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Old 02-10-2013, 08:30 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by harmony View Post
Do you crate your dog when you are not there? Does he get the right amount of exercise and something to chase an fetch when being played with? You know what he can and can not put his mouth on. I know I am not a real big cat person but I don't believe it is always the dogs fault. Trainers end up training people as much if not more then the dog . A no means no, and a reward means good, I have no inbetween. I really hope you can get this worked out. How old is your dog?
Yes, he is always crated when I am not home, or no one is able to watch him. He gets the right amount of exercise, and he has PLENTY of toys to chase and what not. Ordered him a flirt pole yesterday also, so that should help. This is not 100% the dogs fault, it is mine first and foremost, and somewhat the cats fault too. They know where their safe spot is...I have NO idea why the cat instead chose to run himself into a corner, when he ran RIGHT past the stairs that lead to the safe spot. Mieko just wants the dog to love him, and I wish they'd get along..We had good progress today, all I can do is take it one day at a time for now.

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From our experience, trainers usually have a facility or space that they train in, so we'd have to go to them. We hired a behaviorist and she wanted to come to our house to see the exact situation/environment that was creating the problems that needed correction. She understood that, if we met elsewhere, the problem might not be replicated exactly the same, so the solution wouldn't help when Nara was back at home acting up. I'd look for a behaviorist instead of a trainer, and you can always ask around for recommendations on who is good and who you should stay away from. People, from experience, might also know who makes house calls and who doesn't. Good luck!
Thank you! I'll look into behaviorists in the area.

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Originally Posted by codmaster View Post
Do you want /need to train him to leave them alone while you are with him OR the much more difficult job of training him to leave them alone while he is home with them without you there? (Not advised!)

I would think that a pro trainer (a good one!) should be able to convince a 7mo puppy that he cannot even look at your cats!
I want him trained when I AM with him, lol, he will always be in his crate when no one is home..or atleast until I have my own place and he is much older.

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Well all I can say is this would not happen at my house. I wouldn't agree to be caretaker while you are at work/school I flat wouldn't have the time. I have my own work and my own school and my own animals to care for. My kids could come home but they would have to find their own pet sitters or do it themselves.
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If my kids needed to come home, then of course I would be willing to take them in but I would expect them to train, raise, vet and keep control of any animals they bring with them. If op's mom had wanted a puppy, she would have gotten one, obviously she didn't. It is not fair for adult children to come home and then expect mom to follow directions on training a dog she didn't want in the first place. Mom has opened her home so daughter has a place to live now daughter has to do her very best to avoid disrupting mom's life and to not put the lives of her mom's cats at risk. It is simple common courtesy.
Shepherdmom, I appreciate your input, but it is a tad unfair to make assumptions about my home/personal life. When me getting a dog was in talks, I had planned on taking him to daycare when I was gone, but she offered to watch him. She actually loves him, and its HER choice to watch him. She has even joked (i hope) about wanting me to leave him with her when I move out. So dont assume that I got a dog and pushed this training and responsibility to watch him on to her. At any point, I could take him to day care. She really doesnt mind watching him, she enjoys having him around, and training him and what not. My mother does want a puppy, BUT, she does not have enough time to fully raise one. So she actually enjoys the fact that she gets to help raise mine.. And as for her training a dog she didnt want in the first place, she DID want him. I did not just go get a dog and bring him home without her permission, as it is her house. She allowed me to get a dog, and offered to help me out with him. I never asked her. As zivagirl said, different household different rules. If my mother did not want a dog, or allow me to have one, I wouldnt have my dog right now. If she didnt want to watch him while I was gone, he'd be in doggie daycare.

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Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg1 View Post
Honestly I wouldnt use the prong because he associates the correction with you. You want to erradicate the behavior, therefor you want the correction to be more environmental in nature. He merely learns any kind of aggression or intensity towards the cat = Stim. You can even put the cat in a carrier down in the middle of the room go hide in the next room or pretend to ignore him and stim on any kind of neg behavior. For now him avoiding the cat is good enough for your purposes.

Interesting study I once read on leerburg about training with treat vs prongs vs E collar. The goal was to prevent the dog from rushing the helper even when he was agitating at a distance and stay at the handlers side until verbally sent. This is obviously difficult for highly driven young dogs that view the decoy as prey.

Treat trained dogs rarely restrained themselves from attacking the helper.

Prong trained dogs had better success but their cortisol levels were measurably higher indicating a certain amount of stress when corrected.

E Collar trained dogs were more reliable then both above methods and their cortisol levels were measurably lower then the dogs on the prongs.

I believe the study authors felt the reason for lower cortisol levels and greater reliability was the dogs were more likely to consider the e collar correction an environmental consequence to their behavior instead of coming directly from the handler.

