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Is my trainer crazy?

16K views 135 replies 52 participants last post by  hunterisgreat 
#1 ·
Our GSD, maverick, is now 8 months old. He's been developing a bit of dominant/aggressive behavior. He bit me a few weeks ago (drew blood, required trip to ER with no stitches), and bit a friend of ours over the weekend. Since the bite with me, we decided to get him a new trainer. Our usual trainer wanted us to hand him over for 3 weeks and they would kennel him at the boarders and train him during the day. I was totally uncomfortable with him being in a kennel... especially when I believe that my husband and I should have a direct role in his behavior training.

The trainer was landed on is a German Shepherd specific trainer. Very pricey, but has lots of awards and trains K-9 dogs as well as domestic and guard dogs.

Our first training session was last week. It was pretty good and I was happy when we left. At this session yesterday, it got pretty intense.

I'm 8 months pregnant and already hormonal and emotional. After Maverick tried to bite my husband during training a few times, the trainer took him over and chained him up in the yard. Then he put a second choker collar on him tied to a leash and proceeded to antagonize him. Everytime he lunged, the chain would choke him, and he would get "corrected" from my husband. This went on for 5 minutes and I had to walk away. Maverick finally stopped lunging and just laid down. Then after the rest of the training session, the trainer took him inside and had him on his choker with his leash and used a foam baseball bat with a glove on it to antagonize him again. He never hit him, just tapped him to make him irritated and rubbed him all over with it. Maverick bit it so hard a few times it ripped it out of the trainers hand. Eventually he just put up with it and tried to crawl under a table instead of biting.

Has anyone else had any training this intense before?
 
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#69 ·
Considering the amount of aggression the trainer is illiciting, I really think that the dog is a bad fit for the current home situation. Finding someone willing to take him on may not be easy though. I think that, that is probably what you need to do though.
 
#71 · (Edited)
How unhelpful.

Sometimes dogs are wired wrong. Sometimes people do get dogs that are too much for them, nothing like what they were expecting. I think the amount of aggression the 8 month old is displaying is actually a-typical for the breed. And that may have nothing to do with how the pup was raised, but is natural hardness, aggression, and drive. Maybe with different leadership, no one would ever know there was this much aggression in the dog, but that is a pretty big maybe.
 
#73 ·
Don't listen to advises to give up with your dog. It is very unlikely that the only child would be at risk. The troublesome situation is that one when there are more than one kid over 3 years old and a young untrained dog. Pack instinct is very strong in GSD, sure, he would be the best friend to your baby. But don't think it will make your life easier, he would bite big adults, who abused him, dogs have a very good memory. You need a Schuthund trainer, sure you have a club around, a kind and considerate person, who will give you tips how to "buy" your dog's soul, about making your dog obedient first of all, and how to avoid risky situations. 8 months old - that is when human adolescents start to challenge their parents, fight with their fathers. Grown sons don't need masters, but they need friends. Similarly - in dogs.
 
#74 ·
Don't listen to advises to give up with your dog. It is very unlikely that the only child would be at risk. The troublesome situation is that one when there are more than one kid over 3 years old and a young untrained dog. Pack instinct is very strong in GSD, sure, he would be the best friend to your baby.
Unlikely?

So a 10% chance the dog would harm a newborn? 20%....50%? How about bringing a newborn home to 0%.

Pack instinct is strong and would be best friend to baby?

You have read that this dog has bitten both pack members and serious bites??

Your logic is flawed and potentially dangerous to a newborn baby.
 
#76 ·
Your logic is flawed and potentially dangerous to a newborn baby.
Please, describe the danger. I would like to know about situation how possibly a newborn could be bitten. When the newborn will start walking the dog would be an adult already and behave like an adult towards a puppy of the pack, and, as an agressive type, he, most likely will turn overprotective.
 
#82 ·
Mr Taggart is not from the US, so he probably doesn't read our newspapers or watch the news here, where there have been ALOT of newborns/young children killed by the family "pet"..

Maybe the dogs where he is from don't do this, but it sure happens here.

I would not trust this dog with a newborn or a child.

And J&M,,very very poor taste in your statement ..

This is not a "puppy" per se,,it's an almost full grown powerful dog at 8 months of age.

When a dog decides it has no respect for it's owner, that's it..We would have a "come to owner" moment if one of mine did that..and they know it early on..However, aggression like this, can be amped up with aggressive moves from an owner..Or they can "get it" and move on, problem solved.

These owners have a dog they can't handle, and have a couple of options

1. Return him to the breeder
2. Get some professional help asap , which I don't think the one they used will help much, tho I do see he was trying to elicit a reaction in order to correct, not my way of doing things, but I suppose it can work for certain dogs.
3. Rehome him with someone who is qualified
4. Euthanize him
 
#84 ·
Such shy animals are in all circumstances an encumbrance to their owner, who must be ashamed of such a dog, and a disgrace to their race. Under no circumstances whatever must they be used for breeding, however noble and striking they may appear.
These words are insane. Dogs never ever were bred for their kindness to every man, every woman and every baby. It is in their nature to think about us, humans, as their food, because they are the preditors. We fool them by taking them away from their mothers before they remember anything. Many of us provide our babies with a soft toy. And when the toy grows into a beast, we disagree with his nature. But why? I can tell you why. Because we are scared of dogs. Mainly the humans are driven by instincts, that is only our culture which persuades us to pet an unknown dog, our instincts tell the opposite. The first thought is - to make to the tree and climb, as the ape would do in situation. And many do climb. When young. It is more natural for humans to be afraid of the dog, than to love him. In order to kill our instinctive fear - we better breed a creature out of the dog which: a) never bites; 2) never barks;3) friendly to strangers; 4) has inborn love to all sorts of children; 5) has a good coat for photography. One of such breeds does exist - that is American Cocker Spaniel. A dog for everybody.
 
