I need Help ASAP - Page 11 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-26-2012, 06:27 PM   #101 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony8858 View Post
I can't offer advice, but your dog's reaction to you, very well could have been the same response to your GR in the middle of the night. Now your GSD smells blood.

I'm not going to comment on turning off aggressiveness or on. That'll be addressed by others. I will say that that's not good.

Freestep, and I think Selzer mentioned getting rid of the GR. Based on what you describe, it doesn't seem like your GSD has an issue. I do believe that your GSD has an issue with the GR.
As far as the Yorkie, well.. that could happen t any dog in that situation. I would NEVER leave a new GSD alone in that situation. The Yorkie could have gotten aggressive towards your GSD, and the GSD responded.
you say that what is not good? My wife is not opposed to finding GR a new home, but she first has to be completely sure she wont attack our yorkie, how can we establish that? My wife already has trust issues in general and I dont know how to re-work this situation.
I think she has the issue with the GR as well. GR is getting mature and Nala isnt having anyone getting in on her 'piece of the pie' right now. I dunno what to do but I think one or both need to go.
savage22 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-26-2012, 08:53 PM   #102 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 24,850
Default

I really think you are dealing with Same Sex aggression. I think any dog that was in a strange place and thrown together with a strange dog might have a less than positive experience. Why does your dog have bite marks? Maybe the Yorkie attacked her. Maybe she retaliated, and I think it is pretty interesting that the Yorkie is still alive. All a GSD needs to do to kill a tiny dog like that is a bite and a quick shake.

But there is no one on the internet or off that can guaranty the safety of your Yorkie. It's just not possible. Your old dog might get a tumor and suddenly attack the little dog. It can happen. The GR pup might decide the Yorkie is no fun anymore and decide to squash him. If you want to be 100% certain there will never be a problem with the tiny dog, then you need to get rid of all three dogs.

It sounds like the GSD is more suspect because it has a history now. That will make a big difference to people who did not know this dog when it was an endearing puppy. But any of your dogs put into that situation might have reacted as bad if not worse. They have just not been tested.
__________________
Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Gretta
Hepzibah & Hannah
selzer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2012, 09:00 PM   #103 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
I really think you are dealing with Same Sex aggression. I think any dog that was in a strange place and thrown together with a strange dog might have a less than positive experience. Why does your dog have bite marks? Maybe the Yorkie attacked her. Maybe she retaliated, and I think it is pretty interesting that the Yorkie is still alive. All a GSD needs to do to kill a tiny dog like that is a bite and a quick shake.

But there is no one on the internet or off that can guaranty the safety of your Yorkie. It's just not possible. Your old dog might get a tumor and suddenly attack the little dog. It can happen. The GR pup might decide the Yorkie is no fun anymore and decide to squash him. If you want to be 100% certain there will never be a problem with the tiny dog, then you need to get rid of all three dogs.

It sounds like the GSD is more suspect because it has a history now. That will make a big difference to people who did not know this dog when it was an endearing puppy. But any of your dogs put into that situation might have reacted as bad if not worse. They have just not been tested.
I agree completely. they still arent sure if the yorkie will live, they suspect it will though. I wouldnt have given Nala to them if I thought that would ever be a possibility. such a pain this year has been.
savage22 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2012, 09:41 PM   #104 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 24,850
Default

If they had introduced the dogs properly, and then let the new dog settle in for a period, supervising completely when they were together, this may have never happened. I do not fault you on this. Your dog DID get along with both of your males, and one was a very small dog.

And, really SSA -- I don't think the blame is on you on that either. Some bitches, do not get along with some other bitches. Usually SSA does not translate to dog outside of the pack.

For instance, Ninja -- the idiot bitch of mine who crashed open the crate and jumped Jenna and got her clock cleaned. Well she needed to go to the vet about a month prior to this altercation. She had a hematoma on her ear and they had to do surgery on it and, then we went back and the gals pulled a drain out of the ear. And then we went back again and the boy pulled the stitches out -- no sedation (save for the surgery itseslf), no muzzles, no aggression. I was so pleased with her after the last visit that we stopped at the park.

I saw a car there, so I went in the woods with her on lead. Coming back across the soccer field, there was a Yorkie-mix in the field with his person up under the pavilion. I am thinking long line, or flexi-lead, and kept on. As we got closer to the dog, it was barking and coming, and it was apparent that there was no lead. OK. I told Ninja, LEAVE IT, and then HEEL, and heel she did, while this thing circled barking and lunging. She totally ignored it, while I was telling her owner to get it under control. Finally I got to my car, and got it unlocked while this monster was still trying to eat us. And I got Ninja in the car.

The dog NEVER aggressed toward the aggressive dog. Why? Because it isn't in her pack and in her opinion is no threat at all to her. Maybe my singular Leave It, and Heel had the impression, but that would really be a shocker. Ninja fights with bitches in her pack, usually those ranking high enough to interest her. She hates Heidi. Usually she is ok with Jenna, until the day she wasn't. But it does not even translate to outside (of the pack) dogs.

