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Aggression and stuff about my dog

22K views 284 replies 26 participants last post by  glowingtoadfly 
#1 ·
From the other thread

Gtf, it wasn't a club that evaluated him. I didn't go there yet. I asked my trainer to eval him. My trainer competes nationally and I'd say def knows what he's doing. He also hosts a club though not taking any members now (or didn't want my dog)

In any case, I'm having a hard time dismissing what he says. I might still go for the eval and the club already told me they Will take him. They said any dog can do some parts. It is expensive, $500 down and $100 a month. So if anything, I'd be more inclined to ignore their eval because they'd tell me things I want to hear to get me to join.

My trainer isn't gaining or losing anything.

But my dog has nerve issues. There is no way around it. I can dance around and make excuses but there's no reason for him to bark at people. He barks at someone almost every day. He barks at every dog.

My trainer saw him react to a dog and said It was defense, so fear but I already knew that.

I'm almost sure he reacts to people out of fear too.

The reason I'm trying to understand what drives his reactions is because I don't want to punish fear. I'm confused.

Also, I can't correct him hard enough. Once he goes into a fit he doesn't feel anything.

Even if he wants to sniff something really bad or pull - I can yank all I want, total ignore.


If he's fear aggressive or insecure then where's this hardness coming from? How does he take all this pain and ignore it? Or he can be nervy and hard at the same time?


I'm soo confused if it's not obvious


One more thing. I know I should catch the reaction before it happens (optimally) but since I've missed a few I think now I might be popping him thinking he was about to react and he wasn't.
So unfair again
 
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#168 ·
I thought about doing this. I posted earlier, I'm afraid that by making him sit when a dog goes by I'm making it an event. I'd like a 'keep going, nothing special' approach.

But it does sound appealing because it's breaking the sit he's being punished for
 
#169 ·
And why forget the videos lol? This is separate from reactivity. I like to have him have fun during training. Any trainer I go to isn't too interested in it. They make the dog do what's told. To me that sounds like the easy way out. Maybe I'm wrong
 
#170 ·
Steve, one more. With dogs it's easier, any dog I see I will do what I decide on (sit, keep walking, whatever)
Any dog sets him off so I work on every dog.

What about people? It's random. If I make him sit for every person we will never leave the house. Did you see the block I live on?
 
#171 ·
why not keep going and nothing special approach.

I don't want to sound harsh, but I think we've all gone thru this whole thing with you and the dog months ago, you got mad and left, your back and nothing has changed.

The dog sounds totally confused, your doing this, then doing that, stick to one thing and GET ON HIM, stop placating, confusing and babying him..STICK TO ONE THING, and make it work.

Maybe you should think about sending him off for training/reconditioning because what your doing with him isn't working for you..Just my opinion
 
#174 · (Edited)
I won't send him away.
I got mad at something else, nothing to do with training questions. It was a thread about suicide

We made progress. I'm able to stop reactions if I notice them in time.

I tried sticking to one thing, saw it didn't work after a few weeks or so, try another. How long do I stick with it? I saw many trainers and tried many things.


Why not keep going and nothing special? Because if he already reacted then I'm dragging him away. I'm not mad, don't make a scene, just keep walking but he's yanking me and I'm yanking him. Ugly and violent.

If I look around and notice things in time we are ok. I guess I'd like him to stop reacting whether I'm looking or not.
 
#172 ·
Or lala should be sent away for training. The dog can learn easily enough when he isn't confused and conflicted.
 
#173 ·
By sticking to the one, simple thing you'll get so good at it and he'll be so solid with it, it'll make it easy to do anything else you want afterwards. If there's a lot of people, you may be sitting there for a while. Be patient, consistent, and don't look for any specific time frame.
 
#176 ·
Meaningful corrections are much fairer than a nagging dragging.
Stay with your trainer, and use his methods only, if you don't understand ask questions to him. He sees your dog, we are only assuming here.
 
#186 ·
I'd be more worry about you desensitizing the dog to the prong collar. The longer you prolong this pop-without-effect process the closer you are to that day.

It may be worthwhile having one lesson out in the real world than multiple lessons in the trainer's place. That will also let you know if your trainer is worth her price! :)
 
#181 ·
How long?

If the very first time your dog decides it doesn't like something and puts on a doofus act, you give a strong, no nonsense correction and move on immediately, then likely you're done. It might not change the fact that the dog is uneasy around other dogs, but since he isn't putting on his show, he may actually have enough close encounters with other dogs to find out that they are not all hairy monsters, and he has learned that what he tried doesn't work.

But, we are past that tiny window of opportunity. Every time the dog barks, lunges, sticks his hair up and acts like the Tasmanian Devil and comes away unscathed it is reinforcing this behavior, and it has been months, and it is going to take TIME to recondition him to a different frame of mind.

I think what they are doing is having you correct the dog every time he does this. Personally, if the dog is already going ape, correction or no correction you have failed. Because the correction can be attributed to the situation, people, dogs, children, and not his behavior.

I think you want to really get there before there is a reaction. And if leaving your apartment is that traumatic. Put a cloth muzzle on your dog and get the heck out of there. Don't drag him back in and "calm him down." Use a muzzle and get out of the building. Going backwards is generally increasing his general uneasiness about your ability to protect him. Put a muzzle on before checking your peep hole. And I would then forget about the peep hole. Go out of the building whether there are people or not. Then remove the muzzle and go into the mode where you try to act before he reacts. Before coming back into your building, put the muzzle on again.

It may not be forever.
 
#184 ·
Selzer, exactly!!! If he reacted it's a setback. That's why I go out of my way (peep hole, around corners, looking around) to avoid reactions. If I notice before he does then I can work on them.

