(The kids thought I was playing a game, but I obviously wasn't)
This is an ongoing issue, and sometimes it's not easy to describe what's been going on.
My daughter had a friend over. I decided to leash Kira, and video her actions. I wanted the people here to see what Kira's been doing to all guests.
This girl has been in my home for about an hour. Kira's been "on alert" since she walked in. My wife leashed her, and put her next to her on the sofa. The young girl was sitting in a small dinette area with my other daughters.
Kira was lying down, when I asked the girl to simply get up an walk over to the fridge or recliner.
Please describe what you see.
It's an ugly video, and I'm very embarrassed by her behavior, so please be nice.
I'm looking for answers, not criticism.
Yay!!! I couldn't stop thinking about your situation. So glad you figured something out. You have been an amazing dog owner IMHO. I look at some of the stuff you do with Kira, and think, "I wish Stella would do that".
And I love reading the "Kira did this" posts. I look forward to your threads. They are never boring!
Just so you know, you were one of the people whose posts and pms helped me when I was getting so frustrated and ready to throw in the towel. I love it that Kira is not perfect and that you continue to work with her. It inspires me to do the same with Stella.
Looking forward to the day when those of us with young, reactive dogs can look back on these days and say...."Been there, done that. But it's over and I now have a wonderful, mature, well behaved GSD".
The reason I chose a run, is because I keep Kira out in the yard for hours during the day. Outside of playing with her toys, she has no problem just laying back there, and enjoying the fresh air.
The run is on the side of my home. It will allow the kids to open the back sliders to my yard, yet keep the dog secured. I have the BBQ, table, chairs, etc.. back there.
I would think that putting her in a place she enjoys would reduce her stress of being removed from the action.
Sometimes it just takes a little longer until it dawns on us. BTDT
You are doing the right thing. You certainly seem to have the premises and the means to build her a beautiful run.
Another thing you can do is, if she likes Kongs with Peanutbutter, Cow Hoves or anything else to chew on... always have a couple of Kongs ready in the freezer so whenever she has to be removed from the action you can give her one outside.
It's not something you have to do but I do that with the boarding dogs I'm having here. Whenever they have to be removed and go into the crate, they get a Kong with frozen Peanutbutter, that way they keep quiet. Since she's at home, she might not need that at all, I'd still do it though
I'm really happy to hear this Anthony. I think you have a GREAT plan and I wish you the best of luck! Thankfully, Kira has an amazing owner and will be able to be enjoyed for what she is.... even if she is a bit quirky.
I just joined this forum. I'm looking to be as informed as possible. I have a 9 month GSD, Zeke. He is not my first GSD and I have six other dogs in the house. We also rescue dogs and have found homes for three other dogs who are very sweet and loving companions to their new families.
I love him to death and we are very bonded. The video of Kira is nothing compared to how insane he reacts. When he is in attack mode I can only pull him off with great physical force and great risk of being bit. He is incredibly focused on whatever he is after. I know some of his behavior is consistent with his breed. He is very protective and super vigilant. He has bitten me a number of times, but nothing serious. He is also afraid of everything( diagnosis fear agression). He has attacked all of our small dogs, two had to go to the vet. Most recently he continued to attack even after the other dog showed her belly and was submissive. He grew up with these dogs, they are not new to him. We've been to the behavioral clinic at OSU and I've been in frequent contact with the behaviorist. We've been to basic training, which back fired. I need to get him in to a desensitzation program recommended by the behaviorist. I've read numerous books, websites, talked to "experts".
For safety he now must be kept separate from all other dogs/cats. He must be crated when ever any children are around, or any friends come in the house. He must be kept on a very strict routine which includes DAP collar, Prozac and distraction (Kongs and the like). I can only exercise him late at night or early in the morning when there are no other people/dogs out. I'm training him to get used to a thundershirt and a muzzle.
I'm now to the point, like Kira's mom, where I think I need to build him a large run so I can be sure he can't get out and hurt anyone or anything.
Supposedly, we will be able to desensistize him over time. It just seems like no way for a big healthy dog to live. All of this intervention goes against everything I've always believed about dogs. I never in a million years thought I'd agree to medicate a dog. Training definitely, but medication? I was critical of friends who did medicate their dogs.
