What does everyone think of this?(leerburg.com)

[SFGSSD]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

Clicker and Cookies have their place! If someone can't acknowledge that, than the person is just as ignorant as those who can't acknowledge the necessity of a well placed correction!

That is correct. I personally am so sick of the liberal extremists on this. Bottom line, EVERY method or tool has its place and is effective when matched with the right dog and or situation. The real ignorance is to push a point of view and boast that this one way is for every dog when I and a lot of other veteran professional dog trainers know better.


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[cliffson1]

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by SFGSSD

That is correct. I personally am so sick of the liberal extremists on this. Bottom line, EVERY method or tool has its place and is effective when matched with the right dog and or situation. The real ignorance is to push a point of view and boast that this one way is for every dog when I and a lot of other veteran professional dog trainers know better.


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Exactly!

[SFGSSD]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

Exactly!

Now can't we all just get along?

[RowdyDogs]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

Leerburg | Aggressive Dogs Q&A

It's a little past the halfway point on the page.

If you look at the list of questions at the page (which are links to the questions), it's number 30. I had to Crtl+F "goody-two-shoes" to find it. LOL

Hard dog or not, I don't think it is ever appropriate to hit a dog with a shovel, unless it is a matter of self-defense or breaking up a serious dog fight (so if she'd only hit the dog once, I'd even give her the benefit of the doubt). If she'd electrified the fence or used an e-collar or some other method of physical correction, I wouldn't bat an eye. But hitting a dog with a shovel comes with real risk of seriously injuring or killing that animal, particularly hitting it on the head.

I also question the inclusion of that story in that context, especially because it wasn't even all that relevant to the question. Even if this was an extremely hard dog and she knew what she was doing enough to not injure him (if that's possible when hitting a dog with a shovel), that's not going to describe most of the people who read that site and are dealing with fence aggression in their pet dogs.

I liked the rest of that answer, and I like her advice overall, but I'm a bit disappointed in that particular story.

[volcano]

I did some short research and this was a "killer dog" destined to die. So if hitting it witha shovel? worked...
I hope he hasnt hit alot of other dogs with shovels where it made them more aggressive...
I have a new pup and she wont be agressive, but I may title her in shutzund, she has it in her.

[GregK]

' "killer dog" destined to die' because of fence fighting with other dogs? Hardly a reason to put a dog down.

And the problem solved in 90 seconds???? Fascinating!

[SFGSSD]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

I liked the rest of that answer, and I like her advice overall, but I'm a bit disappointed in that particular story.

In all honesty, there are a lot of things that have been done and have been proven effective in the working dog world that made my jaw drop over the years. These things that are even practiced today are not something that is usually posted publicly so JQP can read up on it. Ed dared to post it so people that do not understand could freak out. Yeah I guess that was a bad call on his part but it does not change the truth when it comes to handling hard dogs that the emotionally driven trainer would not go near in there dizziest day dreams.
When I was a kid and learning the ropes I was always told that when it comes to training a hard dog your effectiveness is limited by your emotions, till you truly understand the consequences of those limitations you will not be ready to handle a hard dog effectively and safely in a training capacity. This was one of the many things I did not understand till I witnessed the good, the bad and the ugly first hand. The politically correct way of putting this is: you are preventing a liability if you succeed and you are giving this dog a chance at a productive happy life. If you fail, the dog was headed to the Vet to be put down before you even got to the dog, so you can leave knowing you truly did everything you could for the dog, the owners and for the general public.
When you can truly understand it is this or else, your emotions tend to shift as you understand that you are truly giving this dog one last chance. I don’t know about you but if I was a dog, I would choose something extreme over death any day of the week.
For the person that said he (Ed) recommended euthanasia to a lot of people. Did it occur to you that unless you are a professional in this field (in some cases even if you are) attempting these things may get you hurt if you don’t know what you are doing? Giving direct professional training advice that potentially can harm the inexperienced handler/trainer is a huge liability. Yeah I would say call a professional to deal with it hands on or put the dog down too.

[SFGSSD]

Originally Posted by GregK

' "killer dog" destined to die' because of fence fighting with other dogs? Hardly a reason to put a dog down.

And the problem solved in 90 seconds???? Fascinating!

Please don't take that out of context. He said "I have owned some nasty dogs in my life. I own a male right now that is as bad as anything I have ever seen - probably worse than anything most people will ever see in their life"
That coming from Ed means that dog was WAY WAY WAY more than just a fence fighter. Maybe you could show up with a clicker and a bag of hot dogs and try your luck with the dog
That alone solved the problem? Doubt it, but it sent a clear message approaching THAT Dogs threshold.

[julie87]

Originally Posted by SFGSSD

In all honesty, there are a lot of things that have been done and have been proven effective in the working dog world that made my jaw drop over the years. These things that are even practiced today are not something that is usually posted publicly so JQP can read up on it. Ed dared to post it so people that do not understand could freak out. Yeah I guess that was a bad call on his part but it does not change the truth when it comes to handling hard dogs that the emotionally driven trainer would not go near in there dizziest day dreams.
When I was a kid and learning the ropes I was always told that when it comes to training a hard dog your effectiveness is limited by your emotions, till you truly understand the consequences of those limitations you will not be ready to handle a hard dog effectively and safely in a training capacity. This was one of the many things I did not understand till I witnessed the good, the bad and the ugly first hand. The politically correct way of putting this is: you are preventing a liability if you succeed and you are giving this dog a chance at a productive happy life. If you fail, the dog was headed to the Vet to be put down before you even got to the dog, so you can leave knowing you truly did everything you could for the dog, the owners and for the general public.
When you can truly understand it is this or else, your emotions tend to shift as you understand that you are truly giving this dog one last chance. I don’t know about you but if I was a dog, I would choose something extreme over death any day of the week.
For the person that said he (Ed) recommended euthanasia to a lot of people. Did it occur to you that unless you are a professional in this field (in some cases even if you are) attempting these things may get you hurt if you don’t know what you are doing? Giving direct professional training advice that potentially can harm the inexperienced handler/trainer is a huge liability. Yeah I would say call a professional to deal with it hands on or put the dog down too.

I never thought of it this way. That its either extreme training to try and fix the dog or put the dog down because of major liability. If I had to chose of course I would rather get beaten and live than die. Although i would never have the guts to hurt my dog... but you made a really good point!


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