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Kira charged a guest in my home

15K views 135 replies 45 participants last post by  Anthony8858 
#1 ·
*** I KNOW I'LL GET BADLY FLAMED FOR THIS, BUT I'LL TAKE MY LUMPS AS THEY COME***

Kira did something rather strange. It happened a few days ago, and I've been meaning to write about it. And once again, it involved her not being comfortable with people in my home.

Before I describe, I just want to say that she's been an absolute angel with guests. Very neutral, sniff and walk away. Generally paid no attention to anyone.

A few days ago, my wife had a female friend over. the woman was in my house at least 2 hours before anything happened.

Kira was sitting on her ottoman (completely out of sight), in the front portion of my house. She knew the woman was there, and was neutral.

My wife was with her friend, in the family room towards the rear of my house. As I mentioned, they were completely out of sight.
My 13 yr old daughter had an incident at school, and my wife, her friend, and my daughter were chatting in the family room. I was in the kitchen.

At one point, my 13 yr old had gotten a little teary eyed, and the woman got up from her chair, and walked over to console my daughter, and wipe her tears.
Without a clue, Kira bolted off her ottoman, came barking and charging. At first I thought she had seen her cat friend, but quickly realized that she went to neutralize the woman. She didn't nip, jump or bite. She charged, and stopped at the woman. I intervened, and removed her.

I was startled by this.
Could she have picked up the sound of my daughter's sniffles? There was no way Kira had a visual on her. There are lots of walls and turns separating the rooms.

It's getting to a point where I may have to crate Kira, whenever ANYONE is in my home. As great as she can be, she's apparently not too comfortable with people in my home. It's not the first time.
She's been fine for months. I never expected this.
 
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#3 ·
It is completely possible that she was picking up on the emotional state of everyone involved, no need to be in the same room. However, this friend was not a threat and so Kira's reaction was inappropriate as you already know.

Not much else to tell you that hasn't already been said in past threads. You know how to handle it. She needs to be managed in situations where you know she'll react, either by tethering her to you or removing her completely.
 
#4 ·
It is completely possible that she was picking up on the emotional state of everyone involved, no need to be in the same room. However, this friend was not a threat and so Kira's reaction was inappropriate as you already know.

Not much else to tell you that hasn't already been said in past threads. You know how to handle it. She needs to be managed in situations where you know she'll react, either by tethering her to you or removing her completely.
I was completely startled and caught off guard. I agree the reaction was inappropriate, and would I have to take measures going forward.
She's been so good. People come and go all day, never an issue.

I acknowledge, that she did go through something a while back, but I haven't any reason to believe that she would charge a guest.

I honestly think that she thought the woman somehow posed a threat. She came charging as soon as the woman touched my daughter's face.
 
#8 ·
There was absolutely NO WAY Kira had a visual on the woman and my daughter.

I don't doubt that Kira heard the new person move.

Dogs' hearing is insane. They can memorize what their owner's car or footsteps sound like coming to the door. Ozzy doesn't get excited at all when my mom comes home - pull in the driveway, open the garage, come in. Now when I come home, he goes NUTS.

Kira was probably listening in and heard your daughter crying, then she probably heard (what she thought) the woman advance, and she acted how she felt was necessary.
Obviously you know this was an inappropriate response, but I think people forget just how incredible our dogs' senses are sometimes.
I've been a good student for over a year, and this is another lesson learned.
I can honstly say that all indications are that Kira had an "ear" on this woman at all times. While that's absolutely incredible, it's also a warning not to take her calmness for granted. She could be sitting 40-50 feet away, completely out of sight, and still be guarding her territory.
Good in a sense that she protects her home, but bad that she protects it when I'm there, and without a clue or reason.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I don't doubt that Kira heard the new person move.

Dogs' hearing is insane. They can memorize what their owner's car or footsteps sound like coming to the door. Ozzy doesn't get excited at all when my mom comes home - pull in the driveway, open the garage, come in. Now when I come home, he goes NUTS.

Kira was probably listening in and heard your daughter crying, then she probably heard (what she thought) the woman advance, and she acted how she felt was necessary.
Obviously you know this was an inappropriate response, but I think people forget just how incredible our dogs' senses are sometimes.

I don't see why anyone would flame you for this. It sounds like Kira was being a typical protective German shepherd. Luckily no one was hurt, but let it be a learning experience. Even if she goes several months of being perfect, it only takes a split second for something to go wrong; it sounds like you've learned from this and will manage her accordingly.
 
#7 ·
I don't doubt that Kira heard the new person move.

Dogs' hearing is insane. They can memorize what their owner's car or footsteps sound like coming to the door. Ozzy doesn't get excited at all when my mom comes home - pull in the driveway, open the garage, come in. Now when I come home, he goes NUTS.

Kira was probably listening in and heard your daughter crying, then she probably heard (what she thought) the woman advance, and she acted how she felt was necessary.
Obviously you know this was an inappropriate response, but I think people forget just how incredible our dogs' senses are sometimes.
Okay this makes perfect sense. Hans can tell who is approaching by the sound of the footsteps at the front door, and he is penned in the back room of the house. I don't know what to tell you, Anthony.