#105 ·
I stand corrected then. I haven't seen the show I saw it on in a while and didn't remember correctly. In any case the OP hasn't been back since her second post, so we've been mostly playing with matches around the powder keg for the last few pages here anyway.

In any case the point wasn't about behavior per se it was that the result of the domestication was the result of selective breeding not nurture as the quote suggested so I didn't think it was that much of a stretch.
 
#106 · (Edited)
trainer is going to make your dog so fearful or fear aggressive


your dog is only 8 months old with this sort of method when he matures he will be a monster the worst liability


if you want to keep this dog start practicing NILF and make sure you feed the dog one kibble at a time always with your hands dont feed him in a bowl ever anymore for a while.


ALso dont give him anything unless he shows extreme OB, its very hard you are going through some changes.


we put person just like your dog did, that brings out aggression, you do this with an unbalnced dog the dog can become very dangerous OR if you put too much pressure the dog at such a young age goes into avoidence and can become fearful.

a scared dog that bites = a very dangerous dog
 
#110 · (Edited)
For peoples information, the silver fox experiment took 8 generations to produce an animal which is affectionate with humans. Note that is using one percent of the population of foxes which already showed a lack of fear of humans. This means that these 1% of foxes already possessed domestic traits.

Fox experiment at around 35 minutes in


Edit, At 31 minutes, an experiment shows wolf pups can't be raised to be a nice normal pet
 
#113 ·
Tame behavior vs domestication is a HUGE difference. Actual domestication entails not only complete behavioral change but physical changes as well, spotting and markings, dropped ears, curled tails, etc... as well proving that aggressive parents produce aggressive offspring is hardly "killer werefox"

The fact that you also said they produced completely domesticated animals in a single breeding in one breath and you can't take a wolf from it's dam and have a tame animal in the next is very contradicting

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#114 ·
Where did I say you could produce completely domesticated animals in a single breeding? There goes that selective memory again. Werefox was obviously meant semi facetiously as they aren't half human and come out on full moons but apparently that went over your head.
 
#115 ·
Some species can never be completely domesticated. It depends on the amount of genetic variability within the species, and whether they have "domestication" genes. For example, good luck domesticating the wolverine or the polar bear (taming is something else entirely).

Modern dogs have immense genetic variability shown in coat color and length, and size, from the tiniest terrier to the largest Kangal dog. Genetic variability is also seen in workability from the aloof sheep guardian dog to the independently driven sled dog to the intensely human-focused malinois.

While foxes apparently have some genetic variability, modern dogs are unique in that they often (almost always if raised right) value their human companions more than canine ones. As a genetic trait. That is pretty incredible.
 
#116 · (Edited)
I think your pup is much too young for this kind of training and it needs a different approach. Mine was dealt with harshly with one trainer but not like this. We changed trainers and he said she was overcorrected and was wincing with hand movements. They were much better at correcting the behavior while watching the body language preceeding a lunge, but it was a quick tug on a pinch collar after a "no" if she didn't listen.
Please get another trainer. GSDs are also so sensitive and agression can breed agression.
 
#119 ·
ive seen so called tame pet raccoons turn aggressive at 2 or 3 years and mutilate their owners, but they were so friendly and loving at first when being bottle raised to that age.


A lot of species can be tame as a baby but what they will do to you when they start to mature and their wild instincts kick in you dont know. Or do to your house.
 
#120 ·
**deleted quote removed**

You said 2-3 generations. I said 14 generations for domestication and it is indeed 14 generations. I have the actual pdf of the study if you would like to read it, it is VERY interesting. You said arctic fox. It was russian silver foxes (which I pointed out). I was exactly correct on all accounts because I have gone over this study extensively. Nor was I necessarily trying to be a complete ass to you, so I do apologize for that. It just blows my mind sometime how people can throw out "facts" that they may or may not of heard years ago, and be so completely wrong. Which is fine, I dont remember half the stuff I heard yesterday. But instead of stating something like it is a known fact, simply say "I think I heard something along these lines -"

That and even the mere suggestion that a wild fox could be domesticated in 2 generations. ...

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#123 ·
?????????????? Raising children and raising dogs are absolutely nothing alike! I've raised two sons to adulthood and many, many dogs and there is no common ground here. Amazingly stupid comment!
 
#125 ·
I doubt they would. I've raised a 22 year old girl to be a kind, intelligent and generous human (and various dogs over the years), and I still think it's still a ridiculous comment. There is no true conflation of the two. Humans reason and view things on a very different level to our beloved four legged friends. The comment was mean spirited and had no real place in the discussion.
 
#126 ·
it may have been mean spirited, doesn't mean that being fair and consistent shouldn't be the basis for any child or dog raising you might want to do.

You disagree that being fair and consistent aren't hugely important in raising dogs or kids?

and it isn't funny how these threads go after a few days? the OP hasn't even been back and we're on how many side bars already?
 
#127 ·
My sister always jokes that if I had kids they would be very well behaved because I would treat them just like my dogs haha

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