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Dog mauling caught on video

55K views 613 replies 49 participants last post by  lhczth 
#1 · (Edited)
#79 ·
Pit bulls and staffordshire terriers are NOT the same breed. They get lumped in with them all the time and it drives me nuts (speaking about ban laws here, not people on the forum ;) ). They are a cousin to the Pit, but a distant cousin. They are so much different than pits. I had the honor of rescuing one after being hit by a car, and oh man, he was the sweetest little boy ever. So easily trained, so loving, and it broke my heart when he was finally rehomed after successful surgeries, healing, and training. I wish I would have kept him. A beautiful chocolate brown with the most gorgeous eyes.

I digress. Bans, if utilized properly, and actually upheld, would be wonderful to slow down the BYB's doing it for money, but I don't think they would actually prevent any attacks or bites. Honestly, I'm more afraid of little yappers that nip at your heels and go for finger and toes. They aren't trained because "oh, they are just little fuzz balls." They pose major threats to children, they are notorious for child aggression, yet no one is calling for bans on them because they don't do as much damage. Regardless of what bans are put in place, for any breed, it's a matter of those bans being upheld, and that isn't the case. People still breed them illegally, purchase them illegally, handle them illegally, and surrender them when they don't turn out to be the dog they thought they would be.

Too many people put too little time and effort into their animals, and expect high results with little training. I know people who think GSD's should be easy to train because they are smart. Yep, smart enough to tear your house to bits. Smart enough to dig a hole under your fence and bolt. Smart enough to bite, nip, lunge, and act out. When they aren't properly trained and not given enough stimulation and exercise. But people think they show magically self train themselves. I think I've gotten off track again. I should stop for awhile I'm thinking. A bad night of sleep has left my brain foggy ;)
 
#82 ·
Pit bulls and staffordshire terriers are NOT the same breed. They get lumped in with them all the time and it drives me nuts (speaking about ban laws here, not people on the forum ;) ). They are a cousin to the Pit, but a distant cousin. They are so much different than pits.
I wondered about that too. So a couple of hours ago, I took the time to read the history of the breed. They are one in the same. The confusion comes because they are in an unusual situation. There is a European Dog Registry that goes way, way back. The dogs originally used to create the APB and Staffie are the same mix and bloodlines. The APB registry here in the US says Staffies are PB's and they are with their registry. In addition - The AKC allows Staffies in their registry if the Sire and Dam are registered with them - but not APB's. The bottom line is that they are PB's - the bloodlines go so far back there is no speculation.

I still wasn't satisfied because the AST I had in the 70's looked so much different (by my memory) so, I went back to the 70's and looked at images of the PB's and the AST's. Indeed, the body type you see today has been very well established for many decades and is not something new. There may be many out of standard as to size - but otherwise little has changed.
 
#80 · (Edited)
My mom and dad had a shady neighbor who owned a pit bull. These people were a off and seemed to have had shady business dealings. The dog was always behind a fence and seemed friendly but again those people were off. We always visited my parents with our little kids. I did read, when I tried to prepare myself if anything happened if can't be avoided, that also to grab the dog by the rear legs like a wheelbarrow but to swing the dog in a circle continuously but you can not let them go until police arrive to contain the dog. I'm sure it looked easier on the video ,which was a real life attack caught on tape I believe it was the wife's husband the dog attacked the minute he left the dog go he thought it calmed down and let the dog go who just attacked him again. Hosing the dog or pouring a bottle of bleach blinding the dog and then whacking I'm the head-sorry sounds horrible. We never had any issues with my moms neighbors pit bull.This a two dogs attack though you would need to have an organized plan and a few people to stop this quickly. The fireman with the hose slowed the dog down and more then 12 cops standing their more then prepared made this handler get his act together and get his dog under control. The dogs started to attack other people in the street. It owners like this that give pit bulls and other dogs a bad name. I agree Genetics come into play but if you have an owner who has a full deck and knows how to manage their dogs something like this would less likely to happen. A few months ago went to a pet expo there must of been 80 percent of dog owners with pit bulls who were all so well behaved.
 
