the walk/ jog with him.

They crated him at the boocamp but I have never crated him here, I guess I need to buy a huge crate :(.

Thanks
Linda
 
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#3 ·
I believe what you saw was the dog coming up at the handler when corrected physically in a way the dog feels is unfair.

Then you saw misdirected aggression when the dog walker tried to help you, the dog switched the aggression to him.

Where did you go wrong? I don't know. The household dynamics have changed and the dog is growing into his adult personality. I would have him neutered ASAP, and I am not a fan of neutering.

I don't think boot camps are generally a good thing, because the owner usually needs as much training as the dog. The dog has zero confidence in you as his leader, and is making bad choices because he is a dog. So, you and the dog need to learn together.

Trying to physically over-power this dog isn't going to work. He has shown that he will bite. This doesn't mean he is going to get it into his head to bite you while you sleep. Not at all. But if you try to physically punish him, force him off the bed or furniture, force him into a position he does not like, he will bite.

He will, unless you get him back under control. The way to do this -- you will need a competent trainer. I think it can be done, without physical force, by improving your own stature, being consistent with training, follow through, clear commands, praise and correction with proper timing. Ditch the dumb prong collar -- this dog isn't going to listen to that. You need to make following what you want the dog to do, what the dog wants to do. You need to make him think you are better than chopped liver. You can do this. But it will be work.

Sometimes it will mean ignoring his desire to push you into giving him a treat or playing with him. You need to use treats to get his A-game out of him, and when you get that, then he gets something good. Reward him with a game of fetch, and then more training. Have him constantly attentive to you, trying to please you. Ignore or reprove substandard performance. Training is the key, but it has to be good training. Think quality time.

Stand up straight. Not, "no-no." NO! You need to feel bigger, stronger, tougher than this dog without ever proving it physically.

You love the dog, we get that. But the dog has bitten two people already, and you are right to be concerned. We need to get you hooked up with someone who knows what they are doing with a dog that is willing to stick up for himself.

Maybe this is a case for Dave Winners. You might try PMing him. Not sure what the rules are for new members though.
 
#4 ·
So sorry you are having to go through this. I just wanted to say, many times when people have dog bite problems and post here - you can see pretty quickly what has gone wrong. Some won't take any suggestions to help and some take every suggestion and end up with a hodge podge of methods that can clash.

You have been very responsible with this dog. You have done what many won't or can't do to ensure the best for him and that's great! I agree with getting him fixed because if you don't - you will simply not know if that will be of help or not.

It may seem that the situation is hopeless right now but you also show that you are ready and willing to keep trying. Your pup is so lucky to have you for an owner.:) Anyway, don't despair - I think it would do you good to relax and enjoy the holidays and give yourself a break so you can regroup. Just keep your dog in normal routines that you know there's no problem with. Keep him away from people and calm to avoid unexpected conflict until you get a qualified trainer.

In the mean time, there will be good advise here and perhaps a referral to someone in your area. IMO you need to learn what questions to ask a trainer in order to pick the right one for your dog with this specific problem. If you can get referrals actually contact the referrals to hear what they have to say. You want to be sure this time..... There's plenty of places as you've learned that will be happy to continue taking your money and not delivering the results you need.

You might want to put up a separate post with how to select a trainer so people who know can give you specific suggestions on this and your title will draw their eye to the question.

Best of luck to you and your pup.:)
 
#5 ·
Thanks a lot Stonevintage, yuriy and selzer .

I'm willing to do what it takes to help him, my only concerns are would fixing a male GSD calm him down specifically at 20 month old, the vet thought he is a bit old and may be too late for the calming down effect, he is scheduled next week, what options do I have anyway other than trying everything I can possibly try.

Today I took him for a walk and he was so excited to go out but as soon as we left the house I see him on full throttle alert status body language wise!! he is been like that for a while but it increased after the boot camp, he then kept look behind us, there was a woman walking a dog, he looked fearful and his attention was all about that dog no matter how much I tried to feel relaxed and enjoy the walk with him, I stepped on the side 30 feet away to let this woman with her dog pass us and then my dog started barking at the other dog. Not sure if this is a fear of something he recently got! or was the food or the other dogs smell on the walker that agitated him yesterday.

Whatever the case, I do need help ASAP, I will try to PM Dave Winners and see if I can, I'm not a new member but I don't post usually.
 
#7 ·
Grabbing a lot of dogs by the collar is asking to get bit Linda, a leash can give a different impression to dogs like that. Try a drag line, a leash with no handle and be prepared to control and manage what he has access to. The crate helps with that too.

Neutering. I've seen it make a difference, and not make a difference in behavior. When you take away the testosterone, you're changing something, so it probably comes down to what the root cause of the dogs behavior is. In your case, I'd do it and see.