So it would really be a shame for this dog to lose its life because of a couple of moves and changes that might not have needed to happen.
__________________
Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Gretta
Hepzibah & Hannah
selzer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2012, 12:46 AM   #105 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
If they had introduced the dogs properly, and then let the new dog settle in for a period, supervising completely when they were together, this may have never happened. I do not fault you on this. Your dog DID get along with both of your males, and one was a very small dog.

And, really SSA -- I don't think the blame is on you on that either. Some bitches, do not get along with some other bitches. Usually SSA does not translate to dog outside of the pack.

For instance, Ninja -- the idiot bitch of mine who crashed open the crate and jumped Jenna and got her clock cleaned. Well she needed to go to the vet about a month prior to this altercation. She had a hematoma on her ear and they had to do surgery on it and, then we went back and the gals pulled a drain out of the ear. And then we went back again and the boy pulled the stitches out -- no sedation (save for the surgery itseslf), no muzzles, no aggression. I was so pleased with her after the last visit that we stopped at the park.

I saw a car there, so I went in the woods with her on lead. Coming back across the soccer field, there was a Yorkie-mix in the field with his person up under the pavilion. I am thinking long line, or flexi-lead, and kept on. As we got closer to the dog, it was barking and coming, and it was apparent that there was no lead. OK. I told Ninja, LEAVE IT, and then HEEL, and heel she did, while this thing circled barking and lunging. She totally ignored it, while I was telling her owner to get it under control. Finally I got to my car, and got it unlocked while this monster was still trying to eat us. And I got Ninja in the car.

The dog NEVER aggressed toward the aggressive dog. Why? Because it isn't in her pack and in her opinion is no threat at all to her. Maybe my singular Leave It, and Heel had the impression, but that would really be a shocker. Ninja fights with bitches in her pack, usually those ranking high enough to interest her. She hates Heidi. Usually she is ok with Jenna, until the day she wasn't. But it does not even translate to outside (of the pack) dogs.

So it would really be a shame for this dog to lose its life because of a couple of moves and changes that might not have needed to happen.
I agree. I would love to work with Nala more on training such as yours displayed I just have no idea where to start. Nala only cares for one specific treat. anything else she spits out or doesnt bother.
Tink always instigates, when we let a dog in from being outside he immediately runs up and barks/nips at them. none of them mind at all.
savage22 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2012, 06:57 AM   #106 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Anthony8858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by savage22 View Post
I agree. I would love to work with Nala more on training such as yours displayed I just have no idea where to start. Nala only cares for one specific treat. anything else she spits out or doesnt bother.
Tink always instigates, when we let a dog in from being outside he immediately runs up and barks/nips at them. none of them mind at all.
Please don't take what I'm about the say, the wrong way.

The highlighted comment above, may be more indicative of the problem, than the dogs themselves.

I've had my GSD dog for about 15 months. I immediately joined this forum, and started to ask questions. I have made a TON of mistakes, and put myself and my dog in numerous bad situations.
Needless to say, owning my dog has been a handful, and a tremendous learning experience.

In your case, I think the GR put you above your threshold. I think your little pack with the older Lab, Yorkie and GSD were fine. The GR probably has high energy, and as a puppy was accepted (regardless of same sex). A lot of older dogs don't have the patience for a high energy pup.
However, the GR is now getting older, and as Selzer said, there may be a same sex issue going on.

I think you need to re-home the GR. It's still young, and wont be too hard to find a suitable home.
OTOH, the GSD also needs more attention, on a different level. I think you need to spend more time training basics, and establishing yourself as a leader. I sense that dog is beginning to "rule the roost".
Anthony8858 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2012, 08:47 PM   #107 (permalink)
Member
 
sunsets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 88
Default

Savage,

Sounds like you are in tough situation. You mentioned you can't afford "professional training". I have good news for you - you have a GSD, you don't need the professional.

Just (sort of) kidding, but it seems that your Nala is a typical GSD who worships the ground you walk on. She wants you to give her stuff to do. Even if you can't do long walks right now, I'm guessing you can give her 10 minutes of undivided attention a few times a day? Make her sit, lie down, stay, fetch....whatever, but get her doing stuff for you. Get her to focus - you want her to react with "Yes, Sir!" when you say her name.

There are plenty of good books and online resources out there - clicker training/operant conditioning is popular and very easy to do with your dog. Heck, check out the training forums here, folks post videos and everything! Just takes time and repetition, and you have to keep up with it. It's worth it in the end.

Good luck.
sunsets is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2012, 09:13 PM   #108 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 24,850
Default

Some dogs don't care about treats, and some don't care about toys. Well, if you really need a treat and nuked hot dog won't work, try bacon. But I had such a bitch who could care less for treats or toys. But I she would walk a tight rope for praise. I had to totally train her using nothing but praise.

