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My dog is going to kill the cats

13K views 67 replies 34 participants last post by  Mikelia 
#1 ·
I am sure of this now. I am in tears over the situation that just occurred. I don't know what to do anymore, I feel like an absolute failure as a dog owner. I did everything right with introductions, and they never got along...doesnt help that my cats are complete idiots either. Ever since Berlin got scratched in the eye, he's been out for BLOOD. I have baby gates up, the cats have a 'safe haven' etc, I keep Berlin by me when he is upstairs, BUT these incidents still occur, because he literally is a psychopath when he sees/smells/knows where the cats are. They hide under the couch, and he frantically digs at the couch, whines, goes and checks all their spots that they might be in, he literally looks crazy.

Well tonight, I walk upstairs, and one of the cats must have been in the kitchen hiding....Berlin was right by me, and literally in a SPLIT SECOND he is gone, into the frontroom and has chased (and apparently cornered the cat). Well, THIS time he got the cat, and really good, I had to pry the cat from his jaws, and smack berlin on the snout to stun him so he would release the cat (I feel like a monster :(.....) Well I get the cat, and go to take it upstairs to the gated off area, and the OTHER cat goes running out of the room and jumps OVER the gate and literally INTO the jaws of my dog. WHAT is their problems?!! He got her, but she escaped and ran to under the couch. This all happened in about 2 minutes.

He knows THIS behavior is NOT acceptable. I seriously am at my wits end, I have tried the prong, tried to desensitize, everything, NOTHING works....

And I know tonight was my fault ultimately, for not tethering the dog to me, even though I had only planned to go upstairs for a minute....the cats never come down until we go to sleep. Even if I tether him to me, he will pull me down to chase these cats. After witnessing his behavior toward them tonight, I know he is not trying to play anymore, he wants to kill them.

Ultimately, this cannot go on like this anymore, I cannot tether an adult GSD to me forever whenever I want to go do anything in the house. I also cannot lock him in his crate and keep him away from everyone. I can't control the cats, and confine them to one room (my mothers bedroom) because their food is in the kitchen (although they do eat at night) and their litterbox is downstairs as well. They come and go as they please, but Berlin is relentless in his attempts to get them.

I am seriously afraid I am going to have to re-home him, as my mother WILL not give the cats up.

Any advice, is truly appreciated. :(
 
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#4 ·
Yes, by re-home thats what I meant. He would go back to her. I really really really do not want that to be the case though.

I would look into getting an electronic collar and training on how to use it.

This type of situation is a very good use for those collars.
Does he wear an e-collar all the time in the house..? Does it have any adverse effects on his behavior?
 
#14 ·
Agreed. I looked into doing this to, but at the moment my dog is slowly learning to let the cats be, and he doesn't quite have the intensity and bad intentions as the OP's dog.

I suggest finding a new trainer, one that specializes and experienced in e-collar training. Prong and e-collars are nothing more than tools. When used properly, with the right training, they can be very effective. In the same way a hammer isn't the right tool for every job, it seems narrow minded to say that because hammers have been used incorrectly and can cause damage that you'll never use a hammer. IMO, e-collars aren't the right tool for every situation, but if left with the alternative of giving up my dog or having it kill one of the cats, it's definitely a tool I'd consider utilizing before choosing the alternatives. JMO
 
#8 ·
The trainer that my dog works with does not like any use of prong/ecollars. She had me try the leave it command/desensitizing etc. It hasnt been working because I cant tell WHEN he smells or sees a cat, so I cant snap him out of it before he gets to such an intense level.
 
#12 ·
Until you can train him to leave the cats alone you absolutely need to keep him tethered to you at all times and keep him crated at least a couple of hours every single day while you are home so that the poor cats can spend time with your family without fearing for their lives.
 
#13 ·
Wow. You feel bad for smacking your dog when it got your cat? I have 4 dogs and 4 cats, if any of them looked at the cats the wrong way they would be GONE. Nope. Nuh-uh. Not allowing it.

We might be lucky cause we have streetwise cats-- dont run when the dogs approach them and stand their ground.

Get a muzzle on your dog before anything else can happen. Muzzle isn't permanent, only until you can get him trained. Have him on a leash at all times, and have something to redirect him to (bullystick, toy, bone).

