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Aggression and stuff about my dog

22K views 284 replies 26 participants last post by  glowingtoadfly 
#1 ·
From the other thread

Gtf, it wasn't a club that evaluated him. I didn't go there yet. I asked my trainer to eval him. My trainer competes nationally and I'd say def knows what he's doing. He also hosts a club though not taking any members now (or didn't want my dog)

In any case, I'm having a hard time dismissing what he says. I might still go for the eval and the club already told me they Will take him. They said any dog can do some parts. It is expensive, $500 down and $100 a month. So if anything, I'd be more inclined to ignore their eval because they'd tell me things I want to hear to get me to join.

My trainer isn't gaining or losing anything.

But my dog has nerve issues. There is no way around it. I can dance around and make excuses but there's no reason for him to bark at people. He barks at someone almost every day. He barks at every dog.

My trainer saw him react to a dog and said It was defense, so fear but I already knew that.

I'm almost sure he reacts to people out of fear too.

The reason I'm trying to understand what drives his reactions is because I don't want to punish fear. I'm confused.

Also, I can't correct him hard enough. Once he goes into a fit he doesn't feel anything.

Even if he wants to sniff something really bad or pull - I can yank all I want, total ignore.


If he's fear aggressive or insecure then where's this hardness coming from? How does he take all this pain and ignore it? Or he can be nervy and hard at the same time?


I'm soo confused if it's not obvious


One more thing. I know I should catch the reaction before it happens (optimally) but since I've missed a few I think now I might be popping him thinking he was about to react and he wasn't.
So unfair again
 
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#221 ·
If you have a reactive dog, then you have no business multitasking on a walk. So don't walk and read. How do you even do that. You walk with your nose in a book or with audiobooks and are not paying attention to what the dog is doing?

If he is reactive, how can you possibly stay below his threshold if you are not paying attention to him.

Lots of times a dog will give a heightened reaction when we tighten up on the lead. Staying calm, leaving the leash loose and increasing the distance so that no one gets injured no matter what, can actually help a lot. When we tighten up on the leash, we are transmitting to our dog: "BAD SHTUFF IS GOING DOWN!!!" When we grab their muzzle the dog is thinking, "Yo, wha??? What's happening, Why??? who-What is that???" And this does exactly the opposite of what you want, the dog is more dangerous, because now he is frightened. It is something we create in our dogs sometimes.

That doesn't mean that dogs don't learn it too. I mean if you tighten up whenever you see big black dogs, and the dog starts to react to big black dogs. After we have taught him that big black dogs are scary, he may react even if we don't tighten up because we have taught him to be wary of them.
 
#219 ·
your nerves are going right down the leash to him. Everyone keeps telling you that you need to show confidence in your handling so he will feel that you have his back. He needs to look to you for safety so he won't feel that need to be 'on' all the time.
Step up your handling skills, keep him engaged and in obedience when you think he's possibly going to go off. don't correct for the reactive behaviors but for the lack of obedience. And make it worthy, not a nag.
 
#224 ·
I'm able to stop a reaction if I notice before he does. Most of them unless I do something stupid and I know what I did wrong so I do right next time.

The reactions he's still having are those I didn't notice in time. .
Also, I failed him so many times that I don't think he can trust me now. I'm not sure how to show him that He can.

I'd love to be able to put him in a down when a dog is running at us and step in front And deal with It but I can't. He won't stay. I'm working on a solid down and sit now.
 
#222 ·
Muzzle: Get one where they can get treats pretty easy, can pant, and smell, are comfortable and think about year round wear (as in no metal for winter).
This is a muzzle i got. I love it, Zelda is okay with it, and my Vet loves it so much he wanted to know what it is to refer it to another client. It's the Leather Basket Muzzle from Dean and Tyler



Royal Leather Basket

Vests: Unlike what you think, people do actually read them, or at least will have an automatic response to a particular color vest you have on your dog. Yellow and black i believe is the best color.
For your dog, i would get either "Please Give Me Space" https://www.etsy.com/listing/167352...to=US&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

or what i am getting my dog "IN TRAINING No Touch, No Talk" I chose this one over the other one, because i don't necessarily want them to give her space, just to ignore her, while i work with her. And i got the jacket in yellow and black.
https://www.etsy.com/transaction/205140614?ref=shop_review


