Kudos to Kira! It could have been ugly.. - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2012, 08:39 AM   #11 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Anthony8858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanKBBMMMAAN View Post
Well Kira probably has a good enough head on her shoulders to recognize risk and intent. Dogs rushing up to you does not always equal aggression and does not always mean you or your dog have to use excessive force. While it is unpleasant and rude, a dog and owner who can appropriately manage the issue are nice to read about!

I am not sure dogs who can't breathe, are orthopedically deformed, and whose eyes can pop from the socket are going to be the most tenacious aggressors either.
I agree, Jean.

I was honestly more concerned about the pug's safety, than Kira's. They were charging and barking, and as I said, "just looking for trouble". Im sure if they posed a real threat, there wouldn't have been much I could have done.

martemchik:
Keep in mind, Kira could be somewhat reactive. She's been attacked before, yet shows no sign of aggression, but will "puff up" more than I'd l like her to.
I've used her "leave it" to effectively change her mindset to something more neutral. It's resulted in pleasant walks for her, and much more control for my wife.

As always, if this is something I shouldn't be doing, feel free to chime in.
Anthony8858 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-12-2012, 08:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
The Rescues Rule Administrator
 
JeanKBBMMMAAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 23,797
Default

I agree with carmpsack in that idea of keep moving along - I know I will freeze up and stop because I don't want the dogs to chase (be a tree!) as we walk away, but you might have gotten away with it. I also agree the leave it and leadership made a huge difference to her, and I think that she still showed some good smarts/judgement in this situation.

And yeah poor Pugs. It would be like thinking it was okay for a mewling kitten to give chase.
__________________
IMOM is...
JeanKBBMMMAAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 08:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Anthony8858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
from a different eye , Anthony do you see the level of Kira's arousal and discomfort -- "The dogs get to about 20 feet, and see Kira get into an aggressive stance, growling with hackles up." 20 feet away is a huge distance for her to be sent into the fear-zone . But never mind the dog -- she will be this way -- what is major in a good way is that YOU stepped up "I immediately yelled " leave it", and she stopped, and just turned to look at me" and provided direction , leadership that Kira needs.
Pugs can't do much , bite or breath . Irresponsible of the owners to put their defenceless dogs at risk .

the only change I would have done is to pre-empt Kira's focus on dogs , that far away , told her LEAVE IT , the moment she looked , and kept on walking with her at heel.
She was allowed to see the dogs from 20 feet away and stay in the same spot for the dogs to be under her nose.
Carmen,
You responded as I was replying to another.

Yes, 20 feet is close, I do agree. It was somewhat dark, and I'll honestly admit that my first thought was 2 pits charging. I didn't immediately get a good read on it.

I have to clarify something.

Are you saying that it's best to continue walking?
Would that have put us in a position for a blindsided attack?

In this case, it was pugs. What if it were a more potentially aggressive breed?
Anthony8858 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 08:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: ontario -
Posts: 9,072
Default

No , 20 feet away is far far away .
YOU keep calm and you keep control of the situation, the dog will pick up from you , which you see in some ways she did " and I'll honestly admit that my first thought was 2 pits charging. I didn't immediately get a good read on it."
Looks like you were afraid and focused on what might happen (just like the dog) -not without reason . At first hint of dogs yapping , a firm LEAVE it and then show the dog what will happen , (calmly keep on going for your walk) , not get stuck in what might happen - all the potential catastrophies.
You did good.
carmspack is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 08:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Anthony8858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
No , 20 feet away is far far away .
YOU keep calm and you keep control of the situation, the dog will pick up from you , which you see in some ways she did " and I'll honestly admit that my first thought was 2 pits charging. I didn't immediately get a good read on it."
Looks like you were afraid and focused on what might happen (just like the dog) -not without reason . At first hint of dogs yapping , a firm LEAVE it and then show the dog what will happen , (calmly keep on going for your walk) , not get stuck in what might happen - all the potential catastrophies.
You did good.
Oh, I see.

Hate to harp....
Assuming I kept walking...

But what if other dog(s) continue to pursue?

