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My 3 year old male tried to bite me..please

15K views 130 replies 27 participants last post by  MayzieGSD 
#1 ·
I have a serious surprise/problem. I got a 3 year old male Czech shepherd a few months ago and up until now he's been very good and I never had doubts about him..he was always submissive of me and tolerant of my femal
Puppy. One of the first things I did when I got him was out my hand in his food bowl to make sure he could be trusted and it was totally fine..he's never been aggressive or protective of resources until now..he's been acting wierd the other day I went to put him in his crate and he started to grunt at me..he budged and went in but I was very thrown off on it..so today I wanted to do the food test..I out a glove on a stick and put it in is bowl..he grunted so I grabbed the bowl and hand fed him for a bit then put the bowl down and did the glove thing again..except this time he snapped to bite the glove (which he thought was my hand)..
I am so shocked and confused right now..I didn't know what to do so I took his bowl put him in the crate and just stepped outside to think about it..

I need some serious guidance right now..and just to mention..I don't have the money for a private dog aggression trainer..
 
#43 ·
:wild:

Glad to hear that.

Remember, your job is to make him think you are the best thing ever, and that all wonderful things come from you.

These dogs can be the most wonderful and loyal dogs that ever existed, you just have to earn their trust.

Do get those books and read them.
 
#46 ·
I respect your decision to keep your boy. And he is a handsome GSD. :) I would keep a long line on him in the house. If you want him off furniture or for him to go with you (and you think it is "iffy" on his part, you can turn your back (no eye contact), pick up the end of a 10 foot line, and have him do what you want w/o issue. I have done this with a rescue. I also threw food in the crate first, shut the door after he went in, and then gave more food.

Really, though, from my experience, you need guidance from GSD people. On your own, you may find out the hard way why this GSD, has been re-homed more than once. I admire your determination, as it will be needed to persevere.

This dog may be your opportunity to really develop better handler skills, but you have to learn them from others watching you with your dog.
 
#48 ·
OK ,,,,you don't at the moment have kids involved so it should not by and large be that big a deal, in my view.

You've already been told that the fake hand thing is not that great idea! I go so far as to say that most of what the "animal shelter" folks do is crap! I've seen there dogs at Rescue Day events!

ASPCA and SPCA procedures don't cut much ice for me!

Start over! And please "lose" the fake hand thing! A much better option in the first link here. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html
A follow up on the "I just got a rescue is here:

Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - stubborn, need help.

That post and click on the thread link at the top for Q&A.


The "walk thing" may or may not be a problem?? In any case see here:
Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

All of that works none of it is hard!

Keep a drag leash on the dog while indoors a short leash with no handle for indoor use, it's not prone to getting caught up on furniture, so if you need to control the dog you don't need to be laying hands on him!

And another valuable resource can be found here:
Free Advice – Solid K9 Training

Jeff say's "everything" people need to know to train there dog for free is available on his site ... look under the heading "Free Advise!" :)

He also has a weekly call in radio show and a FB page! And as it happens "I" found a trainer in Canada for someone on BoxerForum who had a Cat Dog issue and had spent a year looking for a trainer! Jeff also says he can help people find a "trainer local to them!" So I tested it out on FB and even though he is busy in Hawaii working with "Pig Dog" I got an answer! And I passed it along. :)

Pig Dog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7qf-W8udaI

Eyes on for a dog with "issues" is always going to be easier. But if you take a deep breath and relax, ditch the crap with the food stuff and start over, I believe you can do this!

Keep us posted! :)
 
#52 ·
DMS, a good trainer may not be as expensive as you think. The trainer I took Newlie to let people pay by session or buy sessions in blocks, for which they got a break in price. I didn't have a lot of disposable income at the time and I was able to afford it. So, if you are thinking, "Oh my God, I can't afford thousands of dollars," you may be mistaken. You might do some online research and/or calling around if you are interested, both for price and to find out if they have much experience with shepherds. If nothing more, a good evaluation might be helpful in managing Wolf.

Another option may be small classes. You can work with Wolf and build your bond at the same time.

Finally, I would say that most, if not all of us on this board have had to get help with a dog at some time or another, so there is no shame in it. Newlie was my first shepherd and quite frankly, I didn't know very much and made a lot of mistakes. The first trainer I got did not work out very well and I did not stay with him, but the second was great! Newlie loves me and has forgiven all my mistakes and I imagine your dog will, too.
 
