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Heading for trouble?

6K views 26 replies 12 participants last post by  bruiser 
#1 ·
D is almost 8 months old, feeling his oats and is becoming more and more predatory towards our old small breed female dog. He will not let his eyes off her and controls her every move and herds her into her crate if I would let him. She is not able to stand up against him so I manage him.
clicker and treats will not distract him from his obsession, so he basically is on the prong in her presence. It doesn't seem to make much of an impact regarding his drive towards her. She is getting more and more afraid of him.
He gets plenty exercise,training and play time. It is almost like he doesn't care about anything but bullying her. He is also starting to display this same behavior towards dogs he played nice with at first. I certainly hope it is not the result of his rabies vaccination two months ago. I went through this misery with another dog several years ago.
It feels like I have used all my training tricks and tools. I need more ideas and help to make this work.
If you dealt with this, how did you solve it?
 
#2 · (Edited)
I'm working on what I'll call prey drive with both my GSD 's and Batman(husky/greyhound). His movement drives them nuts and they tend to gang up on him, he doesn't know when to quit either. I think he annoys them on purpose. It's a slow process, so far I have him trained him to get his butt by me when they start, they back off immediately. Lots of leave its and time outs here. Midnite also thinks he needs to protect the younger golden. I stop him immediately when he plays boss and puts his nose where it doesn't belong.
 
#3 ·
I might have had similar issues with my guy, if I'd let him have free access to our senior AmBull and our cat. In my case, I had to make sure my puppy didn't corner my vicious cat (she'd take an eye out just for fun) or harass the dog with bad hips.

I was teaching "Leave it" from day 1, by redirecting him away from them, as a baby puppy. Constant body blocking and redirecting...for months, lol. I'm not sure how much interaction you've given your dogs since you brought your pup home, but mine was quite limited.

I'm not saying that the prong isn't a great tool, but maybe it isn't a good enough deterrent in this case? It's one thing to mark inappropriate behavior with a pop, but if the consequences don't outweigh the sheer enjoyment of the behavior (herding and bullying) then it might be devaluing it, and I'd be looking for more substantial corrections. I did give my pup a few scruffs when he thought he could blow off "Leave it" and he was also crated at the same time, so he soon equated harassment with unpleasantness. The prong would probably have amped him up, I'm guessing.
 
#4 ·
I was teaching "Leave it" from day 1, by redirecting him away from them, as a baby puppy. Constant body blocking and redirecting...for months, lol. I'm not sure how much interaction you've given your dogs since you brought your pup home, but mine was quite limited.

I'm not saying that the prong isn't a great tool, but maybe it isn't a good enough deterrent in this case? It's one thing to mark inappropriate behavior with a pop, but if the consequences don't outweigh the sheer enjoyment of the behavior (herding and bullying) then it might be devaluing it, and I'd be looking for more substantial corrections. I did give my pup a few scruffs when he thought he could blow off "Leave it" and he was also crated at the same time, so he soon equated harassment with unpleasantness. The prong would probably have amped him up, I'm guessing.[/QUOTE]

This is how I'm dealing with it also. Della is almost 4 months, she's used to playing with Tess, and cannot be allowed the same type of access to the Yorkie. She knows my reaction is going to be immediate but she still tries. So they are never alone together.
 
#5 ·
Yesterday was a bad day in which D threw in the towel on all fronts. Finally after working all day with him, corrections for the wrong and rewards for good behavior, on leash/prong all day, today he feels mellow and ignore the other dog and seems to remember all his previous lessons. But of course he is on leash and will remain so for a few days. In the meantime I am planning on winning the battle with this boy. Never had a dog like this with whom I had throw out my principles of just positive training methods. I have removed all his toys so for fun he is depended on me. I know time flies but now I wish it went with rocket speed to get him to adulthood.
 
#7 ·
Good to know that I am not just turning crazy and incapable. It is really hard to admit to feel stuck, especially as a pet dog trainer myself. But then I have to realize that D is not just the average pet dog and requires more than that.
 
#11 ·
I've a 9lb dog. The GSD once passed the 6 months age started to aggress more and more towards the little one during play. The GSD started to develop a big head that I had to eventually pop a few times. Basically, I corrected the dog severely, made it do a long down stay, ignored the dog for a good part of that day. After that, every time she started to get too excited with the little dog, I'd intercept with a word and she'd get the message to tone it down or walk away. Eventually, she stopped it all together on her own, will play mostly laying down with the dog or on her back nowadays. When I have fosters here, those that matches her play level or size they will go all out. She's learned to differentiate.

I'm reading a book by John Rogerson, a dog behaviorist. He said that dogs that aggress towards other dogs most likely have another dog at home that it practice that with first.
 
#12 ·
Update: it is 5 days later. I had him on the prong inside and outside and just kept him from making contact with the old dog by working / playing with him, focusing on me, NILIF, etc. Since yesterday he is off the prong several times a day and leaves her alone, which I reward with treats once in a while. He does look at her. Then the old dog has noticed that he is limited now so the diva comes over to him and checks things out. One time she stood over his leash!!! So I send her to her crate as well. Things have calmed down nicely and it feels like I have won this part. But I know there is more to come with this boy. I could not have done this without the prong. This dog is teaching me big time and I think I can help people better as a result.
 