Some ideas:
My first trainer told me to try this. Go into a park. Tie her leash to a park bench and hang out with her. When someone walks by and she reacts. Get up and walk away from her. To basically let her know you find the behavior unacceptable to the point of even leaving her. (You can even put a sign up next the bench or something, saying you are training and to ignore the dog while walking by)
Another trainer said, to do slow interactions at her pace. Treat and treat and treat for every time she looks at the person without a reaction. She can look alert. And slowly work your way up with each person where they make slight eye contact, reward and treat. "Have parties." Where you get all excited and treat them like crazy for looking without reacting. Counter conditioning them to the scary thing. Making the scary thing into a good thing basically.
Another trainer told me, to basically do hand targeting to a level where she is REALLY Into it. (Where you say "Touch" and hold your hand anywhere, and she is to touch her nose to it) And then eventually transfer that to a stranger.
And another trainer said, to basically do obedience and every time she disobeys while even distraction is around she gets corrected and praised once she starts obeying. For instance she knows heel well and she is to heel next to me and not concentrate on anything but me. Because this trainer believes that once they are in a particular pattern. Barking, lunging at strangers, it soons becomes habit. And i can go into more detail at some point when im not in a hurry!
 

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#227 ·
Vt, that's the muzzle I was looking at. This one and a similar one.

I will not do the sign and vest, that will just attract attention to us. At the very least people are looking towards us to read the signs. That sets him off when some people look at him.

I can't tie him up and walk away, that alone will send him in to a frenzy though I do like the idea.

Yeah, the obedience is what we are doing. And it's a habit for him at this point, I agree
 
#230 ·
You don't have to stare at your dog the entire time you take a walk, or gee did I read that right? Your READING your IPHONE? Put him on a leash, walk like your on a mission and be done with it:)

I'm glad you've said your the problem, because I think you've hit the nail on the head.

You won't let your trainer take him for a few days to straighten him out, you wont straighten him out..I say, quite complaining about it, learn to live with what you've got, because ya know what? There will be no change because you are hampering it.

Again, you've got a novel going here, that is just that, a novel. You have managed to confuse this dog, which you admit, you need to learn to live with what you have and deal with it because all this 'posting' has been of no benefit to the dog.

Maybe I sound harsh, so be it, it bothers me to see people with probably NICE dogs, screw them up and then just whine and moan they can't fix the dog..You've gotten tons of suggestions over the past couple years, and STILL seem to have not been able to apply one of them..

Again, sorry I'm sounding harsh, but geeeez stop talking about it, consider the dog's life and find a reputable trainer that will make a change, otherwise, live with the way he is and deal..done..
 
#234 ·
I am dealing with it. I came to terms with It a while ago. If I fix it - good, if not then oh well.

I only care about the reactivity because I know it doesn't feel good to him to have these fits. If I knew He is content reacting I wouldn't care. I'd just stay away from people

The posting is helping me see things I don't see on my own

I am looking for a trainer that can work with me on the streets
 
#231 ·
I have the same D&T muzzle, it's very nice. I don't need it with my dog, but I think it's good to have them muzzled trained, just in case. If you're going to get one, this is a good one.

I can't help but laugh, reading this thread. Not at you or your dog, but at the whole situation: it really reminds me of my work environment! As soon as the boss is gone, you can tell! People start texting their friends, or stand around chatting - just generally goofing off. Like how your dog is when you're not paying attention to him. Smart dog, he knows when he can start having fun, lol. Because barking and jumping around is fun, ask any dog :)

Queens sounds like a very nice place to live. There's no way I could walk around at 2am without paying attention, when I lived in the city. Yikes, that would have been inviting trouble!
 
#236 ·
My area is not bad at all. But I'm also not the most cautious person. Without him I'm always reading. With him it's only after I looked around for triggers. But I'm stopping this. Sunflowers has a good point.

Yeah,all my threads are insane. I'm insane too.

Does everyone do better with their first dog? Am I really failing this bad?

But I try my best, I really do. If I wrote everything I've done this wouldn't be a novel,it'd be I don't know how long

I also try to be honest about things I do wrong.
 
#235 ·
Most trainers will want to work with you first way under threshold before going to maximum, without so much liability.

My trainer and i are working for 3-5 sessions before going into a highly populated place. In which i plan on muzzling her. Who is to say a little kid (or even adult) isn't going to come up running to you, not listening to you saying. "Give him space!" and goes to grab your dog for a hug? Or from behind and you didn't see it coming? Better not needing it and having it on, than needing it and not having it on.

I think it's unsafe and not responsible of anyone to have a dog without a muzzle with any reactivity to humans in such a highly populated area, with the sounds of what your boy is doing and my girl. Ultimately, not fair to them either. Setting them up for failure.
 
