We have had our female german shepherd for 5 years, named bella. She is well trained in the usual commands, and even goes to the bathroom where we want in her kennel. She has always been an indoor dog, except for exercise or if we're away for hours we leave her in our fenced in yard. In terms of her personality she often does not want to be touched or petted except by my wife. My wife spent most of the time with her the first couple years we had her, and bella is her baby. Bella in general does not want to have much to do with me or my daughter, she just prefers to not be bothered.
The other day, Bella was sitting on the ground and Abby put her face close to Bella's face, saying she loved her. Bella then proceeded to bite Abby on the nose, causing a large cut, a puncture, internal bleeding and bruising. Bella had never bit anyone before, but Abby did know that she shouldn't be in Bella's face.
At this point, since Bella bit our daughter after being in our family 5 years, I think we have to have her put down. She is so anxious and skittish as it is, and I would not trust her in being around other people or kids. We don't have any behavioral specialists near our small town, even if we did have the time and ability to put in multiple hours trying to cure her anxieties. This is obviously a very difficult decision, especially for my wife. Not sure what I'm looking for in posting this....but feel free to respond with any thoughts.
this is wrong -- even in the von Stephanitz book there is a special attention drawn to the GSD being a lover of children, tolerant of the young -- I can pull the page and quote -- but not today
well duh its wrong
but so are thousands of dogs today
i saw it mentioned eariler in this thread
what the dog should be vs what the dog is
platitudes about what this breed ought to be
have little bearing on this discussion
if all dogs were like they are supposed to be
there would not be bitings and even killings by dogs
including gsds
eta platitudes about what she should be
do have bearing i suppose if you are talking about wiping
badly bred gsds from
the face of the earth
dogs that dont live up to the standard of
being a jungle gym for kids i guess
this is wrong -- even in the von Stephanitz book there is a special attention drawn to the GSD being a lover of children, tolerant of the young -- I can pull the page and quote -- but not today
well duh its wrong
but so are thousands of dogs today
i saw it mentioned eariler in this thread
what the dog should be vs what the dog is
platitudes about what this breed ought to be
have little bearing on this discussion
if all dogs were like they are supposed to be
there would not be bitings and even killings by dogs
including gsds
But a dog that bites it's own family member is a serious issue. You mentioned it was 'good breeding'. How do you know this? If it were truly good breeding, as carmspack said also, the dog would be true to most of the standard-- which indicates an affinity for children.
i didnt say the ops dog
has good breeding
what i was saying is
for those crowing about how
my dog lets children crawl all over it
read the site
your dog is a good dog with good breeding
or at least not genetically flawed breedings
but you are still asking for it
dogs who have bitten kids all start out like that
the dogs who let kids crawl all over are from
good or better breeding than the ops
but still dogs will surprise you
the only saving grace in that case
is learning dog body language and removing it
if it becomes stressed and uncomfortable with the kids
on its back
eta nice pics shepherdmom
but those dogs are differently tempered
and not to mention have an escape
where this dog was cornered when the kid leaned over
yes all dogs should be able to tolerate a kid loving on it
but the plain fact is obviously some cannot
last year a mastiff killed a toddler that had formerly
climbed all over it
one day it had enough and seeings as how no adults
stepped in to take said child off its back or head
the dog bit and killed the child
i didnt say the ops dog
has good breeding
what i was saying is
for those crowing about how
my dog lets children crawl all over it
read the site
your dog is a good dog with good breeding
or at least not genetically flawed breedings
but you are still asking for it
dogs who have bitten kids all start out like that
Where did you get this information? How do you know this is a 'good dog with good breeding'?
the dogs who let kids crawl all over are from
good or better breeding than the ops
but still dogs will surprise you
the only saving grace in that case
is learning dog body language and removing it
if it becomes stressed and uncomfortable with the kids
on its back
Well apparently I set my dogs up to fail.... But you know what. They didn't. This is what I expect out of a dog with kids. Anything less is unacceptable.