There's a trainer in the LA area, Christopher Smith. I think he's on Facebook as Chris the Dog trainer? I'm not on Facebook so I'm not sure, but I think he'd be someone who could help you.
 
#9 ·
Personally i would get a dog trainer willing to work with you in your own home. $3500 could have been hours of lessons, at home, real situations, not just working on obedience.

Is he usually resource guarding his dish/food? Anything else? Beds, treats, toys, couch, etc.? If so that is something entirely different.

I dont know if this helps, but body language is what i tend to use with dogs. Blocking, leaning forward just slightly, usually humans dont notice subtle body language cues, but dogs pick up on them. I guess since i work as a dog groomer and at the very same time i also get to watch sometimes 20 dogs of all breeds and personalities because we also are a doggy day care, i have to learn to communicate with them other than using pinch collars and leashes!

Perhaps he is getting too much for free? And he needs to go to square one, and nothing is free.. He needs to work for everything.

Maybe he has lots of pent up energy.

Maybe he needs a job, and good brain stimulation.

Could be so many things, and more than likely many things. Those are just some initial thoughts!

Luckily he has you and it sounds like your dedicated to him no matter what it is, which is awesome! :) Good luck to you! I hope that you keep us updated.
 
#10 ·
Regarding the bite, both of you made the wrong move. You do not grab a dog in defense mode by the pinch collar. It is asking to be bitten the dogwalker should know better. Afterall he was the trigger.
Wether it was resource guarding or Chase warned him from getting to where you are is something you need to find out.

Imo Chase has become protective of you. Not uncommon specially for the GSD to become protective when someone get sick, going through emotional stress or someone leaves.

It is certainly correctable, find a knowledgeable trainer to train you, to train your dog.

Chase is lucky to have you,
 
#11 ·
I don't know what to do!! today I took him for a walk and he kept looking behind him and was extremely alert and he was like fearful of something. I came back home and went to garage and out of sudden he started running around like a mad dog for no reason, barking and jumping and running in circles and extremely agitated, I quietly back off and left the garage leaving the whole backyard and garage for him as I knew something bad going to happen if I try to do something in which I'm not trained to do it! I then let him there for an hour and I then mixed the calming med with some tuna and put it outside, he ate it and he is in the garage resting now but still very alert like the calming med is doing nothing! its Christmas day no one is open!
I texted 3 trainers including the boot camp trainer to see what I should do, I'm in the verge to call animal control as I don't think I have the energy or the personality to fix him, I wanted to see if anyone there can take him, take care of him, I will pay him, give him full year of his medical insurance, I don't want anyone to hurt him but I don't think I'm qualified to take care of him anymore, I'm so disappointed in myself and feel extremely guilty. I only got a call from the boot camp trainer and the other 2 didn't even care! the trainer told me that my dog bit 4 trainers at the bootcamp when he was there for 3 weeks, I had no idea!!!! he told me he did this first 2 days and then got better and nothing after that.

I think my mistake was I took a while to start training him, I did train him a bit when he was between 9 weeks to 4 month, then after that he was getting spoiled by the ex and me too, I'm paying for these mistakes now and feel very upset and guilty for doing so.
Chase is 5th generation purebred, his actual name Nando von den oher Tannen (we call him Chase)
His dad Leo von der Zentrische = Leo von der Zenteiche

His mom Olivia von Tronje = Olivia von Tronje

His brother Noah von den Oher Tannen = Noah von den Oher Tannen

His sister Nanni von den Oher Tannen = Nanni von den Oher Tannen

These people did amazing job training and taking care of their dogs! I totally messed up and this poor dog is paying the price.
I asked the trainer to find a place for him where someone is able to lead him and take care of him, he told me there is a place for GDS here in CA and he will call me back with info. I don't know what I need to do today or tomorrow just keeping him separated from me, feed him and see if I can find a place for him.

Totally devastated!
 
#13 ·
Lisa Maze is a trainer sorta near your area you can try her. There is a trainer near long beach named Karin Chan that might be able to help too. Meanwhile if I were you I'd chill the **** out. Stop the walks if you feel you are losing control of the dog. Get a crate or contain the dog in another room if you have company over. The dog can't do much damage if you keep it away from trouble. That will buy you time to find a trainer that can help you.
 
#50 ·
Lisa Maze is a trainer sorta near your area you can try her.
Lisa is terrific, but if the OP is in LA, she's not even remotely close. Lisa is here in the Bay Area, which would be nearly 400 miles away.
 
#14 ·
If you really feel like he's too much for you and you can't handle him and can't work with another trainer, then call Coastal or GSROC and explain the situation. They might take him or they might have a good trainer who handles aggression. Most rescues won't take a dog with a bit history but it's not clear he's biting out of aggression or because your methods aren't right for him. I sent you a PM with information on one I have used with my rescues. You sound scared and that won't work. You need to be confident and in charge.