#81 · (Edited)
My mom and dad had a shady neighbor who owned a pit bull. These people were a off and seemed to have had shady business dealings. The dog was always behind a fence and seemed friendly but again those people were off. We always visited my parents with our little kids. I did read, when I tried to prepare myself if anything happened if can't be avoided, that also to grab the dog by the rear legs like a wheelbarrow but to swing the dog in a circle continuously but you can not let them go until police arrive to contain the dog. I'm sure it looked easier on the video ,which was a real life attack caught on tape I believe it was the wife's husband the dog attacked the minute he left the dog go he thought it calmed down and let the dog go who just attacked him again. Another way that might get dog off someone is toHosing the dog or pouring a bottle of bleach over his head blinding the dog and then whacking I'm the head-sorry sounds horrible. This a two dogs attack though you would need to have an organized plan and a few people to stop this quickly. These dogs were attacking other people in the street. The fireman with the hose slowed the dog down and more then 12 cops standing their more then prepared made this handler get his act together and get his dog under control. It owners like this that give pit bulls and other dogs a bad name. I agree Genetics come into play but if you have an owner who has a full deck and knows how to manage their dogs something like this would less likely to happen. A few months ago went to a pet expo there must of been 80 percent of dog owners with pit bulls who were all so well behaved.
 
#84 ·
The people who carry have no intention of protecting anyone but themselves or their family. Just the way their mind works. They would watch and say "that dummy should have carried like I do"...
I, too, find this offensive. Where is the evidence to support such a statement?

And since this is a GSD forum I am sure that people here will be shocked and violently disagree but around here there are more aggressive, unruly, non trained GSD's than any other pure breds. A few weeks ago one of my leashed minature doxies was attacked by, (gasp say it ain't so), an unleashed GSD in a local park. It was not safe to use my back-up weapon because of nearby park patrons and children, but I did use a weighted 16 inch PVC pipe I carry. Smacked the dog and his dog companion a few times and it ran away to the applause of the park patrons. If they both had attacked yes, I would have shot them. But in this case it was not necessary.

And yes, in a perfect world people would be responsible and train their dogs and breeders, BYB or otherwise, would strive to produce more stable dogs. But this isn't a perfect world and none of this is likely to happen. So if BSL's against GSD's are enacted, it will be because not enough people cared to do the right thing. And GSD's as a breed will suffer.
 
#85 ·
I think the most effective solution would be to simply outlaw BYB, and force every dog to be neutered/spayed at X months. When you buy a puppy (from a proper breeder), the pup would come microchipped, and you will have pre-paid for the future spay/neuter (to eliminate any "I can't afford it" excuses down the line). Sure, the prices for dogs would climb up due to a suddenly limited supply, but the people getting the dogs would be responsible owners with the means and intention to take care of the dog.

Any people found to be intentionally breeding in their back yards should have their dogs and property seized.

Wishful thinking...
 
#86 ·
These dogs had prior incidences in then past I think they did bite someone and attacked peoples dogs. Maybe a heavy fine $$$$ would have to be the consequence of someone who has a dog that attacks other dogs or bite other people regardless if someone press charges or not and would have dog probation type officers making sure the owners are taking steps to manage their dog. It might or might not decrease an escalated event such as the mauling of this man. It may make someone think twice if they are capable or not owning such a dog and the demand will go down closing down some of the backyard breeders.
 
#87 ·
Where do you want them to breed...their side yard? ;) Who gets to decide what constitutes a BYB? And I'm sorry, but no one is telling me that I have to spay/neuter. I opted to do so when my GSD was 2 years old, but it was MY decision, not an arbitrary ruling. The government has already mucked up things for the responsible breeders as it is.

You know, I had a HA dog (GSD). The management just wasn't .. that ... hard. I was a pre-teen and still maintained control of my dog. I don't know what's stopping these adults. She was always properly contained and leashed whenever we were outside the fence. I obedience trained her and as long as no one approached her, she was indifferent to their presence. It CAN be taught.

Dogs with a bite history should wear a muzzle in public....or stay home.
 
#88 ·
I believe there is a big difference between professional breeders having a kennel at their homes and are in no way considered back yard breeders. The term referring to back yard breeding is someone who just breeds dogs out of their house for the sole purpose to make money and has no experience or interest about the breed.
 
#90 ·
Dog fighting is illegal, but they still find a way to do do it.. Just like murder, rape, assault, drugs, theft.. Banning byb is not going to stop anyone.

