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My 3 year old male tried to bite me..please

15K views 130 replies 27 participants last post by  MayzieGSD 
#1 ·
I have a serious surprise/problem. I got a 3 year old male Czech shepherd a few months ago and up until now he's been very good and I never had doubts about him..he was always submissive of me and tolerant of my femal
Puppy. One of the first things I did when I got him was out my hand in his food bowl to make sure he could be trusted and it was totally fine..he's never been aggressive or protective of resources until now..he's been acting wierd the other day I went to put him in his crate and he started to grunt at me..he budged and went in but I was very thrown off on it..so today I wanted to do the food test..I out a glove on a stick and put it in is bowl..he grunted so I grabbed the bowl and hand fed him for a bit then put the bowl down and did the glove thing again..except this time he snapped to bite the glove (which he thought was my hand)..
I am so shocked and confused right now..I didn't know what to do so I took his bowl put him in the crate and just stepped outside to think about it..

I need some serious guidance right now..and just to mention..I don't have the money for a private dog aggression trainer..
 
#2 ·
Teach him to sit for his food and wait for your OK and then leave him alone to eat. This will calm things down. After a few weeks, call his name when he is eating and throw a piece of raw meat in his bowl so he learns that you are not annoying him. Is he OK otherwise?
Read the book "MINE!"
 
#57 ·
Teach him to sit for his food and wait for your OK and then leave him alone to eat. This will calm things down.
This is what we do with Leo: always a sit (and for some reason out of habit, I actually say, "nothing in life is free, pup" because it is the premise for NILIF training/behav. modification-->Nothing in Life is Free) and then a wait. We hand-fed Leo (as as pup) as well and he has no issue with us taking food, toys, or treats away and he takes his treats pretty gently.
 
#3 ·
Your rescue is still getting to know you and messing with his food is not a good idea. In more recent times, it has been discouraged to put your hand in a dog's food bowl (or remove the bowl) unless you are actually putting in more food. You gave him the food, now let him have it without troubles. It's not building trust otherwise and can cause resource guarding (aggression).

It can take GSD rescues more than a few months to settle in. You two are still getting to know each other. "Nothing in Life is Free" is an approach that might be helpful. You can search this forum on that topic and lots of info will come up with suggestions.

Thank you for rescuing this boy. Giving treats to go into his crate is a good idea. It may solve conflict about doing so. He is still learning what you want. Positive reinforcement goes a long way. I have had to find the balance between working with the sensitivity of a GSD and showing calm leadership.

I will say I did have an expert in GSDs assess my guy, and it was helpful to hear what he said. I had a better idea of what I was dealing with as far as temperament.
 
#5 ·
Your rescue is still getting to know you and messing with his food is not a good idea. In more recent times, it has been discouraged to put your hand in a dog's food bowl (or remove the bowl) unless you are actually putting in more food. You gave him the food, now let him have it without troubles. It's not building trust otherwise and can cause resource guarding (aggression).

I
It can take GSD rescues more than a few months to settle in. You two are still getting to know each other. "Nothing in Life is Free" is an approach that might be helpful. You can search this forum on that topic and lots of info will come up with suggestions.

Thank you for rescuing this boy. Giving treats to go into his crate is a good idea. It may solve conflict about doing so. He is still learning what you want. Positive reinforcement goes a long way. I have had to find the balance between working with the sensitivity of a GSD and showing calm leadership.

I will say I did have an expert in GSDs assess my guy, and it was helpful to hear what he said. I had a better idea of what I was dealing with as far as temperament.
Great advice I am glad I kept my cool and put him in his crate because I knew I needed a good minute to clear my head and re evaluate how I will re begin our relationship
 
#4 ·
Thx for your help..yes..he is a very normal dog otherwise but now I see a pattern that when he does or doesn't want to do something he seems to not hesitate to make it known..
Maybe I pushed my limits cuz I dug the glove in there while he grunted for a good 5 seconds before he bit it but still..i draw the line where Im honest with myself that i, afraid of my own dog..he is czech working lines..right now he's in his crate until I figure out where I'm going to start with him again
 
#6 · (Edited)
Maybe I pushed my limits cuz I dug the glove in there while he grunted for a good 5 seconds before he bit it but still..i draw the line where Im honest with myself that i, afraid of my own dog..he is czech working lines..right now he's in his crate until I figure out where I'm going to start with him again
OMG, calm down and don't expect so much from him in the next month (4 weeks) What do you mean "dug the glove in there"? You sound aggressive and abusive towards him so no wonder he responds accordingly. That's is not how you build a bond. It can also very well be fear aggression, which is a whole other issue, that is why you DO NEED a trainer to evaluate the situation.So yes, you pushed both your limits. If you don't change this he will pay for it and you possibly as well. If you cannot afford training, maybe return him so you will have more peace in your life? Sorry if it sounds harsh but these stories worry me and can escalate quickly.
 