I understand what you are going through. A year ago, I would not have understood. I've had to live through it myself.
I just joined this forum. I'm looking to be as informed as possible. I have a 9 month GSD, Zeke. He is not my first GSD and I have six other dogs in the house. We also rescue dogs and have found homes for three other dogs who are very sweet and loving companions to their new families.
I love him to death and we are very bonded. The video of Kira is nothing compared to how insane he reacts. When he is in attack mode I can only pull him off with great physical force and great risk of being bit. He is incredibly focused on whatever he is after. I know some of his behavior is consistent with his breed. He is very protective and super vigilant. He has bitten me a number of times, but nothing serious. He is also afraid of everything( diagnosis fear agression). He has attacked all of our small dogs, two had to go to the vet. Most recently he continued to attack even after the other dog showed her belly and was submissive. He grew up with these dogs, they are not new to him. We've been to the behavioral clinic at OSU and I've been in frequent contact with the behaviorist. We've been to basic training, which back fired. I need to get him in to a desensitzation program recommended by the behaviorist. I've read numerous books, websites, talked to "experts".
For safety he now must be kept separate from all other dogs/cats. He must be crated when ever any children are around, or any friends come in the house. He must be kept on a very strict routine which includes DAP collar, Prozac and distraction (Kongs and the like). I can only exercise him late at night or early in the morning when there are no other people/dogs out. I'm training him to get used to a thundershirt and a muzzle.
I'm now to the point, like Kira's mom, where I think I need to build him a large run so I can be sure he can't get out and hurt anyone or anything.
Supposedly, we will be able to desensistize him over time. It just seems like no way for a big healthy dog to live. All of this intervention goes against everything I've always believed about dogs. I never in a million years thought I'd agree to medicate a dog. Training definitely, but medication? I was critical of friends who did medicate their dogs.
I understand what you are going through. A year ago, I would not have understood. I've had to live through it myself.
" When he is in attack mode I can only pull him off with great physical force and great risk of being bit. He is incredibly focused on whatever he is after.
- part removed ---
He is very protective and super vigilant. He has bitten me a number of times, but nothing serious. He is also afraid of everything( diagnosis fear agression). He has attacked all of our small dogs, two had to go to the vet. Most recently he continued to attack even after the other dog showed her belly and was submissive"
I am so sorry that your dog is so much trouble . This is not normal nor is it (part reinserted) " I know some of his behavior is consistent with his breed.", not at all . If it were normal I would have no interest in the breed . Instead the GSD can provide great service and positive things to "us" but there has to be a stable temperament at the base which allows for this.
It would be interesting to critically examine how and why such temperament came to be , looking at the pedigree, early diet, early raising and exposure --- not saying that you created it - early signs .
I talked to the behaviorist about why he is like this. I was sure I did something wrong. No one can say for sure. Zeke was an accident. A friend of mine who has two GSD protection dogs was watching her sisters GSD. I met the bitch at a softball game because they were trying to socialize her. They have a good deal of experience with the breed. The bitch was very small, timid, stressed, skittish and very underweight. The dad is a 140 pound GSD bred for protection. I didn't think about all of this when I agreed to take one of the puppies. I love GSD's, grew up with them.
I guess with eight puppies, mom couldn't feed them all so they had to wean early with a combination of bottle feedings and regular food. The house is very small, maybe 800 Sq ft with three adult GSD's and eight puppies. When I went to see him, the house was very chaotic, the owner was sick and they generally had a mess on their hands. All the pups had diarhhea. I got him at 8 weeks. I made sure he was very socialized with other dogs, kids, cats, strangers as a puppy. He was quickly house broken, learned to go in his crate, ride in the car and was very loving and friendly. He was always a little timid but did not show any extreme skittishness or fear. When he was four months I started him out with a trainer. They were one on one classes. Meeting the trainer is the first time I realized that he had fear aggression. We did training on the basic commands for about two months. He loved going, he was always very excited to get into the trainers house each week. He learned the commands very quickly, then began to backslide. He stopped performing the commands and laid down on my feet, or bit my feet. The training was completely "no" based - no choke collars, etc. I decided to stop the training and took him to Ohio State to be evaluated.