And if someone tried to tell me I needed to alter my dog, I can promise you I wouldn't.

It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Nothing is ever going to end, might as well just enjoy your time here.
 
#95 ·
It's simple: if you don't like Pits, don't get them. If you do like Pits, have one or are planning of having one, do your research, be responsible and never put them in a situation where they can do harm, no matter how much you trust them. Remember that before the first bite, "they never have hurt anyone".
It's OK to disagree on here and we probably will never be able to convince the other minded person to agree.
 
#96 ·
Chip18..."I think in CA they were proposing a "puppy tax, " to combat this "situation" but I believe "legitimate" "breeders" were opposed?? As well as the no new taxes crowd!:smirk: I lost track of it so I don't know that it ever happened???
Are you kidding me. I live in California and the Dems here never found a tax they didn't like. We already have the highest income tax in the nation, the highest gasoline tax and the highest sales taxes. In some part of California the income taxes between Fed, State and local is up to 63%. I would be highly ticked off if I had to pay a puppy tax on top of all that because other people can't or won't take care of their own dogs.
 
#101 ·
What a horrible, tragic event. I noticed the little girl right off the bat and could not believe that man just waltzed on in there with her, people astound me.
IMO those dogs were the 'typical' pit bull story. Untrained, encouraged to act like a 'pit bull', taught to play wild and hectic. Probably had a guy wrap towels around his arms, smack them up, scream at them. I think dogos too but they are mighty small. However, American pit bull terriers (if we are going to be specific here) bite and hold on. The one dog had some good holds and shakes, but let go and re bit many times. The other dog did a whole lot of bouncing and jumping in and out. 'Pit bulls' do not do that, especially not trained ones.
On the topic of breeds, there is : American pit bull terrier (APBT) recognized by ADBA, American Staffordshire terrier (Amstaff) recognized by AKC/CKC and can be dual registered as a pit bull with ADBA and Staffordshire bull terrier (staffies) which is England's version of the American pit bull terrier. Pit bulls are smaller size than Amstaffs.
For all of those who think that pit bulls are the number one biting breed and german shepherds only kill one person per year please read the book Pit Bull Placebo [ame]http://www.amazon.ca/The-Pit-Bull-Placebo-Aggression/dp/0972191410[/ame] . It really opens your eyes on what the true statistics are. Believe it or not Bloodhounds once were the breed flavour of the decade and were responsible for most deaths by dogs at that the time.
I live in Ontario which has the largest geographical area BSL in North America. I have a grandfathered American pit bull terrier, this August marked 10 years that she has worn her muzzle. There are still pit bulls and puppies. I love it when I see them but I fear for their lives. Over the years people have just turned to other breeds. I'd say the number one biting large dog in my city is the German shepherd. I work pet retail in a low income city centre area. I see a LOT of dogs. The pit bull type dogs (I like to call 'em pitties) are generally sweet and outgoing as bully breeds should be, while most gsds I see are out of control nervebags whose owners are purchasing muzzles for. I rarely see a nice GSD who is a great representative of their breed. My heart breed is horribly represented by the majority of it's population here. Most people who have been bit by dogs have been bit by a gsd. I hear of a serious gsd attack often enough. Recently a friend of mine's daughter went through a situation very similar to that video, but with german shepherds. I have also seen a surge of poorly bred boxers, rotties and dobes. But the one that I hear about attacking is most often gsds.
I'll be the very first to say apbts are NOT a breed for everyone, just like the gsd is not a breed for everyone. You need to know what they are before you get one, and you need to be prepared to handle it. When they bite, it really is serious, and I won`t argue that. Unlike most of the haters here who want them banned, knows a friend of a friend who`s dog turned on them out of the blue, or watched so many videos or read an article once and it said millions of people are killed by pit bulls every year, I have dealt with pit bulls gone wrong. A few of them. I`ve seen how they attack, I`ve been the one to get them off. It is not something the general public is capable of doing. But neither would it be easy if it was two german shepherds, or two labs. There was recently a video on my facebook about a Labrador that attacked a pit bull being walked by a kid. It was nasty, the owner ran after her dog and had it up in the air by its backlegs. It wasn`t letting go. Pittie was one of the great big headed blue ones too. The kid obviously couldn`t do anything to get the lab off his dog. A security camera caught it all. If I were more computer literate I`d be able to find it. I tried on youtube but when you put in `lab attacks pit bull all you get is videos of pit bulls attacking and dogs playing. Guess the serious attack where the woman legitimately cannot get her lab off of another dog isn`t big enough news for youtube. Just like you didn`t hear about it on national news ;)
I just don`t think breed specific legislation is the answer. But I have no idea what the answer is. There are too many pit bulls and too many idiots wanting to own them. And too many idiots in general owning dogs and not caring for them properly. We need something, but what is it? We really shouldn`t be encourage breed bias`s though, it`s already difficult for people to rent or get insurance with our own breed.
Well I guess that's my rant lol. I've been watching this thread since it's been posted but haven't had time to say my thoughts.
 