Right now he is in a habit of looking for the cats and checking these spots, you need to break this habit. He goes to look for the cats? Grab that leash and make him do puppy push ups (sit down sit down sit down). He isn't listening? I don't know. I'm not into punishment but this isn't something you can mess around with because you're dealing with another animals life. A quick correction with a prong might be enough to grab his focus for a second, and then you'll have to work from there.

Please get a handle on this quickly.
 
#16 ·
I hope you can break this.....sometimes this behavior is fixable...but sometimes it is not....I have had one dog whose obsession with cats could not be broken...I did not want to constantly physically punish him, and I could not allow the behavior to continue, so he went to a home with no cats....

I have other dogs who are fine with cats...I got a Bengal kitten in December and she is not mine, she decided that Csabre is her best friend... :( :(


Good luck...if you cannot break this obsession, do not let anyone make you feel guilty about it....sometimes it just is what it is!
 
#17 ·
I use an e-collar that gives an audible sound when my dogs go after the neighbors cats.
It distracts them just enough to where their focus is back on me.
If that doesn't work (which it works 99% of the time) the e-collar also has two settings for different intensities.
Making sure the settings are correct are very important. It needs to be set high enough to distract the dog from the heat of the moment, but not high enough to get a jerk reaction out of the dog.
I agree with Michael Ellis. Test the collar on your self before you try it on the dog. Hold it in your hand and press the buttons. After this you should have more respect for the e-collar and not reaching to push the button every-time the dog barks.
When used properly e-collars are one of the best tools available for dog trainers.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 
#18 ·
We have 4 cats and 3 dogs. Our husky has high prey drive and has nearly killed 2 of our cats. If he could get to them, he would kill all 4. We have a 2-story house, so the dogs live downstairs with access to the outside, and the cats live upstairs exclusively. So both the dogs and cats have an entire floor to themselves. It's plenty of room. The cat's food and litter boxes are upstairs with them, so they have no reason to EVER come downstairs. They also know that Paw Paw is waiting to eat them, so they're smart enough to stay upstairs. All we have up to separate them are baby gates that the dogs don't knock down or jump over, even though they could if they wanted to. Only by accident has Paw Paw gotten to the cats, and that was because our children accidentally let him upstairs and my wife or I were on him in a heartbeat. We also have a door we can close at the bottom of the stairway landing. Not sure if you have the same option, but no cat or dog can get through a closed, secured door. Haha!

I honestly don't think you can train prey drive out of a dog, but I'm no expert. It seems like a natural instinct that's there for a reason. Not sure if your dog has prey drive like my Paw Paw. He'll catch birds out of the sky. He's fast and intense! I've never seen a dog like him. But we keep him under control, because we love our cats (almost) as much as we love our dogs. Haha!

Good luck. And I'm there with you about idiotic cats. When we had the big wire dog crate still out for overnight sleeping/training for our pup Beowulf, our rescued feral cat somehow was running from the dogs and ran into the crate's open door and got herself trapped inside with all 3 dogs attacking her. They must've gotten 30+ bites on her before I could wrestle them all out and save her. Luckily for her this time, there was not a scratch and she was fine. Whew! I'm definitely a dog lover, and these cats have a soft spot in my heart, but I'd be OK with just dogs and no cats. My wife would disagree, thus a compromise is in place.
 
#20 ·
I'm really sorry, I hope that this can be worked out... It would so not be fair for you to lose two dogs in less then a year. :(

I don't have any useful advice, Ollie is similar with my cats and small dogs except his seems to be an intense herding drive, no aggression so far.

What I've been doing so far is keeping him on lead... Letting him chase just keeps rewarding the behavior which means he will keep doing it.

Maybe look into a private trainer who could come and observe and give their take? I know how devastating this sort of thing is. My golden has bitten all of my dogs and just recently snapped at one of my cats.

Do you do NILIF with Berlin?
 
