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-   -   Aggression (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/411778-aggression.html)

Ares105 02-16-2014 09:55 AM

Aggression
 
Well, Ares was groomed yesterday and of course acted out of control. He gets overly excited and barks at every animal. He loves people but is animal aggressive. When I picked him up they said they had a hard time with him being aggressive towards the other dogs. She said he was pulling them to try to get to other dogs. He didn't bite any of the dogs but I am wondering if the leash makes him feel uneasy because he is at a disadvantage. I don't know what to do and how this can be corrected. He has been through training and knows his commands but I don't want him to be this way. Yes he is fixed and he is 4 years old. He also weighs 105 so he can pull anyone. Can anyone tell me how I can curb this so he is ok when I take him to be groomed. She also told me not to come when they are busy. Mind you that this has never happened to where they have said something to me about it. One time our neighbors dogs came over in our yard and he just sniffed them but thats probably the closest he has been to another dog in a long time. I need help please !!!

DJEtzel 02-16-2014 10:15 AM

Can you work with a trainer?

Your dog is being reactive. He may or may not actually be aggressive. The two do not go hand in hand. I work with dozens of very reactive dogs (on leash - because of the tension due to barrier) and most of them are not actually aggressive once they meet other dogs.

To fix this, it will take time and a lot of management. "Look at that" training is what has worked best for me and my students - you start the dog a good distance from the stimuli (in your case other dogs) to where they are able to function and listen to commands. When they glance in the direction of the dog, you mark and treat. You should be a distance away to where there is no reaction. Every time they look at the other dog, you mark/treat. Clickers are AWESOME to use for this type of training because the noise is a great interrupter to redirect them back to you for the reward.

When the dog is working well for you at that distance, you slowly start reducing the distance. Expect this whole process to take many months- you will need to work far away from calm dogs first, then get closer, and restart at a further distance around more excitable/reactive dogs, because they are going to egg on your dog. If you get too close and your dog starts reacting, back up a step (literally and figuratively) by adding some distance again and asking for simple attention, then marking/treating, following by touches (nose touch to hand) and sits, etc.

Having a trainer help you with this is a great idea because they can help you with your distance and timing most.

Ares105 02-16-2014 10:20 AM

Yes I can work with a trainer. Just have to find one in my area. I did call a place after it happened and waiting on a call back. I don't think he wants to hurt other dogs he just wants to explore. But not everyone sees it that way. Thanks for the info. If we are on a walk and a dog is behind a fence he gets excited but just more less alert and ears go up. He wont bark at them. I thought that doggy daycare would help but nervous he would bite one of them and it would turn out bad. Do you think daycare can help? And yes I agree that the barrier makes him that way. I have heard that before but don't have another dog to work on this with unless we have a trainer that is training other dogs.

sit,stay 02-16-2014 01:55 PM

My guy will be eight years old this year, and I have been working on his reactivity issues off and on through almost his entire life. And he has gotten better. But there are still areas where it comes down to simple management.

One of those areas is grooming. When he was younger I did all his grooming myself. But I am getting older now and bathing him in a tub just kills my poor back. So I started taking him to a professional groomer for a brush out, bath and nail trim/era cleaning.

I spent a month going around to different grooming shops. I physically walked in and spoke with the owner/manager of each one. I knew that Tanner would ignore another dog that was A) contained safely (crated or tethered) and B) not able to intrude on Tanner's personal bubble (which is about 5 feet).

So I looked at shops and how they were laid out. Was there plenty of room between tables? Or were they standing side by side with just enough room in between for the groomer to stand. Were the personal dog's belonging to the groomer(s) running loose in the grooming area? What about in the back area, where dogs waiting to be groomed or picked up are crated or kenneled?

I just kept looking until I found a shop that had plenty of room in the grooming area, did not allow loose dogs to wander anywhere and had a kind of low key vibe. Tanner does very well there, and there have been no problems.

Take the time to find the right shop for your dog. Not every dog does well in those crowded, loud, chaotic shops that have loose dogs under foot. Tanner is very well trained, but even he has his limits.

I agree with the other advice regarding working with a trainer and getting some basic obedience skills established. And then, once you have some control, find the shop that best fits his needs. Shop around and find a good fit!

Good luck!
Sheilah

David Taggart 02-16-2014 03:06 PM

4 years is not the age to think that his brain has benn crystallized already and you cannot train him better social manners. Dog is a predator, and everuthing else in him works in combination with this major character. Dogs are deprived of that ability which seems very simple to us, and that is our human ability to classify, to put things into categories. Instead, they approach things individually. It is impossible that your male likes all people, and hates all dogs. Try to notice and specify particular occasions and circunstance, what people, and what those dogs were like. If he just lunges and barks - it doesn't mean he's agressive, he could be just scared of some unknown dog, or he obeys his simple predatory drive and simply wants some response from possible prey being unable to read that dogr body language due to the lack of experience with them. Many people were telling me that their dog is agressive, but in the end it happened that the reaction was caused by the leash holding them away from the object of interest. Then, if he is truly agressive - he would start to differentuate, say, a smaller ones he would like to hunt, females to supress and big males to destroy. So, in order to answer your question, it could be better to hear about that or other day experience.