#7 ·
Sorry you are going through this. These are pretty smart dogs and when I read your post I wondered - did he really think this was your hand that he was biting? A glove on a stick does not smell or move like a human hand. More like a toy. Take a step back in your training of him. Maybe even eliminate the bowl for a bit and hand feed him. When you go back to the bowl put a bit of food in, add more by hand, add better foods by hand, throw in some meat if he is eating kibble - all good things come from your hands. Make sure he has good mealtime manners, no rushing or jumping at food or bowls. Have him sit and wait but not too long. Don't grab bowls away from him as this will increase the guarding instinct. With respect to the crate, the grunting is a bit strange. Make sure you put something nice in the crate for him before he gets in so that there is a positive association. And make sure he goes in willingly and not by force. Try not to feel scared around the dog and think the best of him - he will pick up on your fear and react accordingly. If you have already had him for a few months you know him well.
 
#8 ·
GSDs are very intelligent and require a lot of training. That training is best done with guidance from people used to training defensive breeds. I have gotten the best help by joining a Schutzhund club. In my case, it has actually been cheaper than taking classes.

I did not give up. It sounds at this point (just guessing) that you've gotten more dog than you bargained for--which is what happened in my case. That can be remedied by getting with people who know the breed. I have an awesome dog--very stable environmentally, clear headed, and he has a mind of his own. I had to get more skills as a handler. It has made all the difference.
 
#12 ·
Leave the dog alone and let him eat in peace or this can escalate.

I teach my dogs to drop it and of course they all are taught ironclad recalls. Those two commands should take care of any feeding problems that may arise.

I have never had a reason to stick my hand in my dogs' food bowl when they are eating.
 
#13 ·
That's a good point..though this isn't something I ever do other then when I first got him. I know to leave a dog while he eats and even though I'll always keep an eye on him given that he's only 3 there may be a time in the future where I don't catch it and my toddler sticks his hand in his bowl. Like I said it isn't something I do. mess with him when he eats, but I just was curious as to what to do about this sort of thing. With all due respect. Not messing with him while he eats is very true but if I were to ever need to take his bowl OR have a kid touch his bowl I want to rest knowing that he doesn't see it as a threat to his food. And the only reason I tried the bowl thing was because he was showing protection over his food..something he's never done
 
#14 ·
If you can't afford training will the rescue be willing to give you advice? Do you know their policy on that? Many GSD rescues are glad to do so as they would rather see you have a successful relationship with your dog then return it. Moriah also had a good idea, the one about joining a Schutzhund club. Or it could be just a German Shepherd Club. Working together in training in a club will help you both to start bonding, and being a working dog he is going to need a lot of exercise. His overall temperament will also be better with exercise and training. It's very important with the working lines. They need the mental stimulation, they need to learn new things. Either way you will get support. Some of them have reasonable yearly fees.

Annabirdie had some good feeding suggestions for you too. GSDs have an uncanny sense of what is fair and he probably was put off by your putting down food for him and then messing with it. There is really no reason to mess with it. There are different trains of thoughts on this and how to handle the kind of reaction he had but bottom line is, it is really not necessary and its past now. After you get his trust and he senses you have a god reason for doing certain things, then you should be able to move the bowl if you have to. Also be very consistent and fair with him. And don't be afraid of him. That is no way to have a relationship with the dog.