#23 ·
It's unpopular for a few reasons. One- the cats aren't hers. Two- do you remember what this poor young woman has gone through to date? Three- it's a dog forum, a GSD forum. I'd re-home the cats if they were mine. I realize she can't do that. We kept my cat on another floor protected by a baby gate on the stairs until my GSD was older. The cat learned, the dog learned. It took time. However, this guy may not be able to 'grow out of' what he's doing since he's so serious about it. So then, I'd put the cats in mom's bedroom with all their stuff. Keep the pup. Problem solved. Then again, I'd also be looking to move out with my pup.
 
#26 ·
How do I find a trainer that could come to my house to help me work on this situation (AND teach my MOTHER HOW TO HANDLE IT?) My mother wont listen to me, and is frustrating me so MUCH!
 
#28 ·
First off it is your mothers house and your mothers cats. She doesn't have to listen to you, you have to listen to her. Are you really listening to her? I know if my kids came back home and started to tell me how to run my house they would soon be looking for a new place to live. :)
 
#27 ·
In my limited experience with dogs and cats, the exercise you did with Berlin seems to say that you can overcome this. He's not into an uncontrollable "KILL" mindset if he can focus on you with them there. I don't know how to find a trainer that will come to your home to work on it. As far as you mom goes.. don't even get me started. :cry:
 
#30 · (Edited)
if your dog is able to focus on you in the presence of a cat then you are LUCKY and this will most likely be able to be worked through! congrats.
in the opening post it felt like every time he smelled a cat he went nutso, but i can see that isn't the case. my friend has a gsd that if he even smells cat, will start foaming at the mouth, whining, panting, pulling her down the street. it is horrible cause we live in the country and there are a ton of barn / stray cats, so he is constantly in this high level of stress.


when working with the prong and the cats, make sure you correct him for not listening to you "watch me", "sit", etc. and not for looking at the cats, or he will associate them with punishment and then he will really be out for blood.

i dont really know about how to get your parents to listen. mine never have lol. i told mine they either listen or don't bother the dogs.

edit:
ALSO reward for any avoidance / calming behaviors. if on his own he looks at a cat and then looks away (even if it isnt at you) jackpot him
 
#31 ·
I am sure of this now. I am in tears over the situation that just occurred. I don't know what to do anymore, I feel like an absolute failure as a dog owner. I did everything right with introductions, and they never got along...doesnt help that my cats are complete idiots either. Ever since Berlin got scratched in the eye, he's been out for BLOOD. I have baby gates up, the cats have a 'safe haven' etc, I keep Berlin by me when he is upstairs, BUT these incidents still occur, because he literally is a psychopath when he sees/smells/knows where the cats are. They hide under the couch, and he frantically digs at the couch, whines, goes and checks all their spots that they might be in, he literally looks crazy.

Well tonight, I walk upstairs, and one of the cats must have been in the kitchen hiding....Berlin was right by me, and literally in a SPLIT SECOND he is gone, into the frontroom and has chased (and apparently cornered the cat). Well, THIS time he got the cat, and really good, I had to pry the cat from his jaws, and smack berlin on the snout to stun him so he would release the cat (I feel like a monster :(.....) Well I get the cat, and go to take it upstairs to the gated off area, and the OTHER cat goes running out of the room and jumps OVER the gate and literally INTO the jaws of my dog. WHAT is their problems?!! He got her, but she escaped and ran to under the couch. This all happened in about 2 minutes.

He knows THIS behavior is NOT acceptable. I seriously am at my wits end, I have tried the prong, tried to desensitize, everything, NOTHING works....

And I know tonight was my fault ultimately, for not tethering the dog to me, even though I had only planned to go upstairs for a minute....the cats never come down until we go to sleep. Even if I tether him to me, he will pull me down to chase these cats. After witnessing his behavior toward them tonight, I know he is not trying to play anymore, he wants to kill them.

Ultimately, this cannot go on like this anymore, I cannot tether an adult GSD to me forever whenever I want to go do anything in the house. I also cannot lock him in his crate and keep him away from everyone. I can't control the cats, and confine them to one room (my mothers bedroom) because their food is in the kitchen (although they do eat at night) and their litterbox is downstairs as well. They come and go as they please, but Berlin is relentless in his attempts to get them.

I am seriously afraid I am going to have to re-home him, as my mother WILL not give the cats up.

