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Old 07-02-2014, 12:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Handler aggression

Hello all. I am hoping to get advice from someone familiar with this type of situation dealing with this type of dog. A little background story regarding my dog to show how much of a handful he can be. His grandfathers/uncles have competed in the highest levels of Schutzhund, some are working for police departments, and one is currently a prison dog down in the south.

At 9 months old, I got him neutered. When my vet was administering drugs to put him to sleep for the procedure, he would NOT go down. He gave him so many doses that wouldn't work, he actually resorted to having to use entirely different drugs, that are used for large zoo animals like lions. Not even an hour after this surgery, he was just making his way around my house like his normal self, as if nothing had happened. I actually had to crate him because I was concerned he'd over do himself.

Fast forward to today, and he's just turned two. Lovely dog, but I'm stumped on this problem I'm running into. He wears a prong collar, and if he gets out of line, or he doesn't do something I ask of him, I give him a firm pop with the prong collar. Firm enough, that most dogs would get the point. Not him, he'll just act like nothing happened, but when I went harder to gain his attention, he exploded.

He lunged up the end of the leash towards me, and I actually had to dodge out of the way, and he came at me again, and missed again. I managed to grab him by the neck and grab a hold of the leash with my other hand and contain him for a minute. Not even a minute after all of this, everything was fine. He was licking me and being his lovey dovey self like nothing happened. People have actually joked, that you could hit this dog over the head as hard as you could with a 2x4, then throw it and he'll still go run to grab it and bring it back to you. (Not that I EVER would, by the way, just a figure of speech.)

I don't wanna sweep this problem under the rug so to speak, but I'm "choosing my battles" if you will.

I know this sounds crazy, but I've heard of several cops owning dogs exactly like this. Just hoping someone here has had a similar experience.
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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My first and probably correct guess is that you've unfairly corrected him multiple times and he's had enough
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It does sound like a strong dog responding to an unfair correction.

Some dogs will take whatever you give them, and some will not. I suggest getting into training with someone who truly knows strong working dog mentality, and change not so much your correction but your leadership style, so that there isn't any confusion.
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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First off, how your dog responded to anesthetics should not be confused with your dog being a hard dog that is pain intolerant or a dog that needs extra strong correction : )

What did your dog do to "get out of line" prior to the correction you gave him that led to him coming up the leash at you? Was it a "fair" correction, i.e. did the dog really understand what the desired for behavior was? I suspect there might have been some confusion there.

Without any additional info, I think you need to get a second pair of eyes on the situation, i.e. have a trainer come out to observe you and your dog.

Also, if I were you, I would PM David Winners on this forum and ask to speak with him.
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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First off, how your dog responded to anesthetics should not be confused with your dog being a hard dog that is pain intolerant or a dog that needs extra strong correction
this
i am guessing they gave your dog ace and many dogs do not respond to it
they may have switched to something different but just because 'they use it in zoos' does not make it stronger
they do meter the dose to fit the situation

i am with the others here
unfair correction or at least unclear to your dog why it was being corrected

you may have missed some of the basics and that is why your dog is confused and reacting the way he is
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:28 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Lol since when does the dog get to decide what correction is fair or unfair. I would say drop the prong and go to the dominant dog collar on leerburg or an E Collar.

I would also train just about everything positively and go out of my way to minimize opportunities for misbehavior through management.

Some dogs respond well to a come to Jesus moment and some keep coming at you until they are dead.
There is a dog I know of that was worked on 2-3 lines in an attempt to achieve compliance as he would turn on his handler if pushed. He was hung numerous times and everytime he woke up from never never land he would again attack his handler. In the end he was kenneled and used for breeding.
Personally I would have tried a more positive approach first but thats just me..
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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if a dog is confused then yes it can happen
you dont continue to reef away at the dog without making sure the dog actually understands what is being corrected for
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg1 View Post
Lol since when does the dog get to decide what correction is fair or unfair. I would say drop the prong and go to the dominant dog collar on leerburg or an E Collar.

I would also train just about everything positively and go out of my way to minimize opportunities for misbehavior through management.

Some dogs respond well to a come to Jesus moment and some keep coming at you until they are dead.
There is a dog I know of that was worked on 2-3 lines in an attempt to achieve compliance as he would turn on his handler if pushed. He was hung numerous times and everytime he woke up from never never land he would again attack his handler. In the end he was kenneled and used for breeding.
Personally I would have tried a more positive approach first but thats just me..
I've heard stories like that. A guy I know that is a retired K9 handler said he had to do that to his dog before. But yeah, I was thinking about that dominant dog collar from leerburg. Just read about it recently, and it sounds ideal for the dogs that get aggressive. I actually bought an E-collar from there recently, and the "Remote Collar Training for Pet Owners" by Ed Frawley. Haven't used the collar yet,but I have been studying the DVD to be careful with it.
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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What happened was was this:

He grabbed something he knew he was not supposed to and did not out on command, which he will do normally when told. I told him out to give him a chance to drop it, and he did not comply. And that's when the first pop with the prong collar came in.
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Why not work with your dog instead of against him? I know it's not cool to suggest anything other than overpowering, but your brain and your relationship with your dog are the two most important training tools. clicky click--> Suzanne Clothier | Relationship Centered Dog Training
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