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I need Help ASAP

17K views 155 replies 27 participants last post by  debbiebrown 
#1 ·
My wife and myself are at our wits end. This forum is one of our last hopes for our GSD. I will keep things brief but as informational as possible.
My house consists of 4 dogs.
1 Chocolate lab- lazy and older male. 100 lbs. owned since puppy.
2. GSD- owned 1 year, was a rescue. is probably close to 3 yrs old. Female
3. yorkie- 6 lbs male.
4. Golden retriever brown- female, less than a year old. 45 lbs probably.

These dogs have been together for at least a year and have had no issues, other than typical dog issues, fighting over a bone or a toy. Nothing major.
all the dogs play together, romp and run through the house.

One night about 3:30am the retriever walked down the hallway and the GSD just flat attacked her. We burst out of the bedroom split them up. The retriever ran and hid, the GSD was just angry and we separated them for the rest of the night until later in the morning. When they got back together they played and were fine the entire day. That evening the retriever was in the kitchen eating. The GSD was in another room, she saw my wife walk out of the kitchen and she charged in and attacked the retriever again... same deal broke them up, retriever ran and hid. the retriever isnt even trying to be dominant. She immediately submits.
Other facts- The GSD loves our yorkie, she even helps feed him out of her own food bowl.
She does not get aggressive over toys. She doesnt really play with them.
When she goes out to pee she will find where the retriever pee'd and cover it with her own.
She does not like the retriever to come inside from being outside before she does. If i open the door they come running but the GSD will always charge her and make sure she doesnt get to the door first.
We spoke with a GSD specific trainer, he does things for the police etc. He said it was a female vs female dominance thing, he suggested the GSD would have to find a new home with no female dogs. FFW we found a home, husband wife, 2 kids, 1 male yorkie. Figured it would be great. 15 acres to run on etc. The GSD has been there a few days everything has been fine. We get a call today that the GSD nearly killed their yorkie after they walked out of the house. They returned the dog to us, saying otherwise she was a great dog. So now it is not a female vs female thing.
We dont know what to do aside from putting her in a home where she is the only dog is putting her to sleep the only solution?
 
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#146 ·
No one has been rude. We've all offered you the best advice there is given the information that we have. Your dogs are not children as much as you feel like they are. Your dogs deserve not to live in fear of an attack or at a high level of anxiety all the time.

I recommend getting a second opinion from another behaviorist. Just because one calls themself a trainer/behaviorist doesn't mean they are worth the paper their business card is written on. If you believe your vet and behaviorist are right, then listen to them and follow their instructions.

There is nothing that strangers on the internet can add that will magically make it better when we are not able to witness the behavior.
 
#148 ·
Dawn. I'm sorry if you feel we're "rude" but your last post specifically asked for suggestions.

And we gave them, then. The below post is full of...not sure how to say it..."bad advice" is the best I can do.
The only bit of advice from this that's usable is "walk them daily".

You can't make a dog not be fearful. You can't make a dog be less aggressive to another dog.
Dogs are what they are - they are dogs. They are not kids and they don't have moral codes like "don't hurt your sister".

And anti-depressants can make aggression worse, and at best, take 30 days to work, which leads me to suspect your trainer/behaviorist doesn't know what she/he is talking about with regards to Prozac.

In light of all the above and everything else posted, the best advice and "suggestions" we all seem to have is "rehome one of the dogs" and we also seemed to agree overall that the most rehomable one is the Golden puppy.

It's been a few days since we have posted any updates on the status of our GSD situation. We have been working with our vet and an animal behaviorist about our situation. The behaviorist is suggesting that we put our GSD on Prozac temporarily, so that we are able to work with the dogs together easier. The behaviorist says that the GR submission to the GSD is out of fear and that fear is making the GSD more aggressive or feeding her aggression. They are suggesting that we keep the GSD on the Prozac for about a week before putting the two dogs back together. Then they are suggesting that we leash both of the dogs and slowly put them back together, not allowing the GSD to be aggressive or the GR to be fearful of the GSD. They say that we need to walk them together (one person to each dog) with a close leash at first and then letting the leash out more and more until they can be around each other without issues. This seems like the best plan that we have been able to come up with so far, any thoughts? Suggestions?
 
#150 ·
if you love your dogs like you love your children and treat them as such, then do the right thing and rehome the golden puppy... true love is doing what is RIGHT for the dog- no matter what.... if you own a dog you have a responsibility to keep the dog SAFE.... just like you have a responsibility to keep your child safe..... you will be shocked when the older dog kills the younger dog, and you will blame the older dog..... it isnt the dogs fault, either of them... you have a responsibility to keep the dogs separate until you rehome the puppy. and yes, get another opinion from another vet and behaviorist.. what the ones you have now are tellling you is going to get the golden pup killed.... just contact golden retriever rescue and give up that puppy before you ruin its temperment with the older dog bullying it or getting it killed.... and until you do KEEP BOTH DOGS SEPARATE BEHIND GATES and dont let them interact... period... keep them separate 24/7....
 