You did a wonderful thing by taking a rescue. Your new guy needs time to adjust and bond and learn to trust you. It doesn't happen overnight though. Out of curiosity, who evaluated him as czech working line? If he is, that does not mean he will necessarily be a dog you can't trust but he will be a dog that will be better off if he gets the exercise and mental stimulation he needs. Mine is also a WL GSD and I like to joke that a 3 hour hike for him is just warm up for training but it's really not a joke and we really do take 3 hours hikes. Do you know anything about his background and previous training? Can you post a pic for us to see? :gsdbeggin:
 
#16 · (Edited)
I never ever mess with my dog when he's eating, you can actually create food aggression this way. I taught him a solid leave it and drop it and we also do 'nothing in life is free' which means that he has to work for everything he wants.... Some examples, going out to potty he has to sit first, getting in the car, a sit and then waiting until I tell him to load up, food same thing sit and wait until I release him. One of my dogs is a resource guarder and he always eats in his crate and once he has his food I leave him alone. Nothing in life is free(NILIF) is especially good for a new adult dog coming into a home, it helps teach impulse control and provides some structure... for me I probably wouldn't be letting him free roam in the house right now either, he'd be tethered to me or crated when that wasn't possible. If it escalates I'd definitely seek out a behaviorist experienced with the breed.

Also didn't see the part about the toddler till now... I would absolutely not allow to this dog to eat outside of a crate and then let a toddler stick his hand in the bowl, that is asking for trouble. I would always feed him in the crate.
 
#18 · (Edited)
You just got the dog.

The goal is to build a bond.

Putting on the glove and sticking it in his food after you gave it to him, and he is in his crate that is supposed to be his safe place ... This causes him to not trust you, and is very far from bond building.

What you should be doing is adding things to his bowl, wonderful things such as a tiny piece of chicken maybe. That is the logical way to make your dog appreciate having hands around his food. Walk by, say something in a calm voice such as "want more?" toss something yummy in the bowl and keep walking.
Do not stare as he eats, do not mess with his bowl, make him feel safe and trust that when he's given food, it is his.

If you are not going to add anything, keep your hands away from his bowl. How would you like it if you sat down to dinner and a family member thrust his or her hand into your food?
 
#19 ·
My feeling is this, my dogs don't mess with my food, I should show them the same respect by not messing with them during there food time..If you want to develop more of a bond with him, feed him his meals by hand one piece at a time..

The other option is to do, as one other poster suggests, feed him all his meals in his crate and leave him alone.
 
#21 ·
I am not an expert by any means but I think you have been given good advice here. I believe the whole "take the food away and see how the dog reacts" scenario used to be the thing to do but has since gone out of favor. I never liked it and never did it unless there was some legitimate reason for doing so, like forgetting to add something in the bowl that I was supposed to add. My rationale was that if someone set my dinner on the table and then jerked it away from me after a bite or two, I would get pretty cranky as well.

I was going to make the same point as annabirdie, but she beat me to it. I am not sure that your dog thought of the stick and glove in connection to your hand at all. To him, it may have seemed like an invitation to play tug or another game.

Your boy is beautiful, by the way!
 
#22 ·
I have a serious surprise/problem. I got a 3 year old male Czech shepherd a few months ago and up until now he's been very good and I never had doubts about him..he was always submissive of me and tolerant of my femal
Puppy. One of the first things I did when I got him was out my hand in his food bowl to make sure he could be trusted and it was totally fine..he's never been aggressive or protective of resources until now..he's been acting wierd the other day I went to put him in his crate and he started to grunt at me..he budged and went in but I was very thrown off on it..so today I wanted to do the food test..I out a glove on a stick and put it in is bowl..he grunted so I grabbed the bowl and hand fed him for a bit then put the bowl down and did the glove thing again..except this time he snapped to bite the glove (which he thought was my hand)..
I am so shocked and confused right now..I didn't know what to do so I took his bowl put him in the crate and just stepped outside to think about it..

I need some serious guidance right now..and just to mention..I don't have the money for a private dog aggression trainer..
Will you please stop doing this?! If I walked by your plate and stuck my hand in it, would you not be angry? You are creating the problem by doing this. I KNOW! I KNOW! It's what you see people doing to test dogs. It's what Cesar does. But it's all BS.

Stop thinking in lines of Submission and Dominance. the guy that developed that theory has long since said he was wrong. And dogs are not wolves. We've bred dogs to have a different social construct for thousands of years

First, you have a Czech line. They can be a bit more serious than other lines. These dogs were bred for border patrol. Build the trust with him and don't try to bully him.

I want my dog to trust me. I want him to know that when I approach, good things will happen. When I put his food down in front if him, it's HIS. Not mine. HIS. So stop messing with his food.