#102 ·
Ha! I left Cali because I could see the prices going crazy. Couldn't water your lawns - water rationing.

Now, I live in an area that has so much water. Guess what - we have to pay extra on our water bills to subsidize our utility company that is mandated to pump water down to Cali! You can't win.
 
#104 ·
@llombardo Excellent point. Insurance companies are in the market to make money, not to promote nor discriminate against any breed. Your information on German Shepherds killing three people last year is not correct. There have possibly been three deaths by German Shepherds over the last three to four years, but not this year or last. Pit Bulls are number one when it comes to extreme attacks and fatalities. There has been at least 15 Pit Bull fatalities this year alone, most of them babies, children and elderly.

@Debanneball Relatively few communities in the US have laws regulating Pit Bulls and muzzles, especially ones that need it the most.

@jschrest Animal Control today faces a lot of issues. One problem today is that if you work AC, in many areas, you are going to spend your work day dealing with and handling Pit Bulls. Many good people have left the field as this is not what they wanted to do with their lives leaving Pit Bull advocates to fill the voids. Don't expect to get much law enforcement from many of them. Many have an axe to grind.

@Saphire You stated that bite stats for Pit Bulls have dropped dramatically after enacting BSL. Isn't that the primary purpose of BSL? To reduce dog bite rates and the severity of attacks by the breed(s) doing the deed?

@yuriy Why should owners of other breeds be forced to spay and neuter their dogs because there is a Pit Bull problem? Many shelters in a lot of area are teeming with Pit Bulls, not other breeds. It is nearly a million Pit Bulls being euthanized in the US every single year for over a decade, not other breeds. In fact, there is a major shortage of other breeds in shelters for adoption in many areas. If German Shepherds or any other breed were filling the shelters and facing this euthanization rate, I would venture to say their respective communities would be very active in resolving the issue, not denying it.

@Jenny720 Fining after the attack does not bring back the lives of pets that have been killed or repair the damage to a child facing years of reconstructive surgery.

@wolfy dog You are correct. You will not change the minds of the fans of the breed, but you can educate the minds of those who think it is all about how you raise and train them. You can't hug and kiss the genetics out of a dog.

@valb I feel your pain. Until you have seen your dog in the jaws of an unrelenting Pit Bull, and given your all to save your loved one, you can't impress on others how it feels to be so helpless in defending your little buddy. If it were a Rott or a GSD a few good kicks would have solved the problem, the same can't be said about Pits. They are genetically bred to grip and not let go.
 
#106 ·
No it would not. I never said it would. I think your statement would be better suited toward the irresponsible owner who owns a dog that would do such things. Nothing brings back the lives of a pet that has been attacked or repair the damages to a child's face.
 
#105 ·
Haters are people who don't think the lives of innocent victims matter and who bash and villify these victims and their families.

As of this year, the ADBA no longer cross registers American Staffordshire Bull Terriers as American Pit Bull Terriers. They feel they are too different to any longer be considered one and the same.

Karen Delise is a leading Pit Bull advocate. To waste one's time reading anything written by her in a search for fair and unbiased information regarding her heart breed would not be considered time and money well spent. One's resources would be better spent on researching unskewed ALL breed information by somebody without a horse in the race, comparing apples to apples, and making up one's own mind.