They are all different, you just need to find something that motivates her. I don't think a private trainer will help much for SSA, frankly. But I think taking your GSD to classes and working with her on a daily basis those things you are learning in classes, well after the classes are over, you might be in another place in your relationship, a better place. But don't stop there, sign up for another set of classes. It is a great idea to get her a good foundation.

Here's the thing, a dog with training may be better at doing what you want, and looking to you when in situations where she is uncertain. But if you still need to rehome the dog, a dog that can sit and down, and heel, and has demonstrated that she can be worked around other dogs, and people might be a little easier to find a good home for. A good goal would be the Canine Good Citizen Test.

A dog that is no longer a cute sweet baby puppy needs every thing possible in their favor to find a good home. Everyone expects an eight week old puppy to jump up, and to nip, and to have accidents in the home. A nine month old puppy that jumps up, can't sit or down, pulls you down the street, barks and lunges at other dogs or people, is going no where fast.

Training, just a little training can make the difference in so many cases, as to whether a dog lands in a shelter, and then on the euth list, or if a dog gets a nice home. Part of the cost of dog ownership is training. No, not everyone can afford a behaviorist/professional trainer to work with just them, but everyone who owns a dog ought to be able to come up with 75 - 125 dollars in six or eight weeks to take the pup to school.

It is true that people can train their dogs themselves. Some of us go to classes for the distractions of other dogs and people who are working with them. Some go because they want to fine tune stuff, and a trainer can see stuff about our body language and dogs reactions to it, that we simply cannot see. And some of us need to start from Go, learning everything from the beginning.

Find a good trainer in your area, and sign up for classes.
__________________
Jenna, RN CGC & Babs, CD RA CGC HIC
Heidi, RA CGC
SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD
Ninja, RN CGC & Milla, RN CGC
Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC
Dolly CGC & Bear CGC
Gretta
Hepzibah & Hannah
selzer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2012, 11:59 PM   #109 (permalink)
Jag
Knighted Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,683
Default

I would normally say 'last one in is first one out'... however... it doesn't sound like the GSD is having her needs met. As a disabled RN, I can tell you that I worked lots of overtime (either at the same job or with an agency) to get money for things. It doesn't cost that much to pay for a training class. A bored GSD is more likely to get itself into trouble. If I were in your shoes, I'd rehome the GR and get the shepherd into classes. No one can even say if the shepherd started any of this...so why is the blame landing on this dog? At least one of the fights caused an injury to the shepherd. Both homes left the shepherd unattended with another dog. I'm sure that the shepherd is stewing to some degree because she's now separated from the family and the pack. It sounds like the shepherd needs more time spent with her, not less. If your family isn't totally on board and devoted to providing what the shepherd needs, then I'd agree that finding a rescue either willing to take the dog in or willing to help you find a new home is the best solution. Maybe also find a new home for the GR and agree that 2 dogs is your limit. Packs can be thrown off by a new member. IMO, anyone thinking about adding to their pack needs to plan ahead of time what they will do if that new member disrupts things. It can happen with any breed of dog. Not sure exactly where you are, but there are lots of parks and hiking areas in KY that would be great to take a GSD to.
Jag is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-28-2012, 05:54 AM   #110 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: KY
Posts: 7
Default

Hello, I am "the wife" in this situation . I love all of my dogs. Ideally, I don't want to rehome any of them to be honest. I wish we could find a solution where they could stay together. I have read everyone's advice and it's all great advice, but I do want to clarify a few things. The first attack that happened at 3:30am wasn't the first time that Bella (my GR) was left out of her cage. She had been out previously on many occasions with no issues and before she started tearing up the floor she was out all the time. Bella and Nala have been living together without problems since March of this year also, so Bella isn't exactly a "NEW" puppy in the house although she is coming into maturity and she has been with us the least amount of time. Now I do remember after separating the dogs on that night, I saw Bella's kong not too far from the site where the fight took place and I have noticed Bella growling at the other dogs over it since Nala has been separated from them. So maybe it was a fight over the Kong, not sure though. It's very possible. The second time Nala (GS) attacked Bella (GR) she deliberately waited for me to walk out of the kitchen to attack her, but there was food out during that time also. (They have always eaten together without issues though. Nala has never been protective of food in the past.) But let's say that Nala is getting aggressive with Bella because of food and toys, although this has never been an issue before. Is it possible to correct this behavior between the two of them without rehoming either? I have dealt with Males being aggressive over food before and separating them solved that but this seems different.

Another thing is, I just really don't understand why Nala keeps attacking when Bella is submissive to her. Bella has never been aggressive toward her in the past. During the attacks Bella freezes and just cries. She doesn't even try to fight back. If Bella does growl at her, she has never done anything to back it up even with the other dogs.
dawn8207 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:22 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com