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-   -   We'll it happened... (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/401690-well-happened.html)

mattyg1405 01-25-2014 02:58 PM

We'll it happened...
 
I'm not exactly sure why I am writing this maybe it's just to vent or maybe I want to know if I was wrong...either way the following happened today.

It's ten degrees f outside today and there's half a foot of snow on the ground so I take the opportunity to bring my dog to the dog park. When I arrive there's only one individual there dog off leash, so i let ranger go, no problems (there's never a problem)... After a few minutes another guy come by with a couple English water dogs. I'm there about fifteen minutes now and I make my way to the other side of the giant ass field to play with the frisbee. We play for at least another twenty minutes, by this time I'm freezing cold and I start the walk back to my truck, I have my dogs frisbee in my hands when I notice two white large labs and a smaller dog getting out of a car and running towards me. The dogs are greeting each other and one takes off grabbing the frisbee right out of my hand on his way out.
So i instantly know that this could be bad so I give my dog the command to stay and sit and I stand in front of him to keep eye contact with him , by this time the lady is telling her three dogs to stop with the frisbee . As she gets her dog to stop instead of picking up the frisbee and taking it away and having control of the situation she leaves it on the ground and distracts her dogs away, I release ranger and start my way back to the truck and the frisbee in between. As I approach the frisbee ranger grabs it and where on our way to the truck. The dogs all 3 come back. And the lab snaps and growls in rangers face to get the frisbee. To my surprise that's all it took for a full out dog fight to happen, one dog was gone and there's my dog and two others fighting silently and seriously, fist thing I do is go in grabbing the first dog by the neck and holding him in my left hand . He is the smalleR of the two dogs now I'm wrestling my dog and the other which are truly going at it now. I manage to get them apart for a moment only to get bit through the pinky, and they get back together, at this point someone grabs the little dog from me or I felt someone close enough to let go of the dog I know have two hands to get these **** dogs apart, I never once treated the other dog any different even though some would say to be overly aggressive with them I just swiftly and strongly grabbed both dogs by the necks until she came over only to throw a coffee cup at my dog and start mother ***** me and telling me I'm an ******* for bringing an attack dog to the park?,.,.,now I'm pissed off and I tell her to leave me the **** alone or call the cops because she was being an *******, she starts yelling all dumb **** to other people in the park that. I have a wolf dog and it's aNd attack dog... Finally she leaves and I do the same thereafter , after having a few cracks at her behavior with another gentleman.

Anyway ranger has a cut ear, and some fur stuck in his teeth and I've got a bitten pinky finger". I feel bad but I don't think I was wrong, I know how dogs get sometimes with toys and new dogs, and I addressed it . Only by her dog catching me by surprise i can guarantee this would have never happened, although I will admit my dog is very protective of toys sometimes it has never escalated to this there was maybe a growl or a snap and it was over (with the GSD' and golden he normally interacts with on a weekly basis.) I'm going to end my rant now I'm glad I was there because if I wasn't I fear dogs would have been severely injured this wasn't a show of aggression it was quiet and fierce.

** Please read the rules. No swearing and that includes putting * or other symbols in place of the letters. Thank you ADMIN**

Kahrg4 01-25-2014 03:12 PM

Omg how horrible!! I'm so sorry this happened to you. Make sure to take good care of your pinky so it doesn't get infected!

Poor Ranger. I've recently had experiences of my own with other owners who don't have control of their dogs. I think you did the right thing. Shame on that woman for failing to control her dogs or even intervene! Throwing coffee cups!?!? ugh. people.

Perhaps think about only visiting the dog park when the two of you can be alone there? My gsd gets possessive of tennis balls, and since you never know how the other dogs are going to be, we only visit the dp when it's empty.

Well wishes for a quick recovery for both you!

Sookie 01-25-2014 03:31 PM

I am sorry this happened. But I will say that if you have a dog who is very protective of toys - or has any type of aggression towards other dogs he plays with regularly like the snapping/snarling you mentioned - that you should NOT take him to a dog park, or let him around other dogs for play. You may think the woman is in the wrong, from her point of view you could be in the wrong. She probably expected your dog would be friendly as you had him at a dog park. I think that is a fair expectation on her part. Again, I'm sorry it happened, but it sounds like the whole time you were a bit on edge thinking it was a possibility, which in my mind means you should never have been there in the first place.

MadLab 01-25-2014 03:32 PM

I guess the dog getting your Frisbee was a mistake on your part.

As was not leashing up your dogs before the trouble kicked off.

selzer 01-25-2014 03:33 PM

You know how your dog gets about toys, you shouldn't have brought a toy to a dog park.

It doesn't mean the other lady wasn't more in the wrong, she was. But you need to protect your dog. There are idiots everywhere in the world, and for the future, if you continue to do, leave the toy behind, because having the toy there, caused a problem where there may not have been one.