Time and time again she has done things like this and you're always surprised.
I think it's time she's crated when people are over.
 
#11 ·
Wanted to add - when DH & I are in the kitchen getting our dinner ready Mauser will jump up on the couch on DHs side and lay down.

As soon as he HEARS DH walking out of the kitchen (the couch faces away from that door so he can't SEE it), he either moves over to MY side or jumps off.

(We usually eat at trays while sitting on the couch so we can watch tv. The dogs know this routine and Mauser knows I'm more apt to let him stay on the couch - even on my side - while we are eating. DH will ALWAYS tell Mauser to get off.)

Dogs can hear more things than we can imagine.
 
#17 ·
Have you done NILIF with her? I think that before throwing in the towel and crating her when people are over, it'd be good to tie her to you. That way she can still be out, but be safely secured to you and you can issue any praise/corrections as necessary.

I haven't been on the board much lately, so I'm not up-to-date with everything you've been trying, but if you can work with her on this safely, definitely try that before giving up. (And you don't seem like the give-up type).
Just remember it will likely be something you will ALWAYS have to manage and watch.
 
#18 ·
Anthony, is it normal behavior for Kira to be sitting in a seperate room away from the entire family? You were in the kitchen and Wife, Daughter & friend were in another room.
 
#22 ·
It seems, for Kira's own protection, she should be behind a closed door, crated or on lead when strangers are in the house. Period. As was said, the price is too high if she would bite someone.

As far as hearing - GSDs have phenomenal hearing ability. My Csabre will jump on the couch, and look out the window barking.....I look and 3 doors away, someone has come out of their house and is walking their Akita AWAY, not towards, my house. A cat crosses the street - and Csabre will alert on it...again this is 3 and 4 doors away - so at least 150 - 200 feet from my front door, with the door closed, with the TV or music playing. It never ceases to amaze me what she can hear....


It is unfortunate that you have to be so diligent with management, but it seems the safest course of action.

Lee
 
#23 ·
That's what I thought, lol. I was the same way. If someone had done that to me I'd have wanted to grab their arm and tell them to leave me alone. But she was being polite and held it back - except Kira knew. I don't think you can fault her for what she did, like it or not.
 
#24 ·
Nobody has asked about voices??? People are upset, their voices go up. You say your daughter didn't appreciate the gesture? What was her reaction? Did she loudly and angrily brush the woman off? Maybe even not loudly? I won't say that Kira acted inappropriately because maybe your daughter was acting like she was a threat at that moment and that is what Kira reacted to. I will second all others who say to manage her with crate, other room or on a leash when people are in the house.
 
#26 ·
Nobody has asked about voices??? People are upset, their voices go up. You say your daughter didn't appreciate the gesture? What was her reaction? Did she loudly and angrily brush the woman off? Maybe even not loudly? I won't say that Kira acted inappropriately because maybe your daughter was acting like she was a threat at that moment and that is what Kira reacted to. I will second all others who say to manage her with crate, other room or on a leash when people are in the house.
A complete oversight on my part. My daughter did raise her voice prior to the woman walking over. I didn't make the connection. The reason the woman walked over, is because my wife was telling her something my daughter didn't want to hear. She walked over, when my daughter started to get agitated.

I won't say she was loud, but she did change her emotion.
The woman wanted to console her.
 
#25 ·
It does go to show how sensitive your dogs hearing is.

I don't know the background on this female but I like her protection skills even if it wasn't needed in this circumstance.

My female(bullmastiff mix) is pretty sharp too. She doesn't bond with or trust strangers. She is still a great dog though.
 
#33 ·
Anthony8858;2905898 I do believe that your assessment about the emotions are accurate. It was an uneasy subject said:
I could easily read this part without using my crystal ball as I too have a daughter. Been there, done that.
 
#34 ·
Anthony "And once again, it involved her not being comfortable with people in my home." Things are not going to change with the dog . How many so far , the kids' guests, the party , now this . Crystal ball not needed to see that if you don't remove dog safely to crate or kennel or room with door closed that one day , she will get excited , pushed too far and bite . You were lucky you were there to stop her in the nick of time , lucky that the guest did not act in a way to get her more excited. Humans are emotional -- there will always be emotion - this dog can't handle it , so , you have to handle the dog , protect your guests, your dog , reduce risk and protect your assests against lawsuit and liability.
 
#36 ·
Didn't he say that she came in and then stopped and then he removed her?

That does make a difference, rather than "stopped her in the nick of time." because that means that she didn't go through with it and didn't have to be stopped.

HOWEVER, this is the point where I'd start keeping her in a different room.
 
#35 ·
1) it's a GSDs "job" to protect it's home and family
2) It's said that females are more "person oriented" to protect, and males tent to protect the home itself
3) It's our job as owners to be aware of that and help the dogs understand that this person isn't a threat.

How you choose to help dog be aware of that is up to you. Mainly we need to protect guests in our home, to some extent or another, that is, depending on the dog, the dog may need a crate, or to go outside, etc. Or may just need to be told, "Hey, pupper, this is Jane and she's a friend". It depends on the dog and how serious they are about their home/people.