#237 ·
Sunflowers has an excellent point, lol. Honestly, walking really slow and ignoring your dog must be so boring for him - no wonder he's on the prowl for something to bark at. If the most exciting thing he gets to do on a walk is pee on a bush, you almost have to expect some mischief. A nice quick pace would definitely make a big difference. Don't worry, I'm insane too - I talk to my dog on walks, "Yeah, I saw that frog too! He was a big one!" We have a good time together, and I think you're missing out on that.
 
#239 ·
No, we usually walk fast. Once in a blue, at night, I'd read on the way home. I gave that as an example to say he can't be feeding off me because sometimes I don't see things.

He barks because he's scared. I'm sure I could've done things different when this started to not have this problem today But at this point he's scared. Walk fast, slow, he will bark.

I will ask a trainer when I find one to walk him without me. I'd say he will still bark but I believe a trainer can shut him up quicker and possibly stop this behavior if he was their dog.


We just came back. Nice walk. Did a little food trail in the grass and let him find it. People walking by everywhere and he just kept sniffing. We didn't see any dogs though.

I loved the nose stuff. I will be doing this every day
 
#238 ·
Music helps you speed up.
I put on my favorite music with the iPhone in my pocket, and do not even bother with head phones. I even sing along sometimes... Gets Hans to do a doggie grin. That dog loves to be sung to, LOL!

And it puts me in a happy mood. I'm sure it travels down the leash.
 
#240 ·
Also, tried ordering a muzzle and they don't have a leather muzzle for his measurements lol. Will try a different place.

I'm not sure about the muzzle though it'd be interesting to see what happens. I have a feeling it will make things worse. He will feel vulnerable

I will go a few more days and see how we do. Its been good lately. Not to jinx
 
#243 ·
Good point. Another question. Sometimes he ignores the dogs I saw and I think he didn't see them. I'm almost sure he didnt because his ears didn't perk up, his didn't focus. I know when he does.

Does this count? He didn't react but he didn't see them. People tell me they notice everything. I don't think he does.

If a dog passes right by I don't see him not reacting but who knows.
 
#245 · (Edited)
Your question is a good one, and this is partly why I think your dog is reacting out of boredom. I know we have better eyesight than they do, but their sense of smell is incredible. So if you see a dog in the area, even if your dog can't see it, I'd imagine he can smell it. If he's not reacting to it at that distance, then he's fine with them not right directly in his face. But if he was truly frightened by them, wouldn't he be reacting as soon as he knew they were there? IDK. I know my dog will bark at other dogs or people, out of excitement. But if he's in the middle of a game then nothing else interests him in the least - not people, dogs, you name it. That's why I like to use "Quiet" for the yapping and "Leave it" for nosiness. And after he's had a good workout, he's the best behaved dog in town, lol.
 
#246 ·
Walking the dog while reading is like 2 people sitting at the same table with one checking Facebook. No engagement.

The first thing I train people to do is engage with the dog. You're in it together. If Fama is sleeping and I move in my chair, she is checking me out to see if I'm doing something or going somewhere.

I also can't even fathom a trainer that wouldn't want to see the dog performing the problem behavior before beginning training. A general assessment is the first thing they should be doing, especially with behavioral issues.

David Winners
 
#247 ·
My dog does the same. I haven't been in the bathroom alone since I got him. He follows me everywhere inside and outside. Sometimes I take a break from him lol and zone out or read.

Me walking and reading happened a few times for 5 mins at a time. I gave it as an example that I'm not feeding his reactions because twice when I did that we bumped into dogs.

And I agree about the trainer. It's been really hard for me to find a good trainer. This guy is top in sport. How do I find a good one????

He's number 6. 1 I liked but he's in CA. The other 5 I didn't like for different reasons.

There's one more that's been working with me long distance. She's amazing and I wish she was here.
 
#249 ·
Ok lol I'm a believer. We just came back. Had 3 reactions. One was my fault. I'm still struggling with this, telling owners with dogs I know to not come over. Hopefully one day.

The other two I didn't see the dogs. They were pretty close and he had the fits I was trying to describe here.

One hard pop shut him up both tines. Especially the second time. That was the scenario I'm most scared of. Dog coming out of nowhere on a 4 ft sidewalk.

I popped him hard and he shut up.


So I will give this a try. We have a few aggressive dogs here and I'm still scared of bumping into them but will deal with that when it happens.

Thanks to Steve for the idea to sit him down on the side and stand between him and everything else.

He doesn't want to sit, I'm having to correct for that too. To be honest I feel bad correcting this much and this hard but if this fixes reactivity pretty quick I'm ready.