As previously pointed out on another post, the Pit Bull advocacy will stop at no underhanded tactic to keep its breed in the status quo, including throwing other breeds, such as the German Shepherd or Boxers under the bus hence stirring up the fear that our breed will be next. One can't compare mere dog bites to Pit Bull maulings as in this video.

There is an important aspect to note as the Pit Bull advocacy is well funded and they are pushing their all breed laws in lieu of laws that address the problem at hand. Ohio repealed its effective BSL just a couple of years ago and now it is one of the leading states in dog bite related fatalities by Pit Bulls again. In those two short years, Ohio is for the third time revisiting its ineffective all breed dangerous dog laws as its watered down laws are doing little to impact the carnage.

Yes, a Lab here and a Golden there over the past decade or two have been responsible for extreme attacks, but you can't compare one every three, four, or ten years to 15 or more by one breed just in the last few months.
 
#115 ·
You can blame the owners all you want.
Of course you have to blame the owners?? And those that are breeding these types of dogs that are out of standard and not the true character of the breed..

The same crap is happening with all the working breeds..

This is not just a Pit Bull or Amstaff issue.. It's that this breed is the one that always makes the news... You don't hear about the Mali that ripped it's handlers ear off, or the shepherd that mauled the **** out of it's owners arms/hands/legs, or the Chow that mauled the owners friends face, or the Akita that killed the neighbors dogs, or the Cocker that bit the kid in the face..
 
#116 ·
I found this yesterday. It's from an article that was in the Toronto Sun. The PB ban went into effect in 2005. This and several other articles state that the ban has been a success. One article mentioned that Boxers have become the bully dog of choice now. However, since the ban - no other breed of dog has filled it's place (not even close) to the number of attacks that were documented with the PB breeds. Interesting to note that several breed bites dramatically decreased. Was this because the owners realized they better get their act together?

So, a success story. One solution that strictly enforced - worked. I think that any alternative methods mentioned here would simple take too much policing (time and money) to enforce.
 

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#117 ·
Random, probably off topic question here: how do people get around ban breeds by claiming an animal to be mixed? It makes little sense to me. You have a pit mix. What is it mixed with? You mix a pit with any other breed that is known to have aggression issues (GSD) or one known to inflict great damage while attacking (ROTTIE), wouldn't you have more of a dangerous animal? I know little to nothing about breeding and lines, obviously ;) but wouldn't traits from both breeds be past down to that mix? Would a pit/lab mix be less predispositioned to snap than a pit/rot?

I know the pit mix I had that turned on me once was a pit/lab, but I got him as a rescue, and he wasn't in a safe stable home before mine, so it's hard to say if it was the breeding or raising (or a combination) in that case.

As for the animal control issue with pits, I can understand them being turned off and turning away after seeing pit after pit coming in. It's one of the reason I myself stop rescuing for years. It was pit after pit after pit. I'm not saying that they don't deserve a chance, or that they should all be put down, it just gets exhausting after awhile, and I, for one, started feeling like I was contributing to the issue rather than helping. I never sought them out, it was me getting calls, from my vet, friends, co workers. When I first started I had a mix of breeds coming in, but as soon as I took the first pit in, it's like I became the "pit lady" and that's all I would get calls on. They are hard breds to work with, and I was always concerned after rehoming them. I wasn't vested in the breed, I didn't "sign up" to be a pit rescuer, and that's what I had become. Have an issue with your pit? Call Jenn, she can tell you how to fix the issue. Or take your dog and "fix" him/her. It felt like the longer I was in it, the more I became an issue rather than solution.

As for pit vs Pitt, I can't speak for others, but if capatalize the P, my phone autocorrects it to Pitt. Maybe that's why you see a lot of mispellings?
 
#118 ·
Its the dog. Anytime a pitbull has a behavior problem in training its magnified by 100.

Are there good ones out there? Sure. Dogs out there that wouldnt hurt a fly? Yup. But there are a lot of problem dogs just waiting to powder keg into a tragedy. Thats part of the problem theres such a giant variance in dog between sweet and harmless to complete drivy lunatic within the same breed its easy for people to get a dog expecting one thing and ending up with another.
 
#119 ·
The irony of this thread to me is that I know a lot of PB rescuers and shelter intake staff who love PBs and swear they can read them and know when they are going to lash out -- and those same people also swear GSDs are unpredictable and don't telegraph bites! I know at least a half dozen shelter vet techs and intake people who are very afraid of GSDs because they believe they are unpredictable and bite without warning. .