My dad walked in one day without knocking. My GSD at the time grabbed his arm (bit him)...and stopped him. My dad turned swiftly and went out the door.

I told my dad, after all the adrenalin quit flowing, this is why we have a GSD. Don't just walk into my house!!
 
#37 ·
Crating anytime you have company is a BAD IDEA. I learned the hard way. The dog will start to hate people coming over knowing she will have to go to her crate. I would think twice about doing this. I have made this mistake and it completely changed my dog and he hated everybody that came over!!!!
 
#46 ·
" Why do we assume that since she wasn't trained in protection that her response was out of fear? "

because we have Anthony repeatedly writing about situations where the dog was reactive , uncertain , from the time the dog was a youngster, and because many people have warned him to take measures which will basically protect the dog from a bad situation .
 
#49 · (Edited)
" Why do we assume that since she wasn't trained in protection that her response was out of fear? "

because we have Anthony repeatedly writing about situations where the dog was reactive , uncertain , from the time the dog was a youngster, and because many people have warned him to take measures which will basically protect the dog from a bad situation .
Something I've been very diligent about.

OTOH....

I don't consider THIS a bad situation. Does she look stressed to you? LOL

This is exactly what she was doing, before responding to whatever got her going.

Honestly, how can one anticipate what took place, from the image below?
 
#47 ·
Anthony, this scenario plays itself out daily across our nation.
You tend to read way too much into Kira's actions, and over-analyze everything but her farts, or maybe you do that too.
But point is...she's a dog. She'll act like a dog.
You can put your info out here to be shredded, along with your behind, or you can take your toys and go home, which is personally what I'd do at this point.

You've been a good owner to Kira and you just need to be more aware that you have a GSD there, not a Maltese or whatever Coconut is.

If you're like me, you got a GSD to help protect the house, and you need to be aware of that fact.
Or even if you didn't...or perhaps especially if you didn't, you'd not think she'd want to do that, in spite of how you've raised and trained her. But that doesn't change the fact that our breed is bred to be suspicious.
 
#98 ·
Anthony, this scenario plays itself out daily across our nation.
You tend to read way too much into Kira's actions, and over-analyze everything but her farts, or maybe you do that too.
But point is...she's a dog. She'll act like a dog.
You can put your info out here to be shredded, along with your behind, or you can take your toys and go home, which is personally what I'd do at this point.

You've been a good owner to Kira and you just need to be more aware that you have a GSD there, not a Maltese or whatever Coconut is.

If you're like me, you got a GSD to help protect the house, and you need to be aware of that fact.
Or even if you didn't...or perhaps especially if you didn't, you'd not think she'd want to do that, in spite of how you've raised and trained her. But that doesn't change the fact that our breed is bred to be suspicious.
I'm with msvette here. I don't see anything wrong with this dog. Since I wasn't there I'm not going to nitpick her behavior or try to make assumptions about what exactly set her off, what her posture in the picture means, how long someone can be in the house before an incident happens, etc. Kira is a German Shepherd. Maybe she just doesn't like non-family members in her house especially when she can feel tension because of whatever incident happened with your daughter. I would not try to figure out *exactly* what sets her off or how long she can be free or where in the house she has to be in relation to guests. Just keep her away and she will probably feel better for it. She is young, right? I have a 4 year old dog that I kept apart from guests for almost 3 years. I never had any incidents but it didn't matter because most of my family and friends hate dogs, especially GSDs, so when they came over I crated him away from the action or put him outside. It's not fun for me to have guests over and have to tether a dog to me or have eyes on the back of my head. Now at 4 years old, the same dog lives completely crate free in the house and also is free when guests come and go and we've had no incident and no reason to believe my dog is a monster. You don't have to force these things or think that your dog is reactive or fearful or there's something wrong with her because she's a young dog that needs to be kept away from guests while she is maturing and learning her boundaries. And if she never accepts guests, well, I would not be all that surprised since we are talking about German Shepherds.
 
#53 ·
Hey, hey.... let's all get along.

I'd bet that 99.9% of every dog owner on this board, has had more than one incident that very much resembles 99.9% of everything I've written about.

I just enjoy putting it out there, and digesting whatever I can (and others) can learn from it.

You have NO IDEA how many "PM thank you messages" I get, for starting a topic others were afraid to admit.
It's all fine.

It's not easy to take one's description, and give an accurate evaluation of one's dog.

I'm sure I've made my dog seem awfully bad at times, when in fact, I've protected her from BECOMING awfully bad by asking questions.

I see right through the hearts of all the good intentions meant by each and every one of you. I would never pass judgement, based on a response to such a sensitive subject.
We're all dog lovers, and crazy by nature. It's OK.
 
#61 ·
1>>>> giving you points you're going lose that bet.

2>>>> thanking you for asking questions does does nothing
for training and being aware.

Hey, hey.... let's all get along.

1>>>> I'd bet that 99.9% of every dog owner on this board, has had more than one incident that very much resembles 99.9% of everything I've written about.

2>>>> You have NO IDEA how many "PM thank you messages" I get, for starting a topic others were afraid to admit.
 
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