The behaviorist said definitely stop the training and try to reduce as much stimulus as possible so we can get him to a place where we can start to work with him. Keep him away from other animals, never take him to the dog park or pet store, and take him out for walks when it is not busy outside. Refocus him with yummy treats and kongs.
My friends still have three of the puppies plus the two adult protection dogs. I know she is struggling to handle them all.
" When he is in attack mode I can only pull him off with great physical force and great risk of being bit. He is incredibly focused on whatever he is after.
- part removed ---
He is very protective and super vigilant. He has bitten me a number of times, but nothing serious. He is also afraid of everything( diagnosis fear agression). He has attacked all of our small dogs, two had to go to the vet. Most recently he continued to attack even after the other dog showed her belly and was submissive"
I am so sorry that your dog is so much trouble . This is not normal nor is it (part reinserted) " I know some of his behavior is consistent with his breed.", not at all . If it were normal I would have no interest in the breed . Instead the GSD can provide great service and positive things to "us" but there has to be a stable temperament at the base which allows for this.
It would be interesting to critically examine how and why such temperament came to be , looking at the pedigree, early diet, early raising and exposure --- not saying that you created it - early signs .
Anthony so glad you back and have plan for Kira. you are great dog owner.And please don't give up on posting about her,if you can, I know some people can upset you but it's help so many others with reactive dogs and you have great advices for training
No, I don't think he has a normal life at all. He is constantly stressed. I had to cut his walk short last night because he was panting, constantly swiveling his head, walking erratically. It was 9:30 at night but every little noise and movement was setting him off. I try very hard to stay in his routine and do everything at the same time in the same way, otherwise he gets very stressed. If I am even 15 minutes late putting him to bed, he starts to freak out. My poor, poor baby
The run has been working great, as well as strict crating when guests are floating around. Kira still gets excited when people are around, but as long as I'm around, I can manage and keep her calm. However, if I'm not around, my family has been very cooperative, and have been crating her.
Ive been keeping a close eye, and have been trying to introduce guests with greets and treats. She's been better lately, but as I learned prior, she can't be completely trusted.
i didn't see a correction with the dog, just getting more keyed up straining at the end of the leash which makes it worse. i would definitely get some professional help so that you can manage and correct things.
Debbie, the video was "staged". I wanted the behavior identified. I wasn't looking for corrections just yet.
Just wanted to know what others thought she was doing.
All dogs differ in their reactivity. My female can meet someone take treats from them be go for a walk with them and seem ok. All of a sudden person leaves the room and returns and you get the reaction all over again. So nothing new there. Some dogs can be reactive meet the stimuli and be ok after that.
I understand your dillema. When you think of German Shepherd you think guardian, partner, trustworthy companion. Instead you ended up with a reactive dog that you cannot fully trust around other people. A dog you have to always keep an eye on. A dog that loves you and your family but is a danger to anyone else be they a threat or not.
The bottom line is there always be an element of risk with a reactive dog. You can put OB on her, you can counter condition and these things help and minimize the risk. However will she ever be the same as a confident dog, with good nerves and a clear head? A dog that can be more then just a pet but a partner? A dog you can trust with the kids and their friends? Possible but not likely imo.
So now you have a difficult choice keep the reactive dog, know that she will be happy with you but will likely not give you the same relationship and experience as a better nerved dog.
Or you re home her, and go with the alternative, but the dog has to adjust to a new home.
If you have the space and can have two even better. A strong stable nerved male might help to settle her down, they feed off each other so much.. though I wouldnt rely too much on that. But you can get the guardian and partner aspect from him and contain her more without compromising her security or yours.
Tough choices all around.
I didn't read this thread the first time around, but I got to the part where you seemed to be contemplating rehoming her and jumped to the end. I'm glad to see you've found a solution and I hope the new run is giving you and Kira some peace. I've had a soft spot for her ever since I saw her pedigree you posted and saw that she's related to my dog. Good luck with your beautiful girl!
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