Any advice, is truly appreciated. :(

Easy fix put on an E Collar (collar condition him first) and go to continuous Stim on high if he even starts to go after a cat. It starts with the stare and progresses from there. I would put a cat in a carrier put it in the middle of the floor any time he tries to get at the cat stim. Lots of people are going to disagree with me (not that I care) but lives are at stake here like you said.
 
#32 ·
Blitzkrieg, can I do this same method with the prong? I was planning on doing that, putting the cat (one at a time) in their carrier, and setting it FAR away from him, putting him on a leash/prong, and work with him FAR away at first, getting him to do commands for me etc, and gradually move closer (by gradually I mean days/weeks). If he would not focus on me and listen to me, he'd get corrected.

if your dog is able to focus on you in the presence of a cat then you are LUCKY and this will most likely be able to be worked through! congrats.
in the opening post it felt like every time he smelled a cat he went nutso, but i can see that isn't the case. my friend has a gsd that if he even smells cat, will start foaming at the mouth, whining, panting, pulling her down the street. it is horrible cause we live in the country and there are a ton of barn / stray cats, so he is constantly in this high level of stress.


when working with the prong and the cats, make sure you correct him for not listening to you "watch me", "sit", etc. and not for looking at the cats, or he will associate them with punishment and then he will really be out for blood.

i dont really know about how to get your parents to listen. mine never have lol. i told mine they either listen or don't bother the dogs.

edit:
ALSO reward for any avoidance / calming behaviors. if on his own he looks at a cat and then looks away (even if it isnt at you) jackpot him
Thank you for this advice. Im very happy to hear I can most likely work through this with him! :D Well, he does go nutzo if no one is there to work with him like I was doing earlier. Sometimes if a cat is under the couch, and he comes upstairs, he will go crazy trying to get it. I cannot let him get to that point anymore. Glad he isnt as bad as your friends GSD. phew! And thanks, dont want him to associate the kitties with bad things, only GOOD things like GOOD treats and LOTS of praise. Thats why when I work on desensitizing, and the kitties are in my room while he is crated, he gets LOT of treats and praise when he is a good boy.

I think both need to listen to each other. Mom allowed Berlin in the home. Daughter is trying to work things out so everyone can live in peace. That may mean mom needs to be on board, too, so that Berlin's training is consistent. I'm a parent, too... but when your kids are adults living with you everyone needs to have open communication and listen to each other. Especially in a situation like this. JMO

First off it is your mothers house and your mothers cats. She doesn't have to listen to you, you have to listen to her. Are you really listening to her? I know if my kids came back home and started to tell me how to run my house they would soon be looking for a new place to live. :)
Words of wisdom Jag! Shepherdmom, it is my mothers house, and her cats (but I care for them so technically they are also mine...) but if she cares for the well being of the cats, and the dog (whom she LOVES) she has to help me out. When I am at work/school, she is the primary caretaker of my dog. If i set up certain limitations/rules for him, she needs to follow them so there are NO lapses in consistency. If he is going good for a month, and then one day ACCIDENTALLY is able to chase a kitty, everything is back to square one, as I have learned. I respect my mother very much, and listen to her, but for the sake of OUR animals, we have to listen to each other and help each other out to make this work! Jag, what you said is 100% what I meant, and what needs to happen. My mother loves Berlin, and would NOT want me to give him up, so we just need to work on this together.

In my limited experience with dogs and cats, the exercise you did with Berlin seems to say that you can overcome this. He's not into an uncontrollable "KILL" mindset if he can focus on you with them there. I don't know how to find a trainer that will come to your home to work on it. As far as you mom goes.. don't even get me started. :cry:
I am so happy to hear this. :D:D:D I was so happy to see that the work with watch me I have been doing has really been paying off. I did this exercise again, and this time the kitty was OUT, on the cat tree...Berlin looked at him, knew he was there, but listened to my commands of come, sit, WATCH (and watched me for 10 seconds). I did about 3 repetitions of watch and then told him to come with me and we left. No uncontrollable behavior. Nothing. I am just going to practice this exercise as much as I can, and have him focus on me for longer periods of time, and as they get more comfortable, hopefully the cats will eventually walk past him etc.
 
