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Old 07-04-2014, 08:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Heading for trouble?

D is almost 8 months old, feeling his oats and is becoming more and more predatory towards our old small breed female dog. He will not let his eyes off her and controls her every move and herds her into her crate if I would let him. She is not able to stand up against him so I manage him.
clicker and treats will not distract him from his obsession, so he basically is on the prong in her presence. It doesn't seem to make much of an impact regarding his drive towards her. She is getting more and more afraid of him.
He gets plenty exercise,training and play time. It is almost like he doesn't care about anything but bullying her. He is also starting to display this same behavior towards dogs he played nice with at first. I certainly hope it is not the result of his rabies vaccination two months ago. I went through this misery with another dog several years ago.
It feels like I have used all my training tricks and tools. I need more ideas and help to make this work.
If you dealt with this, how did you solve it?
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm working on what I'll call prey drive with both my GSD 's and Batman(husky/greyhound). His movement drives them nuts and they tend to gang up on him, he doesn't know when to quit either. I think he annoys them on purpose. It's a slow process, so far I have him trained him to get his butt by me when they start, they back off immediately. Lots of leave its and time outs here. Midnite also thinks he needs to protect the younger golden. I stop him immediately when he plays boss and puts his nose where it doesn't belong.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I might have had similar issues with my guy, if I'd let him have free access to our senior AmBull and our cat. In my case, I had to make sure my puppy didn't corner my vicious cat (she'd take an eye out just for fun) or harass the dog with bad hips.

I was teaching "Leave it" from day 1, by redirecting him away from them, as a baby puppy. Constant body blocking and redirecting...for months, lol. I'm not sure how much interaction you've given your dogs since you brought your pup home, but mine was quite limited.

I'm not saying that the prong isn't a great tool, but maybe it isn't a good enough deterrent in this case? It's one thing to mark inappropriate behavior with a pop, but if the consequences don't outweigh the sheer enjoyment of the behavior (herding and bullying) then it might be devaluing it, and I'd be looking for more substantial corrections. I did give my pup a few scruffs when he thought he could blow off "Leave it" and he was also crated at the same time, so he soon equated harassment with unpleasantness. The prong would probably have amped him up, I'm guessing.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I was teaching "Leave it" from day 1, by redirecting him away from them, as a baby puppy. Constant body blocking and redirecting...for months, lol. I'm not sure how much interaction you've given your dogs since you brought your pup home, but mine was quite limited.

I'm not saying that the prong isn't a great tool, but maybe it isn't a good enough deterrent in this case? It's one thing to mark inappropriate behavior with a pop, but if the consequences don't outweigh the sheer enjoyment of the behavior (herding and bullying) then it might be devaluing it, and I'd be looking for more substantial corrections. I did give my pup a few scruffs when he thought he could blow off "Leave it" and he was also crated at the same time, so he soon equated harassment with unpleasantness. The prong would probably have amped him up, I'm guessing.[/QUOTE]

This is how I'm dealing with it also. Della is almost 4 months, she's used to playing with Tess, and cannot be allowed the same type of access to the Yorkie. She knows my reaction is going to be immediate but she still tries. So they are never alone together.
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yesterday was a bad day in which D threw in the towel on all fronts. Finally after working all day with him, corrections for the wrong and rewards for good behavior, on leash/prong all day, today he feels mellow and ignore the other dog and seems to remember all his previous lessons. But of course he is on leash and will remain so for a few days. In the meantime I am planning on winning the battle with this boy. Never had a dog like this with whom I had throw out my principles of just positive training methods. I have removed all his toys so for fun he is depended on me. I know time flies but now I wish it went with rocket speed to get him to adulthood.
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I feel the same way about Skadi.
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowingtoadfly View Post
I feel the same way about Skadi.
Good to know that I am not just turning crazy and incapable. It is really hard to admit to feel stuck, especially as a pet dog trainer myself. But then I have to realize that D is not just the average pet dog and requires more than that.
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I was so frustrated and dissapointed too! I did so much research, etc. It was difficult to admit that we had hit a wall.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
Never had a dog like this with whom I had throw out my principles of just positive training methods.
Yeah, there's never a dull moment with a GSD in the house - your pup's awesome, he's turned you on your head!

Last edited by Blanketback; 07-06-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
Good to know that I am not just turning crazy and incapable. It is really hard to admit to feel stuck, especially as a pet dog trainer myself. But then I have to realize that D is not just the average pet dog and requires more than that.
I went thru the same ordeal with Sting. He didn't want the treat. He blew off corrections. He was after the cat. I agree with the posts and did the same with the leash work and so on. But it also takes a lot of training. Lucky for me I was reading a mystery book that features dogs by Charles Lee Kelley who is also a natural dog trainer. That lead me to Kevin Behan who is the founder of natural dog training. This is his website which explains it About Natural Dog Training | Natural Dog Training and he also wrote a book "Natural Dog Training: Working from the Dog's point of view". What I learned was that the prey drive is what motivates the dog and this training method uses that prey drive to train. So instead of trying to reduce the drive which didn't work, I had to find a way to satisfy it. By doing that, Sting associated me with satisfying his drive which increased the bonding and he became obedient. There are training exercises that do that. The main one is tug - the difference is that the dog always ends up winning after a struggle. And is praised for winning. I use tug as a reward after the obedience work and still do. I do tug as a hunting game. I use 2 tugs on ropes - he waits on the down/stay. When I give the okay - I scoot one tug on the ground - he charges for it - I tug, drop grab the other one and so on until, I give up - slunk my shoulders and walk away he won - then I turn and praise him -he brings the tugs. He gets a treat and again praise for giving me the tugs. This training method really helped me to train Sting .
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