He comes from good lines. Can you contact the breeder you got him from? If you love the dog and want to keep him it's not too late but you don't need a gentle, all positive trainer, you need someone skilled in behavior modification who has a lot of experience with aggression. Those boot camps are not the place for a family dog.
 
#15 ·
Uh Wow!!:eek:
I see I'm late to this party!

I see "Sean O'Shea" has been mentioned because of your location. More details here and yeah with this dog "you" need to lose the "Prong Collar" it can be a two edged sword!

But you can start over while you look for help and seeking competent help is "highly advised!" See I just got a rescue in the GSD link.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7378442-post9.html

No more bites use a muzzle if you need to. And you can find muzzle conditioning clips at solidk9training.
 
#17 ·
Uh Wow!!:eek:
No more bites use a muzzle if you need to. And you can find muzzle conditioning clips at solidk9training.
This is the one thing Chip that seems to be a universal problem. I will never understand when an owner (new or someone that's raised the dog from a pup) is so ready to rush through (denial then acceptance) and then rush the dogs off "stating he BIT ME", sending thest dogs to their deaths - no option - they failed, so the dog dies

But these same people won't bother to muzzle the dog until their heads get straight and they can explore their resources. Remove the potential for a bite - how to these owners seem to seem that washing their hands immediately of the dog "they love so much", sending them to their deaths is a more responsible choice to putting a muzzle on them?

I think these people are acting like a bunch of 10 year olds. It's not working out perfectly - it makes me mad/sad so it just needs to go away......right now.....
 
#18 ·
I would wait a week at least before calling around to see who would take him. Once you have let him go it would be very difficult if not impossible to get him back. You need to make sure you would be at peace with your decision to rehome him and that you can picture your life happily without him.

I agree two bites is bad, two bites that required stitches is worse, but this dog is by no means without hope. It might be that you need to forge a better bond with him built on mutual respect and that you have to manage situations he is put in for the rest of his life but not impossible. Please have a recommended behaviorist come observe you and the dog at home. This is definitely not the type of gsd who can be sent to camp to solve his problems, he obeys the handler he respects. He learned to respond to his handler at camp but from the picture you have painted he does not respect you. You cannot man handle this dog as others have said, he needs to do it for his devotion to you.

My boy Lobo is also a super alpha. Three weeks ago we had a behaviorist come to our home to help us address his aggressive resource guarding (particularly food) in one visit and $100 dollars later we had a new plan to help him. This is a dog who has been in obedience classes since 12 weeks (he is 19 months) so dont feel completely defeated about not having taken chase to classes. There is no doubt in my mind that he was at a point that he would seriously injure someone over food but just three weeks, some advice and one trainer visit later he is a completely different dog around food. Dont get me wrong we are still working daily with him but he is leaps and bounds better. Please get a few other opinions (some behaviorist offer free consultation) before giving up on you boy or you ability as a handler.
 
#22 ·
OP, I just pm'd you the name of one behaviorist and one trainer that have good reputations for working with difficult dogs in Los Angeles. They're known in the breed rescue world there to get results. (I haven't used either one, but I still have rescue contacts there and got names for you.) Hopefully Bailiff and others can also PM you some names of other people who have good reputations.

This problem should not be dumped on a rescue. No rescue has people knocking on their door asking for dogs that bite.
 
#24 ·
Have you contacted the breeder? Have you considered returning him to the breeder? He has a very nice pedigree, and unless you imported him, the breeders ought to be willing to take him back and assess him.

Sometimes the drugs act differently with different dogs. Also, 20 months old, he could be having the beginnings of some form of epilepsy. Not sure. But the running around in the garage is odd, all of the behavior is a little odd, like he could have encephalitis or a tumor in his brain or epilepsy, or something that is causing him to heighten his fear responses, and act aggressively. Medications or something he may be injesting that you do not know about might also cause a response like this.

Call his breeder before animal control, please.
 
#37 ·
His breeder didn't really care! she took two days to reply to my text and when I texted her back asking her to let me call her, she called back saying I'm glad you find a good trainer and she would help to find me a trainer in LA! I don't know why would anyone return a dog to a breeder, wouldn't be this cruel, the breeder will for sure ends up killing the poor dog! I'm going to work with the new trainer i found yesterday and put a muzzle on him when someone visit and keep training him as long as I can.
 
#25 · (Edited)
What OP ends up doing is on them. I will say this though. When you know about dogs, I mean really know about dogs, most of these events that seem like such unpredictable crisis's are really not that big a deal. You know how to prevent them, or fix them, or manage them as they come up and it is what it is. So you can put the dog down, find someone to help you and teach you the right way to live with the dog, or try to pass the problem dog off on someone else, in which case if it ends up going to the wrong place it will probably end up dead anyway.