]
I get where you are coming from, but posting these pics and declaring that this is normal just sets up OTHER dogs to fail. There are too many nervy, unpredictable, un-safe dogs out there, and too many people with unreasonable expectations of what a dog should put up with. They read that GSDs are good with kids, see pics like this with comments about how this is the expectations people should have of their dogs, and end up with a child that has been mauled.
How we deal with our own dogs is our business, but we have to be responsible in what information we give out there for everyone to follow.
I disagree. I think any dog that is not that safe around children should be removed from the gene pool. The problem is that we are breeding these nervy, unpredictable, un-safe dogs rather than destroying them as we should be doing. That is no way for a dog to live and it is unfair to expect average pet owner to try and manage that.
OP - Is your dog currently being treated for any inflammation via steroids, or anti-inflammatories for hip dysplasia...is she on any Hw, flea, tick prevention - spot-on or oral? Did she receive a recent (within past month) rabies vaccine, do you vax. annually?
Our female did get moody when on oral steroids...we just gave her the space she needed for the 10 days she was on the steroids. I had fully anticipated the moodiness since our teen has asthma and has been on steroids in the past....boy....kids and dogs....should have mood stabilizers when on steroids.
Do all of these medications have input on moods..?
I think it is tricky to take advice over the internet when it comes down to the life of the dog. In this case why don't you take her to a veterinary behaviorist? Then make the decision on what to do. At least you know then that you have tried everything.
But in the case of the stove, you would expect to be burned. I would not expect to be bitten by my dog, even if I did something dumb.
The daughter is partially at fault, sure, but that doesn't mean there isn't a very serious problem with the dog that needs to be addressed in some manner.
I hope the OP will seek to a good behaviourist, before making any rash decisions and if the dog is on any meds, see if that is possibly contributing to the problem? Some meds have some strange side effects like aggression.
If you were told the stove was hot, would you still touch it to see if it was hot?
The daughter was told to stay out of the dogs face (in fear of being bitten) the daughter chose to test the water.
No ones fault, just a terrible accident and it should of never happened. I know my dog bites, when people are around, I don't let her out of arms reach.
thank you rocket dog "If it were truly good breeding, as carmspack said also, the dog would be true to most of the standard-- which indicates an affinity for children"
In some cases dogs get out of hand , have no discipline , landshark because the are teething (all fodder for the early socialization thread) --- not raised properly -- and have problems because they have had a permissive , dog-centric house hold.
In some cases no matter what you do , the basic temperament of the dog fails to be workable , at some point there is the breaking point and you don't know when.
I truly believe the OP when he says that the dog was in a "loving" home and was trained . All his posts and responses have been very level and rational in spite of the enormous stress he is under. Ultimately he and his council , of vet and behaviourists (if he chooses that route) will have to make the decision.
Even at best the dog living out a natural life may have another 5 years . Quality ? or Quantity ? has to be considered for the dogs sake .
The young girl , at 13, could live another 80 , god willing . She should not be crucified with guilt for being spontaneous and loving toward her dog .
the take away from this should be
learn to read dog body language and
stop treating dogs like humans
dogs greet and interact with each other directly opposite of how humans do
what humans find wonderful loving and kind
dogs are often uncomfortable with that same behavior such as face to face greetings
dogs sniff each others butts to greet each other; people shake each others hands; and people cant figure out why dogs are uncomfortable when we stick their faces into theirs?
Considering that the majority of dogs bites are inflicted on children, by dogs known to them - can we please have these pictures removed? The dogs might pay a price with their lives, and the children could be disfigured for life. Why are we encouraging this when we know better? And if we don't know better, why aren't we off googling 'hugging dogs bite prevention' instead of saying that this is what we expect to be able to do to all our dogs, all the time? Cripes.