After he learns to leave the cat in the carrier alone, I would even release the cat while keeping him tethered on a loose lead and if he makes any move towards it stim. A running cat is much harder to resist then a stationary one.

Good luck let us know how it goes whatever you decide to do.
Interesting study. Well, I will hold off on that then. I am going to try and work this out, but if it comes down to it, I will be getting an e-collar. Thanks for the advice on the e-collar.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:42 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Shepherdmom, I appreciate your input, but it is a tad unfair to make assumptions about my home/personal life. When me getting a dog was in talks, I had planned on taking him to daycare when I was gone, but she offered to watch him...
Actually you brought it up....

"How do I find a trainer that could come to my house to help me work on this situation (AND teach my MOTHER HOW TO HANDLE IT?) My mother wont listen to me, and is frustrating me so MUCH!"

Rather than get frustrated at your mom then, it is time to try something different. Maybe a daycare you trust to follow your rules would be a better fit for your dog and for the cats?
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:43 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Katie, while my dog didn't want to "eat" our cats, it's been a struggle for me to get him to behave appropriately, mostly because when he was a wee pup, and smaller than this particular cat (who is a poly dactyl btw), he played rough with the kitty, and the kitty didn't care. Now that he's so big, the cat DOES care, but refuses to correct really. (He has meowed and Rocket immediately backed off but goes right back in). Because the cat won't "take care of it", it was very very very frustrating for me. (Rocket is respectful of cats who stand their ground and show him their claws).

I have been working with the ecollar and I did try the prong a couple of times. The response with the prong was not nearly as good as the ecollar. He actually barked and was more ramped up and I think, would've been much more frustrated or he was seeing the cat as somehow causing the "correction". I much prefer the ecollar, and I barely have to turn it past 14-15. If we're outside, and there's more enticing behavior, it might be much higher.

I use the low stim/training method with this, and reward good behavior and appropriate choices (turn back to me and come to me) with American Cheese, which is now proving to be more enticing that even the CAT!! I started with leash to show him what I wanted. It is a work in progress, but the cat can now hang out inside a bit, and Rocket is very good about not chasing him outside. He has not progressed to being outside without the ecollar and not chasing the cat, although we've had a couple of unplanned episodes and he HAS responded to me and come to me instead of chasing; I don't think that is cause to believe he's "done" though by any means. I would say that shows a bit of progress, is all.

The other day, though, he was outside on the back deck and hanging out. My daughter realized he wasn't laying there anymore so she got up to look and he was laying on the walkway from the main deck to my bedroom deck, and this cat (the one he LOVES) was laying calmly on the railing above him. They were both just hanging out.

Here is a picture from last night, Rocket is enjoying a small marrow bone as a treat for good "cat" behavior.

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Old 02-10-2013, 08:48 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zivagirl View Post
Different people, different rules. All we can do is suggest ways to help make things work. A far, I think there have been a lot of helpful suggestions.
Just trying to give a mom's perspective on it. I know if my 21 year old was trying to tell me how to raise a dog after my many years of experience I would be a tad on the miffed side.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:16 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Katie, while my dog didn't want to "eat" our cats, it's been a struggle for me to get him to behave appropriately, mostly because when he was a wee pup, and smaller than this particular cat (who is a poly dactyl btw), he played rough with the kitty, and the kitty didn't care. Now that he's so big, the cat DOES care, but refuses to correct really. (He has meowed and Rocket immediately backed off but goes right back in). Because the cat won't "take care of it", it was very very very frustrating for me. (Rocket is respectful of cats who stand their ground and show him their claws).

I have been working with the ecollar and I did try the prong a couple of times. The response with the prong was not nearly as good as the ecollar. He actually barked and was more ramped up and I think, would've been much more frustrated or he was seeing the cat as somehow causing the "correction". I much prefer the ecollar, and I barely have to turn it past 14-15. If we're outside, and there's more enticing behavior, it might be much higher.

I use the low stim/training method with this, and reward good behavior and appropriate choices (turn back to me and come to me) with American Cheese, which is now proving to be more enticing that even the CAT!! I started with leash to show him what I wanted. It is a work in progress, but the cat can now hang out inside a bit, and Rocket is very good about not chasing him outside. He has not progressed to being outside without the ecollar and not chasing the cat, although we've had a couple of unplanned episodes and he HAS responded to me and come to me instead of chasing; I don't think that is cause to believe he's "done" though by any means. I would say that shows a bit of progress, is all.