#59 ·
Is it a correct observation that there is a tendency on the forum that when an OP asks for help in aggression issues that the OP him/herself gets more and more defensive as the thread continues to the level of the previous post, even though the help that is offered by members is sincere?
 
#60 ·
Well... Some of us are older and more blunt and direct.

We grew up in a world where if you messed up, you were told you messed up, and we were able and willing to take the criticism, even if it smarted.

Nowadays, it is difficult to tell anyone they are wrong, even when they are the ones asking for help and advice. No one wants to admit they are wrong, anymore. Or they want to be told they are wrong in sugarcoated phrases, protecting their fragile feelings.

I could go on and on, but this is a sore subject for me, and I would probably end up offending people. :crazy:
 
#68 ·
I think that part of the problem too, is the state of mind that a new poster has to be in when they've just encountered a major problem - one they don't know how to resolve and it's shaken them up enough that they are reaching out to strangers for help.

When you see comments from the newbies such as "Need help asap" or I don't believe what happened" or "Tried to bite..... you can be fairly certain these people are "arriving" here already upset and emotionally hurting. With that in mind, why not cut a little slack?

I've noticed the way the trainers post here - they give the information - take it or leave it. Further explanation is provided if asked but they never seem to need to point out a list of wrongs before just giving the advise and moving on.....
 
#70 · (Edited)
I've noticed the way the trainers post here - they give the information - take it or leave it. Further explanation is provided if asked but they never seem to need to point out a list of wrongs before just giving the advise and moving on.....
You have a point.

But when I learn how to do something, finding out what not to do is as important to me as what to do.

People are shocked by what happened because they don't understand where they messed up. Not knowing would only mean they do the same thing again.

Why is it so horrible to tell someone they are wrong? I honestly don't get it.
 
#69 ·
I haven't read the full thread but:

The ASPCA S.A.F.E.R. temp test popularized the (bad) idea of sticking a rubber hand on a stick in a bowl of food while a dog was eating. If the dog growled or bit the stick, they claimed it could be a predictor for what a dog would do if a kid disturbed the dog eating.

Recently, even the ASPCA has been rethinking this element of the SAFER test.

In 2012, they admitted that the way the rubber hand was being used in the field could be creating food aggression. They offered guidance on stopping that misuse of the hand:
Tip of the Week: How Not To Teach Dogs To Guard Their Food Bowl | ASPCA Professional

I wish they'd just eliminate that element of S.A.F.E.R. all together. It's one of many problems with S.A.F.E.R.
 
#77 · (Edited)
Thought I'd give a quick update on wolf since last night. We have been making a transition on the right direction after yesterday unfortunate situation. I have fed him twice already by putting his kibble in his bowl and as he eats placing pieces of chicken inside the bowl and he was loving it! After tonight's 5 mile
Run of course Glad I got that advice..not sure who allentioned that specifically otherwise I'd give you that credit! View attachment 326106
 
#80 ·
You know, this board used to be very active in rescue. The vast majority of my posts are from posting dogs that were going to die in a shelter, bumping them up to get attention. Yeah, I racked them up quickly. It's very sad that the rescue section died. I guess if you have an issue with the number of my posts, well...You'll just have to have an issue with it.

So I found the only thread I responded to you on
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-puppy-living-apartment-help.html#post6965210
If this thread is your issue with me then I would say you are way out of line in your current attitude.

I guess people can judge for themselves whether I was mean to you. ;)
 
#103 ·
Hmm ... I see I did get side tracked! I forgot this:

"The Place Command" and "Sit on the Dog" both very important they" train calmness into a dog you train an off switch." That's a quote from "Bailiff" a pro on here!

Those look like this first Sit on the Dog:
Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
Energy - it's all about confid-tude

And "The Place Command":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=594066

And we had follow up questions on BoxerForum so see the first post and lick on the thread at the top to see the Q&A:

Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - Are people Afraid of you when you walk your Boxer??

OK now "we" can go back to whatever?? :)
 
#108 ·
There is my direct approach.

And then there is my direct approach after reading the Cleveland news and being thoroughly disgusted with humanity.

