What does everyone think of this?(leerburg.com)

[Zisso]

when my dogs are fence fighting, I grab a plastic jug that has rocks in it, shake it, and they stop. No rhyme or reason to it, other than one time when they were actively fighting with each other, I shook it and didn't get their attention so I threw it at them. I did not do so gracefully either...landed flat on my face, I threw it with such force. I think the shock of seeing me fall on my face shocked them into responding and they link it to the shake of the jug.

[jocoyn]

The shovel is definitely extreme but how you deal with agression needs to take into account the SOURCE of the agression with the first thing step if this is new, a medical exam to make sure there is not a problem (thyroid being a common cause)

[msvette2u]

I'd also like to say, fence fighting is extremely common. I deal with it by avoiding having it occur.

[jocoyn]

Is this dog fence fighting or is it something else? I know the example from Leerburg was fence fighting but I the OP did not state her own issue.

FWIW I never thought Ed Frawley was a famous dog trainer, not by a long stretch.

Just a shrewd businessman who makes a lot of training DVDs with well known good dog trainers. His own ramblings have shown an acceptance over the years of things like marker training. He seems to have lost a LOT of folks on his forum, though - it used to be a very busy place with a lot of working dog people, but a lot of people left because if he did not agree with you, you were kicked off and it seems to be more "pet people" now.

[Cassidy's Mom]

Not fence fighting: My dog doesn't fight back

[martemchik]

If you really want to compare training styles, train and then compete. When you compete you'll generally go to other kennel clubs and see people that train at that club. You'll really be able to assess how well their training philosophy is working.

I was just at a show. Met a lady that taught at one of the better training facilities in my area but they are strictly positive reinforcement...and I mean only positive. You're not even allowed to say "no." Her dog did well (it wasn't a shepherd) but it wasn't even a competition as how well/fast/enthusiastic the work was done (this was a rally excellent trial). I've seen dogs trained in many different ways, I try to ask people how they trained exercise X when I see their dog doing a very good job of it. I've gotten 10 different ways of teaching different things, and I take them all and see which one works best for my dog.

Would I ever hit my dog on the head with a shovel? No! But I have no problem giving him a smack on the muzzle, or grabbing him by the scruff. Would I do it to anyone else's dog? Never! Would I recommend it to anyone? Not unless I've seen them work their dog, see their dog work, and come to a conclusion that their dog can handle that without completely shutting down.

By the way...the lady I became friends with, her dog decided to just go off and sniff everything in the ring on our last day there. At one point, she was at a halt and the dog sat down and scratched itself for a good 30 seconds. Stuff that I would never allow, and my training place makes me correct. A quick/easy pop with a prong collar to get the dog's head off the ground, or catching it before it completely starts scratching. I'm sure you can teach a dog to not sniff with other methods, but this one works best for me, where as the lady was trying to lure her dog with treats all the time and its clear she doesn't have that big of a food drive.

[JohnD]

Wonder if he has children???
Poor kids...

[San]

Leerburg has tons of information on dog training. Some of the information is outdated, even Ed Frawley admitted it himself, but he left the info on his website anyway. Ed Frawley didn't use to believe in marker training until recent years so it really depends on how old the information is.

[robk]

I've read many things written by Mr. Frawley over the years. I don't like or dislike him. I just don't agree with many things he says. However, he has owed many very hard dogs and has learned how to deal with them in his own way. I could never bash the head of a living creature with a shovel, but that is just me.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

The shovel is definitely extreme but how you deal with agression needs to take into account the SOURCE of the agression with the first thing step if this is new, a medical exam to make sure there is not a problem (thyroid being a common cause)

The shovel is not a new thing... or a food bowl, Broomstick... people used anything and everything available "back then".