I've spent some time working with one shelter temperament evaluator (a PB fan) who wants to see the cues I'm seeing, and I think they're just missing the ear position cues from GSDs. GSD people know that GSDs have a conversation with you using their ear positions, and a quarter inch difference in angle means something. All their emotions are broadcast loud and clear though the ears.

I've never known a GSD who didn't telegraph an intent to lunge very clearly with its ears and body language, but these people aren't seeing the telegraphing. They don't see what I see when I'm "reading" a GSD in a shelter eval, and I find it really weird since they are good at reading bully-breeds.

I've never been bitten by a GSD in a shelter eval because DH and I are watching the ears along with other body cues--the ones who would have sunken teeth into me gave their intention away before they were close enough to me to be in striking distance. I wouldn't eval PBs though because I truly can't read them.

It makes me wonder whether reading a breed is like becoming fluent in a foreign language. Just because you can read one (GSD) may not mean you can read the other (PB). Just a thought.
 
#130 ·
I have never been present when a pit bull attacked anyone (actually made contact and caused an injury). I have been present when GSDs did, and every time I could read the GSD, and every time it was one bite, usually requiring some form of medical care.

Someone more familiar with PBs than GSDs might be able to read them better.

The difference for me is the length of the attack and the amount of damage done. Taking something the strength and courage to manage bulls and crossing it with dogs with the go go go of terriers, and you have a formidable breed that is likely to go over the top.

Continuously breeding these dogs for the traits that make them excel in blood sports only makes them that more likely to go over the top.

Humans may have made this breed, and maybe humans need to obliterate it. I don't know. I don't like the idea of demanding people kill their pets. But if these attacks continue, I would not be surprised if governments do make laws against them. And if they do, I would hope they would go to mandatory spay/neuter if this type of dog, than going straight to the euthanize all of them.

Why not BSL? I know everyone says if not pit bull, than the thugs will go after Rottweilers, or GSDs, and we will be next. I disagree. Even crappy GSDs do not do the damage that pits do. They bite once or twice and then they are pretty much done. I don't like being lumped together with the breeds that do the damage that pit bulls do, and I am getting tired of the threats and laws that curtail all dogs because a group of breeds are seriously dangerous. People have vilified the idea of BSL.

Pit bull owners are trying to get the backing of all dog owners by scaring them into believing they will be next. If they would clean up their own act too, that might work ok. But they aren't. We see and hear of serious attacks like these, and people do everything from blaming the victim to denying what the dog is. But they aren't addressing the problems. Why should the owner of a setter or a golden share the same constraints as pit bulls, when the likelihood of them maiming or killing someone is pretty near zero. Why not BSL?
 
#120 ·
ETA: Mineareworkingline, you are lucky if there are no GSDs in shelters where you live. In the American South, Southwest (esp. Texas), and West Coast (esp. California), GSDs die in droves in shelters. There's no way rescues can get them all. Last time I checked in the national database (last year), GSDs were the second or third most euthanized breed in the US in shelters. In one mid-size city, over a two-year period, we logged over 100 of them coming in to one public shelter. Our most common age to see in this breed in my region is adolescent (1-2 y.o.), when people give up on a dog that suddenly got too big, too strong, and too energetic for them to handle without training or experience.
 
#121 ·
Magwart, in shelters here, it's unusual to see any breed other than a chi(mix) or pit(mix). Very rarely do we see shepherds or labs. I don't think it's a lack of the breed being around, I see plenty of shepherds out and about, and we even have a FB meetup group for shepherds. I have a BYB across the street from me that has a few litters a year. I don't know where these dogs end up, because I know they aren't home to caring responsible homes. I think they are probably just thrown into someone's backyard. It's sad, I'd rather see them in shelters where they can be adopted into a home that will actually care for them and love them, than to see them just made into yard dogs.