I would never stick my face into the face of a dog I did not know. This dog was stand offish so they should not have interacted that way with it BUT my dog comes up to my face and licks my nose. I close my eyes and rest my forehead on his and it is just his normal greeting. A household pet should be tolerable of the family members if is normal and well adjusted. And to people inferring that a 13 year old is an adult...do you have kids? They are still kids and kids are kids. They make mistakes and it is sad that this kid has a dog that is not loving or playful. Even knowing the dog has some fear issues I'm sure they never expected to be bitten by their long time pet. I love the pics posted of the kids rolling with dogs. This is how kids in homes with loving dogs interact. It is just sad. In a home with no children this dog may be fine but who knows.
the dog needed better management . when you live with a certain condition the family tends to accept it as new normal -- things are taken for granted -- the situation has not "snapped" yet , in this case it did .
is there hypocrisy then when a dog is rescued from shelter , in a home for one week , and pictures are posted with very close , head to head pictures. Luckily this dog is stable and tolerant . But still this is an ADULT who should KNOW BETTER , especially with a dog that they do not know (yet). Didn't see any "oh you shouldn't be doing that posts" there , just the opposite , some probably envious because their dog is not a cuddler.
again with the "no dog should"
of course no dog should but the blatant fact is that some dogs do
the family knew this dog to be a potential bite risk
perhaps they aren't saying as much but perhaps they saw a lip curl or something
the child is 13; the dog is 5
they got the dog when the child was 8 years old
and have told her repeatedly to stay out of the dogs face
what other conclusion can one draw except that this was not a totally unexpected occurrence?
rather the owner seems almost resigned as in "it finally happened"
Exactly and the fact of the matter is most children are bitten by their OWN family dogs. So what's absurd is expecting dogs to be 100% bomb proof around children 100% of the time.
And yes, the OP did write and I'll dig it up his daughter was warned.
again with the "no dog should"
of course no dog should but the blatant fact is that some dogs do
the family knew this dog to be a potential bite risk
perhaps they aren't saying as much but perhaps they saw a lip curl or something
the child is 13; the dog is 5
they got the dog when the child was 8 years old and have told her repeatedly to stay out of the dogs face what other conclusion can one draw except that this was not a totally unexpected occurrence?
rather the owner seems almost resigned as in "it finally happened"
We have had our female german shepherd for 5 years, named bella. She is well trained in the usual commands, and even goes to the bathroom where we want in her kennel. She has always been an indoor dog, except for exercise or if we're away for hours we leave her in our fenced in yard. In terms of her personality she often does not want to be touched or petted except by my wife. My wife spent most of the time with her the first couple years we had her, and bella is her baby. Bella in general does not want to have much to do with me or my daughter, she just prefers to not be bothered.
The other day, Bella was sitting on the ground and Abby put her face close to Bella's face, saying she loved her. Bella then proceeded to bite Abby on the nose, causing a large cut, a puncture, internal bleeding and bruising. Bella had never bit anyone before, but Abby did know that she shouldn't be in Bella's face.
At this point, since Bella bit our daughter after being in our family 5 years, I think we have to have her put down. She is so anxious and skittish as it is, and I would not trust her in being around other people or kids. We don't have any behavioral specialists near our small town, even if we did have the time and ability to put in multiple hours trying to cure her anxieties. This is obviously a very difficult decision, especially for my wife. Not sure what I'm looking for in posting this....but feel free to respond with any thoughts.
So the average family wants a family pet to love and take care of, to hang around with and have fun. They would like it if their dog did not bite anyone, especially any family member.
Well not so fast average family. Your dog may have temperament issues or health issues. So before you rush out and pick up that cute little puppy or rescue that dog, or save one from animal control be prepared.
Make certain all family members understand your dogs frustrations and health problems. Do not invade your dogs space. If your dog is unhappy with something stop what you are doing. Teach children not to go near the dog for fear of upsetting said animal and causing the dog to feel a bite is necessary.
Don't allow friends or neighbors to stare at or encroach on your dogs space. Do not pet, especially with hand on head.