Sometimes we patiently try to explain why people oughtn't do a thing, and what would be a better approach. And, then sometimes we forget that the 17 people we have done this before with are not the current original poster.

Occasionally, there is something in the original post that hits a nerve. For example, the thread about the pit bull next door. The OP was like, there is this pit bull next door, and well I know it is a bad one for these reasons, and I don't even have my pup yet, but what should I do? Should I carry pepper spray or a knife or a gun. And you get the impression (whether it is true or not) that this dude is just itching to off a dog. That impression could be, no will be influenced by recent events, so sometimes it isn't fair to come in with both barrels.

But the bottom line is, we are all human. Sometimes we have good days and our posts are going to reflect that. And sometimes we have less good days, and sometimes that gets leaked into our posts too.

We do not need to call people foul names or use foul language (break board rules) to come across in a way that is more than likely going to raise hackles. I think more often than not, it really isn't so much intentional as it is a fading of patience/irritation with the situations including the one in the thread in question.
 
#109 ·
Another good point, but I did not view that OP's thread as being about offing a dog but protecting his dog, after all, this is a GSD lover's forum.

I think sometimes OPs are not very clear on the problem and some people frequently start throwing things out there when they should be asking questions first. This is not directed at any particular person.
 
#110 ·
Another good point, but I did not view that OP's thread as being about offing a dog but protecting his dog, after all, this is a GSD lover's forum.

I think sometimes OPs are not very clear on the problem and some people frequently start throwing things out there when they should be asking questions first. This is not directed at any particular person.
But then, you have a personal bias against pit bulls -- of course that is going to influence your perceptions. Now, don't get your hackles up on that, we ALL do it. We all allow things that make us individuals, our temperament, our experiences, our relationships, our strengths, our weaknesses to influence our perceptions. It is part of the human condition.

I hear someone talking about carrying a gun with reference to a dog, and I think, the guy wants to off a dog. That perception is influenced by my father who always told me that people oughtn't talk about their guns, for a number of reasons -- people come over to steal them, etc. And it is influenced by the story of the 21 year old dog mistaken for a coyote run over twice before being shot. And so many more.

Me, I figure I am slightly less likely to be shot by accident when some pseudo-cowboy is trying to off a dog, than I am to being bitten by a pit bull. Both are just not registering as anything I need to act on on my risk analysis survey. So neither scenario is probably infecting my perception.

That being said, I am a strong supporter of the right to bear arms and of allowing people to obtain conceal carry permits -- no problem at all with that.

Higher on my list of risks is someone being frightened of my dog because of its breed and shooting first, even if the dog is under control, leashed, etc. And this COULD infect my perceptions of what I read. But this is still pretty low down on my list.
 
#111 ·
For sure, Selzer, we all have our bad days and we all have our hot buttons. I can have patience with an obviously well-intentioned person who makes a mistake, but I lose my cool with outright abuse or malignant neglect. When I see that, I don't care who says what or how nasty it is, have at 'em and I will be right behind you. (within board rules, of course, lol)
 
#113 ·
Sometimes my frustration is with vets or the Cesar methodologies or in this case the ridiculous animal control testing that a lot of dogs will not pass. I mean, tie a dog to a door knob, and then have a person totally strange to it come up and yell at it??? Really??? What is your GSD going to do?

And that frustration comes out on the OP, and it really shouldn't.
 
#114 ·
These are the top four rules at my home for all us humans. Visitors alsoé

#1 Never touch the dog while he is in his cage. It's his safe place to go if he wants peace and quiet or feeling unwell.

#2 Never put the food down before the dog is seated. If he is sitting too close to the bowl make him back up. Give him a release command to eat. Kids are not allowed to bug him while he is eating. If we say ''Leave it'' he will. We don't just put our hands in it.

#3 If the dog is sleeping. Don't go to him. Call him to you.

# Never take a toy from the dog. Give him the command to drop it and sit before trowing it back or taking it.

These rules are Human Safety rules in our home. We train our dog but he will always be a dog.

I am not here to judge you at all. Just saying we have these rules at home because we know a six year old who got bitten in the face when she went to pet her sleeping 10 month old puppy. The dog was in his crate.
The vet said the dog had an ear infection.

