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Old 12-28-2012, 09:51 AM   #111 (permalink)
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IMO, if this is just a case of resource guarding, then yes you could fix this. However, you need to get a good trainer involved! You don't need to go every week as money seems to be an issue but you do need to go. I typically go every 3 weeks (well...before Jax got hurt and had surgery).

You do need to stop projecting human actions and feelings onto the dogs. It's highly unlikely that Nala "deliberately waited" for you to leave the room. It's more likely that you missed the signals she was sending out. In fact, you leaving the room may have been the trigger and it has nothing to do with food if, say, the GR was between the door and Nala. You also need to keep in mind that it takes a couple of weeks for the stress hormones to leave their bodies after a fight. so the second fight may have just been because of the stress hormones keeping Nala in high gear. We were having fights between our GSD and youngest Boxer constantly but after the GSD and I went to see family for a couple of weeks, something reset in the Boxers brain and we haven't had one since May.

But you need a trainer to come in and evaluate the dogs. This could be SSA, resource guarding or something else. If you want to keep Nala, you need a professional to eval what is going on between these dogs.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #112 (permalink)
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The likely reason for the fighting now when it hasn't been an issue before is the age of the GR. She no longer gets a 'puppy pass' from the GSD. She may also be an instigator and you're missing the signals. Let me give you a 'for instance'. We have an older (fixed) female, and a now 2 year old (fixed) female pug. All was well until Grim (GSD) came home as an 11 week old pup. The older female ignored him or 'warned' him to stay away from her. The Pug considers him 'hers'. They've gotten into some nasty sounding 'scuffles' over him and some of his 'coveted' toys. Although my pug has always been a toy thief (the older dog doesn't care about toys at all), it's now an issue because the 'puppy pass' is gone. It has taken careful management of toys, space, and Grim to manage this. They get along like 2 peas in a pod, until they don't. They are best buddies minutes after a scuffle, too. It's an odd situation, but there it is. I believe that the main thing triggering the fights that weren't there for the first year is the pug is no longer a puppy in the older dogs' eyes. Her puppy pass is gone.

Grim's coveted toys have to be put away when he's not playing with them, and the older dog is finally over her 'warning' Grim all the time...so the pug doesn't have to be in 'protective mode' over "her" puppy.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:13 PM   #113 (permalink)
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The 'puppy pass' I think hits it on the head.
We finally have some sunshine out today so i am going to take nala up on our hill to play some.
we got a basket muzzle in hopes we could bring them together and if a fight broke out there would be no damage and we could correct it. But it just totally stressed Nala out more (was rubbing that bite mark near her eye) and we didnt think stressing her would help much.
I work with nala and she is a quick learning, I need a way to get her to 'instant focus' if that makes sense. She minds me well unless there is a distraction, like a cat or something. she knows sit, shake, lay down, if she is in the kitchen and I say 'out' and point all the dogs know to leave. If I am at the top of the stairs and Nala tries to come up I say "no" and point and she lays down. She learns fast I just dont know were to start on really driving things home I guess. Ill check around this site later today and see what I can learn. She loves praise so I think that will be best. She does well with routines and really seeks to please us.
I think my wife is okay with finding Bella a new home as long as we can mend the trust issue and ensure Tink (our yorkie) would be safe. How can we start building that trust again?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:28 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Do not feed together. That's a trigger.
Feed separately IN CRATES. Give them plenty of crate time in between exercising.

DO NOT Leave them alone together.
If you see the slightest indication - this will require you to be extremely vigilant and know dog body language - that one is going to attack, intervene before it starts with a "HEYYY!!! That's ENOUGH!!!"

Do not leave toys out that can be guarded.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:29 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Do not feed together. That's a trigger.
Feed separately IN CRATES. Give them plenty of crate time in between exercising.

DO NOT Leave them alone together.
If you see the slightest indication - this will require you to be extremely vigilant and know dog body language - that one is going to attack, intervene before it starts with a "HEYYY!!! That's ENOUGH!!!"

Do not leave toys out that can be guarded.
Do you mean dont feed ANY of the dogs together or just Nala and Tink (yorkie) ?
We will have to pick up the toys then.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:34 PM   #116 (permalink)
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You can feed separately. With the existing tension things may go south.

BUT - how do you normally feed them?? Is there food always out?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:40 PM   #117 (permalink)
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You can feed separately. With the existing tension things may go south.

BUT - how do you normally feed them?? Is there food always out?
in the evening 4 bowls go down, sometimes Nala and sebastian wait till later at night to eat, Bella is usually a good eater. Nala usually takes food out of her bowl and gives it to tink.
They have all always eaten in the kitchen together. Food isnt always available. Sebastian is the only one who has ever been food aggressive, but he never fights just tries to act really mean and hog the food.
Nala acts like she could care less most of the time. Almost like she would rather eat ever other day or something.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:41 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Please refresh my memory. I am running on the idea that the GR is 9-10 months old? That screams SSA moreso than puppy pass. The puppy pass usually disappears at 4.5-5 months old. And then it is not a bloody scrimmage. it is usually a snarl and maybe something that sounds terrible but no blood whatsoever. The behavior of the puppy on the receiving end, might be what you described.

Frankly, I think that so long as you have two bitches in your home, you are going to have a heightened/charged atmostphere. Some bitches, once there is blood, look for any opportunity to get to the other bitch. Some bitches can go several months, and then someone walks too close to the other, brushes them the wrong way and someone punishes, someone retaliates, and it is on. Sometimes when a dog is in attack mode, and are separated, they will redirect that aggression on the person separating, or on whatever walks by. Living with two females that do not get along is not for most pet owners.

My vet has Jack Russels, and every so often he has to come in and get antibiotics, etc, when they get into it. Someone who has one of my boys, has two bitch littermates, and their dam; every so often they tussel, and every joins in. A tiny dog would not have a prayer in that scenario.

I know this is not what you want to hear. But if the bitch pup goes away, and you give your girl a few WEEKS to get normal again, you can probably have the same harmony you had in your home before this issue cropped up. If the bitch pup stays, it is probably just a matter of time, regardless to how many behaviorists, trainers, NILIF, etc. that you try.

Every time you bring a bitch into a home with another bitch, there is a possibility that they will have to be totally separated down the line. Some breeds are worse for SSA. They say that dogs fight for breeding rights, bitches fight for breathing rights. Personally, I think you can generally get two dogs to live together. Some people will even give the advice to sit back and let them figure it out. Don't do that with bitches, because you might be burying one and having to put the other down.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:46 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Quote:
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in the evening 4 bowls go down, sometimes Nala and sebastian wait till later at night to eat, Bella is usually a good eater. Nala usually takes food out of her bowl and gives it to tink.
They have all always eaten in the kitchen together. Food isnt always available. Sebastian is the only one who has ever been food aggressive, but he never fights just tries to act really mean and hog the food.
Nala acts like she could care less most of the time. Almost like she would rather eat ever other day or something.
Make sure you're there supervising though the meal. If someone starts eyeing someone else's food, stop it before it starts.
Pick up any food that's "left over",. do not leave them alone together in the room.

There's a ton of info here - Can We Help You Keep Your Pet? Other Animals
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:48 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Bella is probably 11-12 months old now.
Full grown (not getting any bigger) but still very much puppy minded.
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