As you walk by, start dropping HIGH value food. Pieces of meat, cheese, etc. Anything that is like crack to him. You need to have this trust because there will be a day that you have to stick your hand in his mouth to retrieve something he shouldn't have! Make him see you as the Pez Dispenser as you approach his food. If you want to add control, then you do it BEFORE you give him his dish. Have him sit or down until you release him to go eat.

Crate - Order Crate Games. It's only about $30. That will teach you how to put the value on the crate so he wants to go there. Quite often I give a treat of some kind when I'm putting them in a crate. If I have to put them in quickly for an emergency, I don't want to fight with them to do so. I want them to view it as this great place where great things happen.
 
#44 ·
Christ. I realized I came here looking for advice but had I known I'd get yours I would have thought twice. You always have the same arrogant approach when people come asking for help and are unfortunately a downside to such a helpful site for new posters like me. Please do not respond to any of my posts, respectfully.
Really? This post is disrespectful and arrogant? Outrageous. :wild:
 
#23 ·
The toddler concerns me. I'm wondering what will happen if that toddler drops a piece of food and reaches down to pick it up at the same the dog is doing the same.

I would not have brought a 3 years old GSD with unknown background into a house with a toddler in it and there are no training resources in the plan.....
 
#24 ·
ok so reading over the rest of the thread. Wolfy Dog isn't far off in her recommendation

1. You are scared of your dog. Dogs feed off your confidence, or lack of.
2. You have a dog showing resource guarding, partially created by your actions, and you have a toddler.
3. You have no resources for training.
4. You are practicing methods you learned from wherever that are causing issues. He gave you plenty of warning that you ignored before he snapped at you.

My advice is call the breeder/rescue and discuss rehoming. IMO, this is not the dog for your household at this time. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a GSD, just not this one. This is all a recipe for disaster.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I don't have a toddler right now lol I said in the future. And I'm not scared of my dog I was saying that's where I'd draw the line. Re homing is not going to happen. I got the dog and he is now my responsibility..I'm already his 3rd home so I don't think giving up on him is going to do him any favors not to mention I don't trust anyone with my dogs and once he would be rehomed he may be out of my hands and control of what happens to him. What if he were to go somewhere that has a similar situation but that owner doesn't bother to ask questions from experts before thinking the dog is hopelessly aggressive and then put down???? Or maybe he ends up in a shelter one day by accident and they do the food bowl test (which they do) and he bites and gets euthanization?
Thanks for your input but to recommend rehoming because I am having a situation I've never been in, and may not have handled it ideally is completely outrageous of you. That's why I'm asking! So I can work with him.
 
#25 ·
Being afraid of your dog is a major impediment (looking at scar on my hand from a totally accidental bite) -- I think many of us have suffered a few bites over time...and you have to get past that fear.

I would seriously look at a nothing in life is free approach (JMO) and think this is a good article targeted at police k9 handlers - scroll down to dealing with dominance aggression.
Now he does use the dominance terminology but I believe there is some sound advice in there and some of it relates to food aggression.

Training Articles | Tarheel Canine


From reading your post, I was not sure if you actually HAD a toddler or this was a hypothetical some time in the future toddler?
 
#26 ·
Regardless of how this is remedied people need to keep in mind that the test the OP did is very common in shelters here(so I guess elsewhere too). If the dog fails, it's destroyed. It can be the nicest dog in the world but it won't matter. This means the dog doesn't stand a chance to get on the floor or into rescue because it's considered aggressive and there are tons of dogs that don't do it. Nobody knows if their own dogs will ever end up in this predicament. If can be due to multiple circumstances. The dog may simply be picked up by animal control and after the hold this test will determine if the dog will make it out of the shelter. It is something that needs to be addressed, no matter how it's done.
 
#30 ·
Sorry, I thought there was a toddler in the house. My pup growled at me once when she had a bone. Totally took me by surprise. That was about 6 months ago. She's not quite 1 1/2 years old.

Wasn't sure how to handle like you. I found something that works for me. It comes with time, trust and training. I now make her "leave the bone" that is I stake my claim to it. I let her know I'm coming and tell her "back" and "Mine". She doesn't like it but she has to be back at least 6 feet and has given up "control" of the bone. I can then pick it up.

IMO - this works because she is away from it, outside of her "zone of protection" so to speak. I would never try this with a dog I did not have a strong bond with. Strong bond is step one.