I'd do the muzzle but he'd react anyway just won't get a chance to bite. Isn't that a setback?
 
#189 ·
Yes and no. The dog has to pee outside. To get outside, you have to leave your door. If you are taking 30 minutes several times a day just getting out your door and booking it down the steps so your dog can potty, then it is a setback no matter how you manage it. I would think the thing to do is to minimize the set back. With the muzzle, he can't hurt anyone and that is the main thing. You need to get from A to B, and if that means muzzling the dog and then going through whatever he fears most, that's what it means. At least you won't be dwelling on it. Why I said a cloth muzzle, is because a basket muzzle will allow him to bark and growl, and carry on. The cloth muzzle will shut his trap, and his insanity will make it harder on him, I am not saying it will force him to behave, but it will get him out and past the problem with the least amount of hoopla.
 
#191 ·
Hmm. Another question. I'd get a basket muzzle too and would maybe stop worrying about people approaching and talking to us.

Is it a good idea to put a basket muzzle on him and see what he does when people approach or talk or whatever sets him off.

Or will a muzzle make him feel vulnerable and he'd react in situations that he usually wouldn't
 
#194 ·
A basket muzzle is good for aggressive dogs. It allows the dog to breathe while exercising and aggressive dogs need the exercise. I really don't know if it is a good idea to have people approach a muzzled dog. A reactive dog is on the edge. And it is best in general not to push them over the precipice. I am sure some dogs, by flooding them when they can't bite, only snarl and bark, might get the reaction that you want. But I think it is just as likely to go the other way, and have the dog that much farther out of his mind with terror. I don't really like flooding.

Also a dog with a large basket muzzle is viewed as aggressive. It will change people's smell. They will be fearful of the dog as they are approaching which will play into the dog's fear.

The muzzle in the hall is small, black, and you are not trying to engage with your neighbors, you are trying to walk your dog past them to get out of the door, so he can do his business.
 
#199 ·
I just saw this. Yeah, that's my worry. My friend's dog wears a muzzle though and people are not scared at all lol. She had a trainer at petco hassle them while the dog growled through the muzzle. I think people relax thinking the dog can't do much.

I will think some more on this. We also have dogs in the building.

Also, the muzzle I'm buying is black. Leather black basket muzzle. Not easily seen.

I don't think he'd bite. But I'm sure all owners whose dogs bite didn't think they would.
 
#204 ·
I understand that keeping him under threshold is the goal. The reason I was thinking about a muzzle is because now if anyone walks towards us with the intention to talk or makes a comment about him I tense up a bit and start acting unnatural. I reach down and cover his mouth, hold the leash closer and so on.

Maybe he wasn't going to react half of the time but I'm not taking a chance with people And kids. With dogs I can but not with people.

I'm almost sure he won't bite meaning I'd be able to stop him in time but first, I don't want to scare anyone. And second, any reaction is a setback.

So in was hoping to have the muzzle on him that way I can just sit there and see what he does. So I can see what exactly sets him off.


It's nit easy to find a good trainer. I haven't had luck. The one I have now is a top sport competitor so I can at least be sure he knows what he's doing. But it hasn't worked out well because I can't get there often enough and he doesn't react over there.


I'm going to a club this Sunday, there's lots of dogs there and people that know what they're doing. I'm hoping I will get some answers.

For now, I'm doing what the trainer told me. Pop if I missed the reaction. But my goal is to prevent them.

Also, if I'm able to prevent it then I praise and treat
 
#207 ·
Actually, I just watched it and it's not that bad. If I had a leash on him a pop would've stopped it.

Maybe I'm not popping in the right direction. Sometimee he ends up on his back feet and I'm yanking him, just looks bad. People are looking on in horror.

. Anyway, we are doing ok so far. I will see how tonight goes.
 
#209 ·
Lol I know he's way faster than me. I mean he's on leash and I can pull him off. And He hasn't bitten yet. So I do feel pretty safe.

But I know a dog can bite at any point in their life. If I thought he can't do damage I wouldn't worry about it this much.

If I had a reactive Chihuahua I wouldn't be on the forums asking About aggression. I know he can do lots of damage or even kill before I can do anything.
 
#210 ·
Has a trainer walked this dog in public, with you out of the picture or following behind?

If so, how did the dog respond to situations that would normally cause a reaction?

David Winners
 
#212 ·
I just think you may have a picture in your head about how the dog is going to act, and everything about you is driving the dog to that reaction.

I may be totally off the mark, but it definitely happens.

David Winners
 
#216 ·
Lala, there are so many times when the trainer will know (and not necessarily say) that the problem is not with the dog but the handler. It would not be uncommon if this were the case.

LOL, when I was getting my first RNs, I had a nearly perfect run with both my bitches, and when I looked at the score, one had a 90 and the other an 89. I was rocked. I asked the judge. She said, the dogs were great, I love your dogs. I want to get them a new handler. Welcome to showing in the AKC! But really, I had made the mistake. In real life -- life outside the ring, we often are the problem more so than our dog.

That's not the problem. The problem is not knowing that we are the problem. If we know that we are the problem, then we can change our approach, we can try something different. We can work at our end of the story, and help our dog build its trust in us.

I am not saying you are the problem. I am saying you may be. This does not mean you have to get rid of the dog. It means that continuing to do what you are doing is only going to make things worse. And correcting the dog when we are at fault, will not improve the dog's confidence or trust in us.

So, it is good to know. If the trainer can take the dog down the street and the dog doesn't react, then you need to work on what it is that you are communicating to the dog that the trainer is not.

Shooting the messenger won't help in any way.
 
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