Question. He does this thing sometimes when we are walking, he tries to jump on me, as a way to get me to stop, I don't let him But I stop and he lies down and on his side and waits for me to pet his side and stomach (opens legs but he always does that when we pet)

It's really adorable and I don't mind but is he stressed and that's his way of asking for reassursnce? Also sometimes he goes between my legs and that's also looking for comfort, right?

Any comments on this?
 
#255 ·
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

"Who Pets My Puppy or Dog" Custom made! You can add '"he's in training so I'd rather you didn’t" if you like."

And add if they ask training for what?? You could add "he's learning not to bite the crap out of people!!"

I don't play! My dog did not need a bite history on his record! After awhile he learned his place was behind me when I spoke to folks and people were no big deal!

Today he is safe in public and I do allow people to pet him...he could careless, good enough! :)
 
#252 ·
I look at things from the perspective of how I'd like it if it was done to me. If I don't like it I try not to do it. I wouldn't like this.
It doesn't sound tough but I'd say you need a mean streak to ignore someone you approached with your dog many times before.
 
#253 ·
I have two very nice neighbor ladies, who are always saying hi to me, and one is offended Zelda still doesnt like her. And the other lady is always saying "hello Zelda" from a distance.

I've approached both of them, without Zelda, to tell them about Zelda. So they already know.

And i have no problem telling people that my dog has fear aggression and i'm trying to keep her under threshold, or to just give her space, or that were in training. But usually i am the one crossing the street, or having her sit and wait while people pass, and turning my back towards the people. (that is my body language) And people get it. Usually people will than pass by and say how beautiful she is. And i say "Thank you!" And once they pass we keep walking.

One lady asked me the other day, because she was going by and i couldnt cross the street cause a car was coming, asked if she was mean. I had Zelda in a sit and wait, and i crouched in front of her and held her, the lady asked if my dog was "mean." I am like "nope, she has fear aggression and doesn't trust people."

My last resort is already planned out. If someone approaches and i am telling them off and i have no where to go and i can guess their intention are going to be way past Zelda's threshold. I will pick Zelda up (She is only 70 pounds) And YELL, "I SAID KEEP THE (insert swear word) AWAY (Insert another swear word)." That should help. If i have to be mean, to keep everyone safe. I sure will! :D
 
#254 ·
keeping away people I don't know is different and easy, I just say he's not friendly and thank those that compliment and walk on. I've gotten dirty looks and weird reactions but those don't bother me.

it's those that I 'know' (casual like seen a few times) that I'm uncomfortable with because in the past I let them approach. so I feel a little weird walking away from them or telling them to not come close because I've let them all the other times.

maybe one day but so far I wasn't able to.
 
#256 ·
I read everything there is on leerburg many times over.

people that I can't say no to aren't going to stop for signs. even if they read the sign they will assume it's there for others because we know each other. and will def want to come over to ask me about it.

and also my boy already wears 3 collars (sometimes 4 with ecollar) so not looking for anything else to add :)

I will try saying no to people I know.
 
#257 ·
You have to be your dog's advocate. A true friend, an acquaintance worth continuing to know will accept it if you tell them not to approach your dog properly. If someone continues to come forward -- "no, really, all dogs love me." -- then step forward and say "Do NOT approach him. We are working on a problem."

The thing is, best case scenario is that you go over the dog's threshold, he reacts, doesn't hurt anybody, but it is a set back, because you were unable to protect him from the semi-stranger. The worst case scenario is that someone gets hurt and then we have a different kind of thread with all sorts of complications. Please, we do not want to get to that kind of a thread with your pup.

So, if necessary, take a self-defense course. They will teach you to assert yourself. It will help with your dog too. It's good exercise and really worth the time and effort. Every woman should take some form of self-defense.
 
#258 ·
lol I will think about it


unrelated. is it true that strong sex drive equals dominance and therefore absence of one is submission? my boy doesn't have a strong sex drive

also, some dogs after pooping do this thing with the back legs, like spreading it. same dogs i see doing it are also those that started lifting legs early, can't leave a female alone and so on. so I'd say the strong sex drive dogs do the thing with the back legs after pooping though I only know a few dogs. just thought it was an interesting coincidence.


trying to read my dog. I'd say he's pretty submissive to me, not that I like it. just stating a fact

approaches with head low ears back, any time I go for his stomach to pet opens his legs (so adorable and touching), is very affectionate overall. sometimes 'talks back' to me and makes it look like he wants to nip me (extremely adorable)))))))

but with dogs i don't see any signs of submission. is that possible? I thought a dog is either submissive or he isn't

am I wrong on anything I said here?
 
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