#40 ·
Do you crate your dog when you are not there? Does he get the right amount of exercise and something to chase an fetch when being played with? You know what he can and can not put his mouth on. I know I am not a real big cat person but I don't believe it is always the dogs fault. Trainers end up training people as much if not more then the dog :). A no means no, and a reward means good, I have no inbetween. I really hope you can get this worked out. How old is your dog?
 
#41 ·
Yes, he is always crated when I am not home, or no one is able to watch him. He gets the right amount of exercise, and he has PLENTY of toys to chase and what not. Ordered him a flirt pole yesterday also, so that should help. This is not 100% the dogs fault, it is mine first and foremost, and somewhat the cats fault too. They know where their safe spot is...I have NO idea why the cat instead chose to run himself into a corner, when he ran RIGHT past the stairs that lead to the safe spot. Mieko just wants the dog to love him, and I wish they'd get along..We had good progress today, all I can do is take it one day at a time for now.

From our experience, trainers usually have a facility or space that they train in, so we'd have to go to them. We hired a behaviorist and she wanted to come to our house to see the exact situation/environment that was creating the problems that needed correction. She understood that, if we met elsewhere, the problem might not be replicated exactly the same, so the solution wouldn't help when Nara was back at home acting up. I'd look for a behaviorist instead of a trainer, and you can always ask around for recommendations on who is good and who you should stay away from. People, from experience, might also know who makes house calls and who doesn't. Good luck!
Thank you! I'll look into behaviorists in the area.

Do you want /need to train him to leave them alone while you are with him OR the much more difficult job of training him to leave them alone while he is home with them without you there? (Not advised!)

I would think that a pro trainer (a good one!) should be able to convince a 7mo puppy that he cannot even look at your cats!
I want him trained when I AM with him, lol, he will always be in his crate when no one is home..or atleast until I have my own place and he is much older.

Well all I can say is this would not happen at my house. :) I wouldn't agree to be caretaker while you are at work/school I flat wouldn't have the time. I have my own work and my own school and my own animals to care for. My kids could come home but they would have to find their own pet sitters or do it themselves.
If my kids needed to come home, then of course I would be willing to take them in but I would expect them to train, raise, vet and keep control of any animals they bring with them. If op's mom had wanted a puppy, she would have gotten one, obviously she didn't. It is not fair for adult children to come home and then expect mom to follow directions on training a dog she didn't want in the first place. Mom has opened her home so daughter has a place to live now daughter has to do her very best to avoid disrupting mom's life and to not put the lives of her mom's cats at risk. It is simple common courtesy.
Shepherdmom, I appreciate your input, but it is a tad unfair to make assumptions about my home/personal life. When me getting a dog was in talks, I had planned on taking him to daycare when I was gone, but she offered to watch him. She actually loves him, and its HER choice to watch him. She has even joked (i hope) about wanting me to leave him with her when I move out. So dont assume that I got a dog and pushed this training and responsibility to watch him on to her. At any point, I could take him to day care. She really doesnt mind watching him, she enjoys having him around, and training him and what not. My mother does want a puppy, BUT, she does not have enough time to fully raise one. So she actually enjoys the fact that she gets to help raise mine.. And as for her training a dog she didnt want in the first place, she DID want him. I did not just go get a dog and bring him home without her permission, as it is her house. She allowed me to get a dog, and offered to help me out with him. I never asked her. As zivagirl said, different household different rules. If my mother did not want a dog, or allow me to have one, I wouldnt have my dog right now. If she didnt want to watch him while I was gone, he'd be in doggie daycare.

Honestly I wouldnt use the prong because he associates the correction with you. You want to erradicate the behavior, therefor you want the correction to be more environmental in nature. He merely learns any kind of aggression or intensity towards the cat = Stim. You can even put the cat in a carrier down in the middle of the room go hide in the next room or pretend to ignore him and stim on any kind of neg behavior. For now him avoiding the cat is good enough for your purposes.

Interesting study I once read on leerburg about training with treat vs prongs vs E collar. The goal was to prevent the dog from rushing the helper even when he was agitating at a distance and stay at the handlers side until verbally sent. This is obviously difficult for highly driven young dogs that view the decoy as prey.