This doesn't totally excuse the dog at all, but let's be a little more fair to dogs and give them commands or make them come to us. Not by invading their space.

A dog acting like this out of nowhere is most probably not feeling well.
 
#116 ·
Your rules are pretty interesting. I don't follow them. But if they work for you, that's great, and they may work for others too.

My rules are:
1. Protect yourself at all times -- not from deliberate vicious behavior, but from ordinary clumsy cement rock GSD head in your eyeball behavior.

2. If there is any question, not with the kids -- no kids live with me, so when I have kids over, if I question at all about anything, kids come first.

3. Kids that don't demonstrate obedience to simple commands, do not interact with my dogs -- no kids live with me, but those that come and visit, even overnight, must listen to my instructions and follow them, or I won't let them in with the dogs or the dogs in with them.

4. Dogs have to accept anything I do -- I can put food down or pick it up; I can open their mouths and take a toy or a treat or a bug or anything else out of the mouth; I can clean a wound, clip hair around a wound, apply meds no matter how painful that is; give shots if necessary; take temperature rectally, examine, clean, and medicate ears; bathe and groom. clip toenails, and sometimes de-mat hair; I can whelp a litter, clean off and weigh puppies and put rick rack on the puppies as soon as they are born and thereafter, clip their toenails, try to get them going, take them away if necessary, put my hands up in places no hands are supposed to go to help a puppy be born -- my dogs allow this.

My dogs are allowed on my couches and on the easy chair, and on my bed, but if I say OFF, they must get off.

My dogs do not have to sit or lie down before I feed them. But if they butt my hand out of the way to get to their food, I may put the food down while they are not in the kennel area, and then open the gate.

I allow them to jump on me, and they do. I don't like this when it is raining and yucky out, but I haven't figured out a way to teach them to gage the status of their coat and claws before jumping on me. My Bad.

I love my dogs. Sometimes I really wonder how I got so lucky to have such nice critters. But it really isn't all luck. It is experience, and reasonable, age-appropriate expectations, and good management, and some confidence, and some bonding/training that makes it work for me.
 
#119 ·
Know what you mean Newlie. When I was 19 I moved from the beach area in San Diego to Boston for a couple of years. Had the same type of experiences that you did. I was appalled at the behavior. I saw a man get mugged (stabbed) on a busy street in the middle of the day and no body stopped to help him - they just walked around him. Quite the culture shock.

I also lived for a few years in South Texas. Very sweet people, but some would be so nice and a different story when you turned your back. I made the mistake of becoming friends with 2 people that were on opposing sides in a generations old clan battle.:eek:

I traveled with my X for a month on a big rig truck through the US. I was so relieved to get back home. We were in Montana when I noticed the weight coming off my shoulders. The waitresses actually said Hi! and were friendly. You could ask for directions and get a way helpful response. It was wonderful:):)
 
#129 ·
Dogs snapping at something trying to get their food is natural.

Why would you put your hand in his bowl whilst he's eating? What purpose does that serve? To see if he'd react exactly as he did?

Dogs with food (especially raw meat) should not be disturbed whilst eating.

Let him eat in peace.
 
#130 ·
What is with this strange obsession people have with touching their dogs food while he is eating?
You get a 3 year old WL dog and you decide to "test" the relationship by putting your hand in the bowl..lol. Then you cant believe when the inevitable happens?

I have a few older imports come through here every so often. Guess what I dont do? Mess with their food!

I will make a dog work for his food, I will put a bowl on the ground and make him do some positions before I grant him access to it but once I give him access to the bowl its his. I dont touch him, I dont touch the food I give him the respect and space he deserves and leave him be.

When my current dog came off the plane he would growl when he ate. I ignored the behavior because it didnt escelate. After he got more comfortable and built some trust he calmed right down.

These are still working dogs, if they have decent blood lines they are bred to be harder, stronger, faster, more intense then your garden variety Lab. They are bred to be able to combat a man.
If your going to buy a dog thats already mature you had better be ready to pick your battles and give the dog some respect and time or you will get hurt.
 
#131 ·
I agree with this. My 3 year old rescue wanted to resource guard his bones and toys when I first got him. It takes time to build trust and develop a bond. Now I can reach in his mouth and take something without a battle. Because he knows I am not competing with him for his toys. I am the provider of toys!
 
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