I would encourage you to learn though. Some day you will want another dog and if you remain ignorant chances are you will at some point encounter this kind of dog again, especially if you keep getting shepherds. Ignorance can cost you more than the life of one dog in your lifetime.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I think I got all my ignorance out of the way in one shot!

I only had 5 stitches in one finger! It seems my little finger was permanently bent (can't fully extend it) but I don't count that!

The value of Crate training uh what's a crate?? The proper way to break up a Dog Fight ...stitches on that one! And proper management (I dare you to try it??? that was me to Rocky) Yes that one is where the stitches came from!

Good times, Good times. :p
 
#33 ·
OK ...it got worst! The dog tracked down and bit her sister! I thought the real crazy was the garage one hour and I will my drug my dog and maybe call AC thing??

And I'm not counting the biting the Dog Walker and "Trainers" thing! And not to mention $3500 dollars down a rat hole!!

Man I have not been here long but this is about as bad as it gets!

OP one simple question can you/will you put a muzzle on this dog?? If you can do that then there maybe hope for you and this dog??
 
#34 ·
OP all these posters mean well and have dealt with difficult dogs in the past. They have helped me a lot with my dog.
I would private message any of them, Baillif sounds like he knows someone that could help you near your location, otherwise has a wealth of knowledge on dog training.

Why not decide now to dedicate your life to this dog? Buy a baskerville muzzle, they are cheap as dirt and work amazing. My dog wears hers when i have guests over, and when im out in the public with her. She lives. You can find it on amazon. Why use a muzzle. its called peace of mind. Also it helps relax you, which sounds like you need! I know i need it sometimes. You know they cant bite anyone when they wear a muzzle. When they wear a basket muzzle, they can eat treats, drink water, pant, even play with sticks on walks, etc.

As for the garage incident, bring it up with another vet. This anxiety medication business is sketchy, i would call a holistic vet near you, i find them to have more passion for the animal itself than just it being another case. Perhaps they will have more insight!

Dont give up on this dog. I insist. You have come this far, you know what he is capable of, and think of how much more he is, if you can figure out if this is a medical issue or a case of behavioral. i would keep a leash on him at all times, he would eat one kibble at a time from my hand. He would earn his attention- even if its just a down, he would get his mind focused on me before a walk, meaning we would do a heel session before we walked. He would be in his crate when i cant keep 100% tab on him. He would get a **** ton of exercise, i would find a game for him to play- nose work is great for any breed dog with drive.

Feel free to private message me if you need support or to vent! I know how it is!

I would find another dog trainer!
 
#35 ·
Great posts on the muzzle suggestion. My pup will still have situations to go through in the future that may involve an experience to which I can't afford to assume how she will react. I think I'm going to get a muzzle and train her to it so it will be there as a tool, if needed. The baskerville muzzle sounds like a good choice. Thanks!:)
 
#36 ·
Update: 12.26
Hi guys, thank you all for taking the time to respond to me, I spent the whole Christmas day on my boy (Chase!), when I gave him the calming med (Acerpromazine) in the morning, an hour and half later he got the madness, he was panting, jumping all over, looking outside the glass door (my garage has a glass door overlooking somehow busy street) and there was no one around, walker or runner or whatever, he was like he heard some noises in his head and looking outside, very scary!, I kept him locked and started looking for GSD rescue places and yes I got to this point where I felt I can't possibly help him, then when I looked up the LA GSD site I found info on a trainer his name Eran (www,manofdogs.com) with a phone #, he volunteer there so I figured what I'm going to lose anyway, its Christmas day and no one going to answer me, I texted that number and 15 min later the trainer called me and 2 hours later he was at my house, he stayed for nearly 2.5 hours working with me and Chase, this trainer is amazing as he was reading my dog body language and most of it he was scared and fearful!, probably the boot camp in Canoga Park abused him and treated him like a slave as since I brought him back he would lower his head looking with fear in his eye when I try to pet him!! at the end Chase was relaxed and happy and we agreed that I hire him for more training classes all at my house or in my neighborhood where Chase can learn how to react to me, people and how to control himself. He suggested that I cover the garage glass door and window so Chase does not spend the day looking at people and cars, barking and getting agitated not at this stage, plus he ditched the prong collar and gave me the chock one? not sure what they call it and asked me to buy him a muzzle which I'm ordering tonight.

Chase is way better today and I'm hiring this trainer for long time until I bring out the best of Chase and of course I will use the muzzle in public as I can't possibly take another chances on him.

Please keep your suggestions and ideas coming.
 
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