Yes, I do get anxiety over this. This issue in my neck of the woods, has become a concern on more than one occasion. More chance encounters, than I'd like.
Anthony8858 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 09:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
martemchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,357
Default

I was kind of leaning towards 20 feet is kind of far. I know Kira is a bit reactive and so that's why its good that you said what you did.

Just my personal feelings on dogs off leash, without owners around, gets me to not really care how my dog handles that kind of situation. I know many people on here will protect their dog from an attack and risk their own life and limb over it but I wouldn't be able to. Again, we're speaking about two different temperaments. My dog thinks all dogs are his best friends until they're in his face and growling at which point he asserts his dominance (if I allow it).

I was just stating that you did something I probably wouldn't have ever done, at least not from 20 feet away so kudos to you. When I have been in situations where an off lead dog came at me and my dog, I usually say something at about 10 feet, when my boy is already at the end of the 6 foot leash and the other dog stops dead in its tracks 4 feet away from him after realizing what its running at. I got a bit tired of my apartment complex and little dog owners allowing their dogs to do this, so my opinion is a bit jaded...I'll try and prevent my boy from reacting but I also won't just make him sit there while an ankle biter is nipping at his neck. Thankfully pretty much all the dogs that have come running up to him looking "aggressive" were just bluffing and quieted down real quick as soon as they got up to us.

It is really nice that you can get her to concentrate on something else that quickly though. Like you stated, she's a bit reactive and so you don't like the attention she'll give to other dogs. Were there somethings that weren't good about her reaction? Sure...but I don't believe that puffing up and barking is the worst thing she could've done in this situation.
martemchik is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 10:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Anthony8858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
I was kind of leaning towards 20 feet is kind of far. I know Kira is a bit reactive and so that's why its good that you said what you did.

Just my personal feelings on dogs off leash, without owners around, gets me to not really care how my dog handles that kind of situation. I know many people on here will protect their dog from an attack and risk their own life and limb over it but I wouldn't be able to. Again, we're speaking about two different temperaments. My dog thinks all dogs are his best friends until they're in his face and growling at which point he asserts his dominance (if I allow it).

I was just stating that you did something I probably wouldn't have ever done, at least not from 20 feet away so kudos to you. When I have been in situations where an off lead dog came at me and my dog, I usually say something at about 10 feet, when my boy is already at the end of the 6 foot leash and the other dog stops dead in its tracks 4 feet away from him after realizing what its running at. I got a bit tired of my apartment complex and little dog owners allowing their dogs to do this, so my opinion is a bit jaded...I'll try and prevent my boy from reacting but I also won't just make him sit there while an ankle biter is nipping at his neck. Thankfully pretty much all the dogs that have come running up to him looking "aggressive" were just bluffing and quieted down real quick as soon as they got up to us.

It is really nice that you can get her to concentrate on something else that quickly though. Like you stated, she's a bit reactive and so you don't like the attention she'll give to other dogs. Were there somethings that weren't good about her reaction? Sure...but I don't believe that puffing up and barking is the worst thing she could've done in this situation.
I completely understand your position, and in most cases, I'd probably feel the same.
Kira is an amazing dog, but she DOES have issues, and would probably do very well in the hands of an experienced handler. She is fearful, and unless you have experience, it's very easy for an owner to not know the difference between a "fear bark", and a bark to be afraid of.

Carmen, (a while back) made a comment about Kira, saying that I should be concerned about Kira not being able to back up her actions. I now know what she meant. Kira will puff up, and do her best to scare you, but I'm 100% certain, that she wouldn't stand a chance in a dog fight. She will be seriously injured. I know she will.

If another dog doesn't buy her bluff, she's in big trouble. For that reason, I'm trying to neutralize her in the face of "fear". I would prefer nothing from her, rather than a reaction that could invite more aggression from another dog.

