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Old 02-13-2013, 06:53 PM   #121 (permalink)
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anthony I still think your a brave soul
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:55 PM   #122 (permalink)
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anthony I still think your a brave soul
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:09 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Anthony, I don't think you're a 'bad owner'. Nor do I think Kira is a 'bad' dog. Howver, without diligent management & oversight these incidents couold escalate to a truly bad outcome someday. PLEASE don't let that happen. You will have failed Kira big time if you do.

Years ago I had a Sibe that broke house training after another dog joined the household. Cochise was a tricky cuss & I finally in desperation began tethering him to me any time he wasn't confined. I thought he'd hate it b/c he was extremely active & liked almost constant movement. Surprisingly, he thrived on the additional 'attention' & I think decided that it elevated his status that I needed/wanted him with me at all times! Please, consider tethering her. You might find it much less bother than you expect it to be.

At this point, actively discourage protective tendencies/behavior. These qualities are not an asset in an easily stressed & anxious dog. I doubt she'll ever be a good candidate for even informal family protection. Despite that she can be a loving & enjoyable companion if you will help her to be the best that she can be.

Her behavior was (IMO) completely inappropriate & demonstrated a disturbing lack of judgment & discernment. The average dog understands emotional nuance & vibes much better than humans usually. Dogs who are well suited to protecting their people don't react to adolescent/teen annoyance, snarkiness or mild discomfort. They can distinguish b/w arguments, even loud, angry arguments & real threats. They're unfazed by childish squabbles.

The woman was a welcome guest in your home who'd been there at least 2 hrs before Kira went off. In all that you've described, I simply don't see a good reason for Kira to believe your daughter was threatened or in danger. Protective dogs, especially large, powerful dogs, simply MUST be clear headed & capable of impeccable judgment.

Becoming a bit watchful would have been appropriate. Going off on a welcome guest was not. Yeah, she stopped herself, but the fact is that she stopped behavior that should never have even begun in this particular situation. Frankly, that's not good enough.

Please don't take what I've posted as 'flaming you'. You can & should work diligently to protect this lovely girl that you obviously care a great deal about. Unfortunately, there seems to be a serious disconnect b/w your words & your actions. Kira NEEDS you to act in her behalf & see that she is protected from herself.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:07 AM   #124 (permalink)
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I had a bitch that was truly aggressive (not fearful, though) and a male that was everyone's best friend. My male would have done the same thing. Sorry, but I don't think it was inappropriate. Had her history NOT been on here, I feel the reaction to it would have been way different. You didn't have to say anything for her to stop, and there was a totally explainable reason for her to do this. This is a GSD. This is behavior I'd see as 'normal' in them.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:54 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Appropriate aggression & protective behaviors s/b applauded in a GSD. Regardless of Kira's history, (which is essentially unknown to me), I don't think her behavior falls within the realm of what s/b expected or tolerated. She stopped for unknown reasons. Equally unknown, & potentially more disturbing, is whether she'd stop in the future. IMO, a clear headed dog of solid judgment & discerning character would not have perceived a threat in the scenario Anthony described.

I suspect that Anthony is unwittingly encouraging her behavior rather than providing this girl with the clear leadership she needs to build confidence & assume her proper role in the family. Given her lack of confidence, her reactivity & how easily she stresses, I doubt that role is family protector. Nor is it likely that 'protection' will ever be a good fit for this girl. That does not make her a whit less loveable.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:49 AM   #126 (permalink)
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So this type of behavior could be typical?

Obviously something I need to be aware of.
Crating her when guests are over, is not a problem.
Makes sense.
It could be typical if she's not trained to do something different; its in their DNA to guard and protect. She really needs a reassurance stand-down command when she has made a decision that is not one you want her to make, or she's just learning by trial and error. There's no good place to go with it unless you work with her on this. And you're going to have to work on it often and consistently until it's second nature to her. Like daily.

I even have my fear aggressive shep now checking with me sometimes for the answer. Instead of barking insanely and slobbering all over the windows when someone is in the yard or pulls up, she now barks like a normal dog and comes to get me and herds me to the window to show me what she's barking at. If I can get a FA dog to do this, I think you can work on one that is guarding/protecting and needs some guidance. If you can't, get someone who can train you to train her.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:58 AM   #127 (permalink)
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so true Ruby Tuesday
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:27 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Honestly, I would join a Schutzhund Club and learn how to control her aggression and drives. It will be good for her and for you. And please don't say that a dog like her shouldn't do it. I believe a dog like her SHOULD do it and that she'd be under much better control that way.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #129 (permalink)
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I totally disagree Mrs K. The dog has fear . The BH would weed out unstable dogs and prevent them from going forward into bitework. When you join a SchH club "here" you are required to get your own insurance and sign a waiver releasing the club, the trainer , from any liability. I do not know what the situation is in Germany . This dog is already easily stimulated into a fear (aggressive) response , with people acting normally. The last thing you want to do is the make her more wary , raise suspicion and get rewarded for punching back . She will only be "under much better control" with Anthony's management . The dog can not self control her fear .
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #130 (permalink)
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I totally disagree Mrs K. The dog has fear . The BH would weed out unstable dogs and prevent them from going forward into bitework. When you join a SchH club "here" you are required to get your own insurance and sign a waiver releasing the club, the trainer , from any liability. I do not know what the situation is in Germany . This dog is already easily stimulated into a fear (aggressive) response , with people acting normally. The last thing you want to do is the make her more wary , raise suspicion and get rewarded for punching back . She will only be "under much better control" with Anthony's management . The dog can not self control her fear .

NO! That is NOT what I am saying! Training Schutzhund and titling a dog are two different things. Schutzhund, back in Germany, is also used to help dogs.

It has nothing to do with making the dog more weary or suspicious but everything to do with raising confidence and giving the handler the type of control he needs, over his dogs. There are many many many success stories about fearful dogs being worked in Schutzhund.

Again. Do not think about titles. You guys are so caught up in titling and weeding out weak dogs and this whole blah blah talk that you don't seem to see that the training itself can be very beneficial. Just Obedience and Tracking alone, will give him the tool he needs to control her, locking her away for the rest of her life, doesn't help her either and the people at a Schutzhund Club understand aggression and the type of behavior much better than some pet dog trainer.
There is a trainer who uses Schutzhund specifically to rehabilitate dogs and it works!

Last edited by Mrs.K; 02-19-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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