I think too, that when the dog came and took your toy out of your hand, and the response from the other dogs' owner, and the fact that she had several dogs with her, I think you should have been more prepared for trouble. Hindsight it 20/20 but you probably should have carried the toy away instead of letting your dog carry it away. This dog was not willing to give you a pass with the toy, you being a human. Chances are he was not going to give your dog a pass with it. And the lady with three dogs simply did not have the control to prevent her dog from starting a problem.

We don't have to be in the wrong, for our actions or inactions to make a crappy situation worse. Sometime, to avoid problems, because I do not know how someone else's dog might act, I will do a thing that I shouldn't be expected to do. I think that in most situations, we can look back and ask ourselves, what might I have done differently? It doesn't mean you were wrong. It is just trying to make you and your critter more safe in the future.

mattyg1405 01-25-2014 03:41 PM

I know for sure that was a bad move , that's why I removed it it as soon as other dogs arrived. But for sure there's no place for toys at a dog park, they start fights no doubt about it. Just like you don't feed a bone to more than one dog I've seen that cause some stuff too. I felt bad , I reacted and this was a huge wake up call, not only about the toy but about the fact that most people don't know how to handle dogs especially in the bad situations. More and more I start thinking the dog park isn't always a great place ...

mattyg1405 01-25-2014 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sookie (Post 4903450)
I am sorry this happened. But I will say that if you have a dog who is very protective of toys - or has any type of aggression towards other dogs he plays with regularly like the snapping/snarling you mentioned - that you should NOT take him to a dog park, or let him around other dogs for play. You may think the woman is in the wrong, from her point of view you could be in the wrong. She probably expected your dog would be friendly as you had him at a dog park. I think that is a fair expectation on her part. Again, I'm sorry it happened, but it sounds like the whole time you were a bit on edge thinking it was a possibility, which in my mind means you should never have been there in the first place.

No , I want to clarify I've done this a lot , with a lot of dogs . You instantly know when there are dogs around that are going to be trouble I know this and I saw it, prior to seeing these dogs we've been playing frisbee with the digs that were there to begin with with no issues, it only happened when these three familiar dogs came into the picture I saw the behavior change in the dogs there hair was up and you could tell they were going to be a reaction.

mattyg1405 01-25-2014 03:50 PM

In my experience some dogs play and instantly create a pecking order and all goes well. Sometimes dogs have a bit more trouble letting another dog run the show, you can see this in dogs if you spend enough time with them. My dog is rarely a dominant dog he's ok with letting someone else running with his toy. And when I said that the dogs he normally plays with make noises or snap at each other that's pretty **** normal that's how they play there's a difference between dogs biting and attacking and biting and playing dogs don't have hands they have a mouth they use their mouth to meet, greet,play,eat,and bite. I think people are quick to jump to conclusions. When ranger plays with his usual buds they always have a toy out and whoever gets it first gets it there's never ever a fight over it.

JoeyG 01-25-2014 03:55 PM

Hey, sorry you had to run into an idiot. Make sure you take care of your finger. As to the incident I think you did better then I would have. I see people pointing out the things that could have avoided the situation but once it happens it's irrelevant. I would have beaten the other dog off mine to be honest. Our dogs would defend us regardless of whether we were right or wrong and I feel I owe mine the same! 2 against one isn't fair...

There's a huge newfoundland that comes to our DP that just doesn't like mine (mine plays with all others fine) and when I see him coming we leave. If he ever goes after mine in a real fight I have no problem defending mine as well. In your shoes I would have maybe even called the cops since her dogs came after you and your dog. If your's was staying with you and listened it's on that woman if you ask me!

Sookie 01-25-2014 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattyg1405 (Post 4903570)
In my experience some dogs play and instantly create a pecking order and all goes well. Sometimes dogs have a bit more trouble letting another dog run the show, you can see this in dogs if you spend enough time with them. My dog is rarely a dominant dog he's ok with letting someone else running with his toy. And when I said that the dogs he normally plays with make noises or snap at each other that's pretty **** normal that's how they play there's a difference between dogs biting and attacking and biting and playing dogs don't have hands they have a mouth they use their mouth to meet, greet,play,eat,and bite. I think people are quick to jump to conclusions. When ranger plays with his usual buds they always have a toy out and whoever gets it first gets it there's never ever a fight over it.

Okay well i am responding to you saying that you "instantly knew it could be bad" when the dog grabbed the frisbee and that he is "very protective of his toys" and has growled and snapped at other dogs over this. Yeah it could be play growls but it sounded like you were associating them with protectiveness not play.

And I guess I am responding to you seeming very angry at the woman for not taking your frisbee with her when if I were her I never would have taken it as I would have thought that would have made things much worse. She may have thought your dog would follow her and the frisbee and it would escalate.

Anyway, best of luck, sorry it happened. Hope yall get better soon and stay clear of the dog parks.


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