I find it easier to read pits than I do shepherds, but can still read both. The most difficult rescue case I had was a shepherd/rot mix. I rarely took in puppies, mainly because most people where willing to, it's the older dogs that got thrown by the way side, so I focused on those. But no one was willing to take this puppy. I was confused. It's a puppy, how much problem could it be? Man was I wrong. This pup was just wired wrong. It would be happily sleeping, and suddenly lunge up and take off attacking anything in sight, my feet baring most of the damage. It wasn't landsharking, it was a full on attack. Hackles raised, lips curled, and intent on drawing blood. He would be perfectly happy and playing with a toy, and turn and attack. I don't really know how to describe it, but you could literally see a switch flip with him and he would be in attack mode. He had his landshark moments, which were easy to spot. Normal mouthing, normal nipping. His attack mode was frightening. I deemed him to be out of my level of management and took him to a trainer. The trainer saw no issues the first two times and probably thought I was crazy (that little devil acted like a normal pup those first two visit). The third visit he unleashed his fury on the trainer. The trainer took one look at me and said he wasn't a dog that I could manage. He would be a very large, very dangerous dog. I agreed. I know my limits and am not afraid to admit it. He offered to take him in, and I handed over the leash. He was put down 2 months later after attacking and killing an adult Rottie, unprovoked, after 2 months of extensive training with the trainer. He showed no signs. No ears being cocked, no curving, nothing. Literally from sleeping or playing contently to full on attack in seconds. Apparently the trainer had let the adult Rot out into the yard and was going through training exercises, and the puppy jumped through a glass window, attacked, and killed the Rot. Sad situation all around. I learned later that every pup in that litter was eventually euthanized for much of the same thing this pup displayed.
 
#122 · (Edited)
I volunteered at the Humane Society while deployed (yes, deployed) to Hawaii last year. That shelter had every breed imaginable. I posted pics of the GSDs I was taking for walks and dedicating most of my time to. They also had Dobermans, rotts, pits, etc. The dogs that were found and dropped off at the Humane Society were kept away from the adoptable dogs until they were able to pass a temperment and health test. Those pits and GSDs (and all other dogs: purebreds and mutts) that passed were moved to the adoptable area. Those who didn't were put down due to their aggression or reactive nature, or because of health reasons. So I would think other shelters across the Nation operated the same way. ONLY the pits who are NOT aggressive are available for viewing/adopting. I'm sure for every 1 pit in the adopted area, there are plenty more that get put down due to aggression, which is most likely due to lack of training, which would point back to the owners/handlers that originally had the pit and trained it wrong or didn't train it at all. The pits I spent time with there were wonderful dogs. I would own a pit in a heartbeat. I just prefer pointy-eared dogs instead.
 
#150 ·
Shelters house mainly young Pits who passed their tests with flying colors before DA surfaces.
Part of the problem on the shelter side is that I think there are some pretty serious flaws in the ASPCA's SAFER test protocol. This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I don't know what the solution is.

I like that shelters are trying to temp test systematically, but the test seems to be designed for entry-level shelter staff with no background in dogs to implement by checking boxes. Any test has to be easy to use and "cookie cutter" for inexperienced staff to do routinely, or shelters won't use it. (Most don't have a behaviorist!) That aspect of it is exactly why it is so unreliable though.

Allegedly bully breeds do better than any other breed on that test -- it's the test used nationwide in shelters to decide who's adoptable and who's not. For anyone curious about it, you can learn about it here: SAFER Assessment Items | ASPCA Professional

I can't say why so many bully-breeds ace the SAFER test, but I know a lot of perfectly good GSDs (and mals) do terribly on SAFER. If they are naturally aloof, they'll score poorly. If they are suspicious when a stranger grabs their paw, they'll score poorly. If they are not friendly and happy when another goofy dog is walked nose to nose on leash, they score poorly. Those three things are often enough for them to be tagged as "rescue only" (not for public adoption) at many shelters, and put down immediately at others. If they think the rubber-hand-on-the-stick device is a tug toy, they are in deep trouble (and may even be labeled as potentially human aggressive...even though they just go for the interesting rubber "toy" not any human).

WL GSDs seem to fare the worst on it. Aloofness and natural suspicion doom them on that test. Bouncy, friendly, goofy dogs do great.

We need a better evaluation system nationwide. I don't know what it ought to be, but I think what we have now isn't working very well (over-identifying GSD issues, and probably under-identifying PB issues). Or maybe it's a problem of evaluator bias?
 
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