If neighbors, friends an relatives won't comply, dump them. You have a dog to care for.
If precautions fail anyway, then you need help. Be sure to retain an emergency vet, a chiropractor, acupuncturist, a trainer, behaviorist, and an attorney.
It helps to also have fifty thousand dollars or so in a bank account to cover any health issues and to pay the above people as needed.
Now get on out there an get that puppy/dog and have yourself a good time.
Oh you might have to quit your job to stay home and "watch" the interaction with your children. That way your dog won't be set up to fail.
I think Carmen is onto something with the "new normal" comment. I know in my grandfather's day, any dog that bit was promptly disposed of. But he was a farmer and his dogs worked. To have a dog that was unstable wasn't a consideration. But these days, with so many dogs cooped up in the house and without any outlet, are we helping to create instability? Is it possible that they're living very frustrated lives?
My mom was bit by the neighbor's farm dog and they didn't put the dog down. This was 1940s and the dog was guarding milk cans (mom was a farm girl too and was helping the neighbors when she was bit).
I recall dogs in our neighborhood that were warned to stay away from.
A good friend of mine was bitten as a child by her neighbor's GSD when she was over playing with their daughter. The dog owners paid all the medical bills but did not put the dog down.
Now if the dog went after livestock, different story.
IMHO we had friendly dogs, guarding dogs, nervy 'scaredy' dogs and so on going back in time.....
I don't have any input on the situation except that its sad for the family and the dog.
Unfortunately, even if some dogs "shouldn't" be in existence, they are. Treating them as if they were a different dog, with a different personality, is setting them up for failure.
A dog that I had to "watch my every move" around would not be a good fit for most people. I don't think that's what this dog is. She reacted to something that many dogs might see as an aggressive move towards the face. Many dogs do and are expected to tolerate this, but not every dog can. Whether or not that's an acceptable trait does not matter, because dogs like Bella still exist.
Expecting the dog to be something she isn't is not very fair. That doesn't mean the behavior should be tolerated at all by the family, and it doesn't mean that it's their fault at all. This has to be a really tough position. Overall, I think it's important to understand and respect what your pet is. I don't think its fair to expect GSDs, or dogs in general, to not have different personalities, good or bad.
we are missing much of this puzzle already
how is the dog handled on a daily basis?
does she resource guard, etc are their other warning signs?
jacksdad
you and a few others seem to believe dogs are little people in fur coats
with morals and capacity to think and reason
"oh my this is a family member, i can't bite him or her"
gwen makes extremely valid points that we were taught growing up to be careful around animals
why? BECAUSE THEY ARE ANIMALS
nowadays dogs are family members and people buy little cutesy toys and diapers
and coddle
and for all that the dog "shouldn't" bite us and if it does it is now an evil creature that deserves to die
we are missing much of this puzzle already
how is the dog handled on a daily basis?
does she resource guard, etc are their other warning signs?
jacksdad
you and a few others seem to believe dogs are little people in fur coats
with morals and capacity to think and reason
"oh my this is a family member, i can't bite him or her"
gwen makes extremely valid points that we were taught growing up to be careful around animals
why? BECAUSE THEY ARE ANIMALS
nowadays dogs are family members and people buy little cutesy toys and diapers
and coddle
and for all that the dog "shouldn't" bite us and if it does it is now an evil creature that deserves to die[/QUOTE
100% wrong. Treating dogs like little humans is one of the major factors in what's wrong these days.
What I do believe is dogs have to fit in to family and society. I also believe that unless there are genetic issues, like weak nerves etc....that dogs will pretty much live up to what you expect of them.
In my family there are dos and don'ts and kids and dogs will generally live up to those expectations. However we, kids,dogs adults all make mistakes.
If humans punch someone out they usually pay the consequences. It may not seem fair to you because animals don't reason the way humans do but they still have to fit in or face the consequences.
A forum community dedicated to all German Shepherd owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about bloodlines, training, breeding, service dogs, and more!