The other day, though, he was outside on the back deck and hanging out. My daughter realized he wasn't laying there anymore so she got up to look and he was laying on the walkway from the main deck to my bedroom deck, and this cat (the one he LOVES) was laying calmly on the railing above him. They were both just hanging out.

Here is a picture from last night, Rocket is enjoying a small marrow bone as a treat for good "cat" behavior.

Glad Rocket is making progress! It helps to know I am not the only one who is in this situation. What type of e-collar do you have? I looked some up but there are SO many and they are so expensive. I wish Berlin would respect the kitties who show their claws, because he has been whacked in the eyeball by a paw full of claws already...Thanks for the advice, I guess the e-collar doesnt sound as bad as I thought. I'll admit, the thought of using one on my baby terrified me at first! How long have you been working with Rocket and the cats?... Btw, that picture is too cute!

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Actually you brought it up....

"How do I find a trainer that could come to my house to help me work on this situation (AND teach my MOTHER HOW TO HANDLE IT?) My mother wont listen to me, and is frustrating me so MUCH!"

Rather than get frustrated at your mom then, it is time to try something different. Maybe a daycare you trust to follow your rules would be a better fit for your dog and for the cats?

Just trying to give a mom's perspective on it. I know if my 21 year old was trying to tell me how to raise a dog after my many years of experience I would be a tad on the miffed side.
The reason I said that was because she doesnt listen to me, when I'm the one who takes Berlin to the trainer and asks her for advice, and i'm the one who does hours and hours of research. I am going to be putting him in daycare once a week once he is neutered, to help her out and help this cat situation out. Just gotta find a good daycare...I've read horror stories about some! Anyways, I DO appreciate your mom perspective, and by no means am I trying to tell her how to do anything, I merely am trying to teach her what I learn through the trainer/researching, so we can both fix this situation.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:58 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Katie.....
I have multiple dogs and a cat....we even have "outside cats".
Some of my dogs could care less about the cats, and a couple would LOVE to "invite her for dinner".
We find the use of an E-collar a very effective tool in our "tool box". One must learn the proper way to "use" it, so that it is effective and FAIR.
Your dog is still very young.....he is a puppy still. He should be able to be taught what is APPROPRIATE behavior around the cat, and what is UNACCEPTABLE.
This is your job as the owner.
When you are not "in control" of the situation......put the dog/puppy away.
When you are not home.......put the dog/puppy away.
There are videos available on the use of the E-collar.....buy one and educate yourself.
Your mother has cats, and you have dogs...to live in the family home...there must be boundaries for your dogs.

YOU CAN DO THIS. Do not jump to the conclusion that you need to re-home your puppy......
I don't know where in Chicago you are located....but you can also call a training facility by the name of TOPS Kennel in Grayslake, Illinois. Ask to speak or leave a message for Jody, a very good friend of mine. Perhaps she can also help you.....there may be a class or personal training available.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:08 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I have a new model Dogtra Sure Stim. The handheld remote vibrates if you choose, to let you know when you're delivering the stim. I prefer that, because it helps with the timing in my opinion. Also he wears the collar only for training. It doesn't matter to me if he becomes collar smart, because I'm working on teaching him the behavior and using rewards. And the two times I've had good success with him outside unplanned, he wasn't wearing the collar so that tells me it IS working. Also, he is a happy dog. He runs to it when I put it on because he knows its training time!

Patience and consistency!
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Pretty inspiring actually I assumed all sorts would jump all over me for even suggesting the dreaded torture device E Collar!! Your getting some good advice on the potential benifits to the collar.
Just an fyi my first ever E Collar was a chinese knock off purchased online for $50. Worked quite well until the plastic part that holds the reciever to the collar snapped off not that I would recommend you get one if you can afford better. I know there are some mid range ones on amazon SportDog brand I believe for about $100-150. The reviews on them are decent.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:03 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Didn't read all the posts, but some dogs just do not "do" with some cats...

I have similar situation so have the Invisible Fence solution.
No more dog gates - Avoidance Areas, Indoor Dog Fence - Invisible Fence® Brand

It works! The cat now has her dog free area.

Good luck
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:57 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gsdlover91 View Post
The reason I said that was because she doesnt listen to me, when I'm the one who takes Berlin to the trainer and asks her for advice, and i'm the one who does hours and hours of research. I am going to be putting him in daycare once a week once he is neutered, to help her out and help this cat situation out. Just gotta find a good daycare...I've read horror stories about some! Anyways, I DO appreciate your mom perspective, and by no means am I trying to tell her how to do anything, I merely am trying to teach her what I learn through the trainer/researching, so we can both fix this situation.
My mother was just like yours. Wont take my word on ANYTHING until she consults with her sisters. LOL

It's wonderful that your mom loves your dog, btw.
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