Chip18 02-16-2014 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ares105 (Post 5030890)
I thought that doggy daycare would help but nervous he would bite heways that could gone of them and it would turn out bad. Do you think daycare can help? .

No don't dump your problem onto someone else and put other dogs at risk and people at risk!

The ways that could go wrong are too numerous to count!

Having a qualified trainer would be the quickest way to fix the issues but here is something that you can try! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXeSv...?v=hXeSvoeorEI

You can teach him to ignore other dogs, that's a lot easier than trying to turn him into a dog park dog. Some dogs can never get along with other dogs, play days but most can be taught to be civil around other dogs.

It sounds like you did all the basics some dogs that's enough and some dogs still have "issues" that need to be dealt with it happens.

I had a BullMastiff/Pitt mix like that, I had him evaluated by a trainer. He told my dog was a Dominate Male but he was not aggressive...he was just an A Hole! :D

I could deal with that! I taught him to ignore other dogs and that was good enough for me.

There are things you can do yourself (see above) that are safe and do no harm, if you want a bullet proof "dog park" that's a whole other thing! In that case yes you need a pro! Short of that...check out the the link :)

David Taggart 02-16-2014 03:46 PM

Quote:

doggy daycare
Sure, doggy daycare wouldn't mind to accept some dosh from you and just lock your dog away where from he can bark as much as he likes. Please, don't think they would risk their reputation, unless their suggested trainer takes a stick and use a prong not exactly for corrections. But you wouldn't know about it.
Daycare is a good thing, but for puppies under 6 months, and that is only because they were deprived from playing with their sisters and brothers in the first place. Puppy behaviour is different from that of an adult dog. And, if your dog isn't used to stay in kennels - he would be very stressed. being separated from you and his home.
You need a personal trainer, who will train you, not your dog.

Harry and Lola 02-16-2014 04:00 PM

!!
 
My Harry has imo become fear aggressive due to not being diagnosed with EPI quick enough. I am doing B12 generic shots (6 weekly course) and also giving him Wonderlab B12 with intrinsic value, I have noticed he is calmer, not so anxious and not reacting so much, however often with changes in temperament due to illness, these can become learned behaviours so I am working on this as well.

Sometimes with dog aggressive dogs, it just depends on the other dog, there are some dogs that are not stable like ours and our dogs pick up on this and become reactive or other dogs are staring at him and challenging him and because yours is more vocal - he gets the blame. You will find your dog is not dog aggressive around stable dogs.

I would discuss this with your groomer because they also have a role to play here, they need to be in control and calm themselves. Perhaps they could book your GSD in with other stable dogs, that way they will have an easier time (you don't want them to work too hard!) and your GSD will benefit from being around other stable dogs.

Freestep 02-16-2014 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sit,stay (Post 5031762)
I spent a month going around to different grooming shops. I physically walked in and spoke with the owner/manager of each one. I knew that Tanner would ignore another dog that was A) contained safely (crated or tethered) and B) not able to intrude on Tanner's personal bubble (which is about 5 feet).

So I looked at shops and how they were laid out. Was there plenty of room between tables? Or were they standing side by side with just enough room in between for the groomer to stand. Were the personal dog's belonging to the groomer(s) running loose in the grooming area? What about in the back area, where dogs waiting to be groomed or picked up are crated or kenneled?

I just kept looking until I found a shop that had plenty of room in the grooming area, did not allow loose dogs to wander anywhere and had a kind of low key vibe. Tanner does very well there, and there have been no problems.

Take the time to find the right shop for your dog. Not every dog does well in those crowded, loud, chaotic shops that have loose dogs under foot.

Agreed. It's too bad you aren't in my area, or I could help. I manage my salon in such a way that no two dogs are ever out at the same time. I do have several dogs in the salon at a time, but when I'm working on one, the others are all safely crated--no one running loose, not even my own dog. Some groomers take one dog at a time, which would also be a good option.

You might even want to try a mobile groomer, that comes to your house and grooms your dog in their grooming van. No other dogs, no distractions. That won't solve the reactivity problem, but at least you can have him groomed without a big hassle.

David Taggart 02-16-2014 05:07 PM

Quote:

Sometimes with dog aggressive dogs, it just depends on the other dog,
That is exactly what shouldn't happen. Your dog should look at you. Ideally. There could be bears, dinosaurs, earthquakes, any "barking" disaster. Your dog should heel, should sit, should look at you if you asked. Building a new stereotype requires repetition in different situations. The trainer explains you how you, human, should behave in order to calm your dog, how to read him, the dog is an animal and would always behave instinctively. Say, if your face is turned towards that dog - even from behind your dog will see it! - and he would pull and bark. Shouts, high pitched tunes of your voice would excite him, and low, almost grumbling voice would tell him to obey. Dog's behaviour sould depend on the behaviour of his handler 75%, 10% on his mood which varies day to day, 10% on environment, and only 5% on the distracting object. Ideally.


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