Anyway, if I need to take her food bowl after I've given it to her because I forgot to put topping on it or something - I just tell her "off" or "back" or "leave it" (she knows all 3) and she has to leave the area - then I pick it up:)
 
#36 ·
No worries sorry for the confusion. I said in "in the future" as a way to mean later on in life. Fortunately I am the only human in the household so that's to my advantage :) I really like the dropping pieces of good food by his bowl while he eats I will give that a try
 
#31 ·
Please read this recent thread about resource guarding: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/591954-resource-guarding.html

I know the advice here sometimes seems harsh, but people really are trying to help you. You did make it sound as if you were afraid of your dog and that you had a toddler. I see you explained in a later post what you meant by that, but that's why people were responding the way they were. Since you don't have kids yet, you have time to work on building trust so your dog no longer feels the need to guard things he values.
 
#32 · (Edited)
If he growled for a good 5 seconds, he was telling you he doesn't like what you are doing, and to cut it out.

You kept doing what he "said" not to, so he resorted to the next method of communication: biting. Worked, didn't it?

Do yourself a favor and buy some books on dog behavior and body language.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0502-books-about-dog-psychology-behavior.html
Canines sometimes do the opposite of what we do. Hugs for humans are a demonstration of affection. Dogs do it to dominate. Looking in the eyes, for us, means affection, trust and sometimes love. To dogs, it is a fighting challenge.

Read those books carefully so you understand what your dog is telling you, and so that you can communicate to him what you want from him.

The number one problem with GSD owners who get into trouble is that they humanize the dog and fail to understand and respect what he is.
 
#33 ·
Forgot to add. The glove thing set you back. It was a negative move, not neutral or positive. What the dog knows now is that the bite worked. They may do this in shelters as a test but as other's have mentioned - their plan B is to put the dog down if it fails the test. It was never meant to be a tool to do anything else. Now, you have a dog that may have learned a negative lesson.

You need to have a plan B if this idea did stick in his head. There will be many times down the road that you need to be firm and assertive. You may want to view some methods and warnings on youtube etc made by professional trainers on the topic of aggression to prevent yourself from making another mistake that would surely let the dog know he's in charge.....
 
#34 ·
You mentioned trust. You're ruining his trust in you by poking at him with a stick. He knows that isnt your hand and every dog is going to defend himself at some point. Quit trying to push it to that point and concentrate on being fair with him so he won't feel like he needs to defend himself. As far as the what if's with kids, in over 20 years with dogs and kids We've never needed our kids to pick up a food bowl or put their hands anywhere need the dogs when their eating. Its real simple to keep them separated.
 
#38 ·
Keep in mind too, there could be a reason he's in his 3rd home in three years. People don't always want to admit their dog is less then perfect. Management, eliminating opportunities for trouble and calmly teaching him what you expect is important. Calm and slow, a predictable routine and structure will help with him trusting you.
 
#39 ·
Yeah we definitely still have some bonding to do because it's only been 3 months that I've had him. At least it was an eye opener that I need to switch up my system with him. My other Gsd I've had since she was 8 weeks so this is my first experience with a rescue
 
#40 ·
Agree with all the posters saying not to mess with him when eating. You can have him do some obedience before you give him his meal (sit, down, wait etc) then give him his food and let him have it. I would feed in a crate too. NILIF wouldn't hurt, and if you can do any training with him that helps build a bond and trust. Good luck, he's a handsome boy.
 
#41 ·
Its BS to mess with a dog's food like you are doing. Sorry. You are going to create problems if you don't cut that crap out.

But the dog is not an idiot. He knows a rubber hand on a stick is a rubber hand on a stick. Give him some credit! Otherwise you would not have been able to pick up his bowl and hand feed him.

What you are doing is PLAYING with his food after you give it to him. Don't do that. The stick with the hand is like a toy, and your dog is not wanting the toy in his food dish when he is eating. It is acting like you are teasing him by trying to mess with his food. It is practically the worse thing you can do to create problems.

Yes, they DO do this as a test in shelters. Shelters where dogs who have been starved or fending for themselves, they do this 1 time, to see if the dog is food aggressive. People who do not know the dog, dogs in a wacked out weird situation as part of a test.

Brining out this and doing it over and over again is just plain wrong.
 
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