Treat trained dogs rarely restrained themselves from attacking the helper.

Prong trained dogs had better success but their cortisol levels were measurably higher indicating a certain amount of stress when corrected.

E Collar trained dogs were more reliable then both above methods and their cortisol levels were measurably lower then the dogs on the prongs.

I believe the study authors felt the reason for lower cortisol levels and greater reliability was the dogs were more likely to consider the e collar correction an environmental consequence to their behavior instead of coming directly from the handler.

After he learns to leave the cat in the carrier alone, I would even release the cat while keeping him tethered on a loose lead and if he makes any move towards it stim. A running cat is much harder to resist then a stationary one.

Good luck let us know how it goes whatever you decide to do.
Interesting study. Well, I will hold off on that then. I am going to try and work this out, but if it comes down to it, I will be getting an e-collar. Thanks for the advice on the e-collar.
 
#43 ·
Katie, while my dog didn't want to "eat" our cats, it's been a struggle for me to get him to behave appropriately, mostly because when he was a wee pup, and smaller than this particular cat (who is a poly dactyl btw), he played rough with the kitty, and the kitty didn't care. Now that he's so big, the cat DOES care, but refuses to correct really. (He has meowed and Rocket immediately backed off but goes right back in). Because the cat won't "take care of it", it was very very very frustrating for me. (Rocket is respectful of cats who stand their ground and show him their claws).

I have been working with the ecollar and I did try the prong a couple of times. The response with the prong was not nearly as good as the ecollar. He actually barked and was more ramped up and I think, would've been much more frustrated or he was seeing the cat as somehow causing the "correction". I much prefer the ecollar, and I barely have to turn it past 14-15. If we're outside, and there's more enticing behavior, it might be much higher.

I use the low stim/training method with this, and reward good behavior and appropriate choices (turn back to me and come to me) with American Cheese, which is now proving to be more enticing that even the CAT!! I started with leash to show him what I wanted. It is a work in progress, but the cat can now hang out inside a bit, and Rocket is very good about not chasing him outside. He has not progressed to being outside without the ecollar and not chasing the cat, although we've had a couple of unplanned episodes and he HAS responded to me and come to me instead of chasing; I don't think that is cause to believe he's "done" though by any means. I would say that shows a bit of progress, is all.

The other day, though, he was outside on the back deck and hanging out. My daughter realized he wasn't laying there anymore so she got up to look and he was laying on the walkway from the main deck to my bedroom deck, and this cat (the one he LOVES) was laying calmly on the railing above him. They were both just hanging out. :)

Here is a picture from last night, Rocket is enjoying a small marrow bone as a treat for good "cat" behavior.

 
#45 ·
Glad Rocket is making progress! It helps to know I am not the only one who is in this situation. What type of e-collar do you have? I looked some up but there are SO many and they are so expensive. I wish Berlin would respect the kitties who show their claws, because he has been whacked in the eyeball by a paw full of claws already...Thanks for the advice, I guess the e-collar doesnt sound as bad as I thought. I'll admit, the thought of using one on my baby terrified me at first! How long have you been working with Rocket and the cats?... Btw, that picture is too cute!

Actually you brought it up....

"How do I find a trainer that could come to my house to help me work on this situation (AND teach my MOTHER HOW TO HANDLE IT?) My mother wont listen to me, and is frustrating me so MUCH!"

Rather than get frustrated at your mom then, it is time to try something different. Maybe a daycare you trust to follow your rules would be a better fit for your dog and for the cats?

Just trying to give a mom's perspective on it. I know if my 21 year old was trying to tell me how to raise a dog after my many years of experience I would be a tad on the miffed side. :)
The reason I said that was because she doesnt listen to me, when I'm the one who takes Berlin to the trainer and asks her for advice, and i'm the one who does hours and hours of research. :) I am going to be putting him in daycare once a week once he is neutered, to help her out and help this cat situation out. Just gotta find a good daycare...I've read horror stories about some! :eek: Anyways, I DO appreciate your mom perspective, and by no means am I trying to tell her how to do anything, I merely am trying to teach her what I learn through the trainer/researching, so we can both fix this situation.
 
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