#151 ·
I am also thinking that the GSD is highly stressed if she is being kept alone in the basement while the others are allowed to be upstairs with the pack.

And on the occasions she does get to be upstairs, she wants to get rid of the Golden so she can rejoin her family.

How do you think it is working for you and the dogs, keeping them all? Are you happy with the atmosphere and the situation?
 
#153 ·
The GS doesn't always stay in the basement. She is upstairs with us too and has been for the last 15 days all the time except for dinner time, which we did trying to keep aggressive behavior in check. Before working with the vet and behaviorist, we were keeping the GR in her crate while the GS was upstairs and would rotate them out of the crate during the day every couple of hours. Then at dinner and bedtime the GS would go downstairs. They have all done very well lately until tonight. I am not sure what happened. Like my husband said, it wasn't a bad fight or anything, but it was enough to get your heart rate up a little. I do hate it that we have to keep them all separate, but around here where we live shelters and rescues are not the best answer either. People around here have told me to shoot my GS and be done with it...that's not an option..
 
#154 ·
No one here has said to shoot any dog. Each and every time you have a dog fight, the shepherd is becoming more and more comfortable with attacking the other female. In reality, you're allowing her to become more aggressive and more unstable because of the situation. At the same time, your poor pup on the receiving end is living in terror each and every day. Her stress must just be incredibly high. I'm sorry, but this is cruel. I'd be surprised if this pup doesn't end up dog aggressive. Can you see that your "love" for your dogs is harming them?? This is a situation that is creating two problem dogs... possibly for the rest of their lives. It's not fair to them. If you really want to do what's best, then you have GOT to re-home one of the two dogs. Also, your child IS in danger, whether you choose to see it or not. One of these days, your females are going to get into a fight and your child is going to get caught in the middle of it. I am seriously afraid for your child. I'm also afraid for your female pup. Sooner or later, that pup is going to end up needing serious medical attention or be killed.

I KNOW that you think it's best to keep all your dogs. I also know you believe that your child won't be hurt. You're not looking at this objectively. You have several people here all agreeing that your pup is in danger and is living in constant fear. This isn't healthy. It isn't a good life for this pup. I don't see it getting any better. You cannot keep her safe, because the attacks are still happening. You've got to get to a point (before she's seriously injured) of realizing that letting her go is the best thing you could ever do for her. THEN you've got to get control of your shepherd. Your GS is going to continue the attacks as long as the pup is in your home. I'd expect them to get worse with age. PLEASE realize that when dogs fight like this, they aren't acting normally. If a person happens to be in the way, they WILL get bit!! Your child is in danger with these two being in your home together. Our children have to be protected... even if it's from dogs we love. Your child is small. The fights are likely traumatizing to the child, also. This child has no way to protect itself from fighting dogs. You have three beings that NEED a change in your home for their own safety and happiness. Not acting right away to change the situation is beyond my understanding. Sometimes we have to do things we don't really want to do. We have to not be selfish and think about the mental and physical well being of others and acknowledge when things are beyond our capabilities. Please, please, please re-home one of those females!
 
#155 ·
I have broken up a number of bitch fights. I also babysit a couple of six year old girls (not generally at my house). I would NEVER want those girls to witness a bitch fight. Right now you have a girl who is maturing and is not a good candidate for living with other females. To this point, the fights have not been that serious. This can escalate, and if it does there is a danger to your child.

No, dog aggression does not mean human aggression. But when dogs are fighting, people often get bitten, usually trying to break them apart. Sometimes, a dog will bite anything else if it is pulled away from the object of its hatred. They call this misdirected aggression.

I agree that the stress level is not healthy for the dogs or the people involved. It would be much better to find a good home for one of the girls, and let your household enjoy what a dog brings to a home, a lowering of blood pressure, and a great loving companion to all the people. Right now your daughter is learning that dogs are scary. That alone would be reason enough for me to rehome one.
 
#156 ·
in my opinion human aggression and dog aggression can go hand in hand all depending on the dog, genetics, etc. not always but it does happen. especially if the dog hasn't been socialized properly. i am not sure if this is same sex aggression or there is more going on. it could be a dominant thing, or just lack of direction and not being corrected for bad behviors. hard to say without seeing it. but, if the OP's don't feel they have the time to get the dog evaluated and do some training and taking alot of time to observe and correct it might be better to rehome in the right place. it would take a home that someone would be qualified to work with this dog etc. there are alot of dogs in this home and with multiple dogs it takes even more work to make sure things run smoothly. tough decision for sure.........
 
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