#17 ·
I am on vacation this week and reintroducing all the dogs and cats. I took the gate down and we all wander upstairs a few times a day. Sometimes it's just to go and make a presence so the cats get used to the dogs just coming and going. I found tonite that once Midnite was able to sniff the cats butt he kinda just walked away, which surprised me. If the cats stay still we are good. Once they move, hiss, or swat I have to intervene. Most of the dogs can walk past the cats without any problems, the golden puppy thinks he can play with everything.
 
#18 ·
MaryBeth, that just makes so much sense to me (your description of the fake fight over the deer carcass). I'm sure that I can find at least one or two things Rudy the Rude could learn from that exercise ...thanks, I learned something valuable from this whole discussion...every post was enlightening. When adolescent dogs and pre-teen kids act up in this home, they're usually in NILIF, but when you add in a game too, they could learn a lot more from it. Kinda like when I'm coaching basketball, I make em go harder at each other when I'm aggravated with them...within the game.
 
#25 ·
:thumbup: Excellent point! My vet told me also that this game is also good for the human. I find it to be an great stress reliever and good exercise. Interesting that the harder I play the game, the more Sting enjoy it.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I played that game this morning. He immediately outsmarted me by getting hold of both; lesson one.
I didn't get a chance to fix these tug toys with a piece of rope but I am going to. His intensity was high and there were a few close calls regarding hitting my hands; lesson two.
Also make sure you have equally interesting toys as he taught me that it is easier to let the second choice toy go than the first choice; lesson three. hen I walked over with a treat he willing let go of the toys. Good boy, D!
I think I played it about 10 minutes and he is toast. I loved this game; lots of thinking, interaction and plain fun for both of us. But watch those teeth!
 
#21 ·
I have a high drive Lacy (2 years old now). I call him my crack puppy. When he is focused on something, he is intense.

I have an older (rescue) Mini Dachshund. She rarely plays. She likes to be a total 100% lap dog.

My Lacy has a fixation on the Doxie. It's her reaction that has him hooked. When she tries to correct him for being pushy, she squeals. He simply can't get enough of her. He is pushy 24/7 with her. Even when they pass eachother through the doorway (him out / her in or visa versa) he fixates on her and forgets what he was doing.

I have to manage them every moment of the day. He doesn't hurt her -nor is he aggressive towards her, he just pokes and prods and lays on her. He wants her to squeal.

What I'm doing now, it re-directing him when it comes to the doxie. I set aside a specific amount of time every day to work on this. I 'm curious if I can teach him not to fixate on her. During this time I'll have her on my lap (so I can control him and that is where she wants to be anyway). When he focuses on her and I tell him to "leave it" and then I say "Bring it!". I want him to bring me a toy. I'll play fetch with him with one hand, while I protect her with the other.

I've been doing this for less than a month now. We started where he couldn't focus on my command long enough to actually bring me a toy. Now when I have them together and put her on my lap, he brings a toy. He will leave long enough to fetch it and bring it back. He still trys to shove the toy down her throat when he returns, but we are working on that step now.

This might sound like a silly thing to do - take so long to teach something. But if you could see how difficult it is for him to break that over the top fixation he has long enough to fetch the toy - I am very proud of where he is at now. And it has increased his drive in playing fetch. I now use the same toy as a reward in Agility, where before it was treats.
 
#23 ·
OP, I've an elderly tabby cat here and a 2 year old intact GSD who spent the ENTIRE first year of his life obsessed with the cat to the point of driving us all up the walls. Fast forward a year and neither he or the cat have any real interest in each other. I found that concentrating on Archer's love of games while the cat was present was really helpful, he'd ditch bothering that cat in a second for a game. It also helped that our cat is a smart little bugger and never ran when he was charged- which frankly, citing size disparity - is really brave of him.
Either way, with training and controlled exposure your dog and smaller dog will find a way to co-exist in harmony, I'm sure of it. Check out photo I took recently of cat strolling under Archer's belly as evidence :)
 

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#26 ·
Update: after playing these games several times, he is a changed dog!! He fetches reliably, not trying to outsmart me anymore and biddable. This is the dog I wanted to see. Thanks for all the tips! But I am keeping in mind that he still has to go a long way towards adulthood. But at least I am having fun with him now!
 
#27 ·
My GSD tries to bully my old black lab, he is very jealous and possessive. I have to be swift and vigilant when he attempts this behavior. If my lab is on the bed or couch with me and he tries to flea bite squeeze in, he is immediately made to lay on the floor next to the couch or bed. I don't allow that behavior at all between them. My lab is about 14 yrs old and now has a degenerative eye illness and arthritis (just like me:(). She deserves to live out her senior yrs without being bullied.

The good thing about bruiser (GSD) is he is also very protective and pack oriented and would never let anything happen to my lab stella. He actually adores her. I love them both with all my heart:wub:
 
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