So... If I'm walking with her, and another dog approaches, I must take every measure possible to avoid a confrontation. Kira will not fight, nor submit. She goes into flight mode, and that's a big problem for both of us.
Unless I got it all wrong, neutralizing her is the best way to handle this.
Anthony8858 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 11:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Wild Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,116
Default

You did a great job telling her to leave it and providing appropriate leadership. Whenever Hunter and I are charged by dogs, we keep moving forward and I provide obedience for Hunter to focus on. I always ask for focused heeling, and I will kick the other dog away while we move. /I/ deal with the other dog, Hunter's job is to focus on me and wait for any command. Hunter is 100% non-reactive to other dogs, so it's not hard for me... but in the end, Hunter will respond to an aggressive dog appropriately if he is attacked. It's my job to keep it from escalating to an attack. I manipulate my own dog so that he is not responding back, and focused on me, and therefore confusing the intentions of the other dog. The other dog wants to be unstable, reactive, aggressive to Hunter - Hunter is busy not reacting and focusing on me - if I can keep his focus, situation cannot escalate. Unless the dog full on charges and attacks Hunter. That is when I drop Hunter's leash, release him from heel, and we both attack the aggressor. (If Hunter was attacked/bitten/etc he would not follow my commands... that is nature, survival instinct - he will fight/defend me and himself) My job then is to grab the aggressor by the collar/neck and lift up, keeping head under control and away from Hunter until I can get my spare slip lead out and get control of the dog.

Got on the elevator with Hunter the other day, a small dog charged on and bit Hunter in the face. Hunter did not even bite back, but obeyed my SIT! LEAVE IT! commands while I kicked the dog repeatedly until the owner pulled it back.

No matter what we do... irresponsible dog owners will always be there to mess everything up.
__________________
SG S-Hunter vom Geistwasser CA CGN TT (Airport Wildlife Control K9)
Zenna vom Geistwasser

"May my enemies live long so they can see me progress."


www.germanshepherdguide.com
Wild Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 11:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Anthony8858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Wolf View Post
You did a great job telling her to leave it and providing appropriate leadership. Whenever Hunter and I are charged by dogs, we keep moving forward and I provide obedience for Hunter to focus on. I always ask for focused heeling, and I will kick the other dog away while we move. /I/ deal with the other dog, Hunter's job is to focus on me and wait for any command. Hunter is 100% non-reactive to other dogs, so it's not hard for me... but in the end, Hunter will respond to an aggressive dog appropriately if he is attacked. It's my job to keep it from escalating to an attack. I manipulate my own dog so that he is not responding back, and focused on me, and therefore confusing the intentions of the other dog. The other dog wants to be unstable, reactive, aggressive to Hunter - Hunter is busy not reacting and focusing on me - if I can keep his focus, situation cannot escalate. Unless the dog full on charges and attacks Hunter. That is when I drop Hunter's leash, release him from heel, and we both attack the aggressor. (If Hunter was attacked/bitten/etc he would not follow my commands... that is nature, survival instinct - he will fight/defend me and himself) My job then is to grab the aggressor by the collar/neck and lift up, keeping head under control and away from Hunter until I can get my spare slip lead out and get control of the dog.

Got on the elevator with Hunter the other day, a small dog charged on and bit Hunter in the face. Hunter did not even bite back, but obeyed my SIT! LEAVE IT! commands while I kicked the dog repeatedly until the owner pulled it back.

No matter what we do... irresponsible dog owners will always be there to mess everything up.
Very descriptive, and spot on. Focus is key. I'll continue to work on it.

Thanks for writing this.
Anthony8858 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2012, 12:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: ontario -
Posts: 9,072
Default

agree 110% with Wild Wolf --- I road work my dogs , running beside my bike on my rural roads and many a dog does the long run down a driveway to bark at us . One time a dog did a bit more , actually came out onto the road and made it clear it was targeting my dog aggressively. This could be bad . I could have been knocked off the bike and then been in the middle of some great heated battle , so , my dog "leaving it" under control on lead , I jumped off the bike and use the bike as a barrier , bumping the aggressive dog if it got close , turning around keeping an eye on it the whole time. Of course yelling "come and get your dog " as loud and as often as I could till finally the guy comes out of his house , realizes the chain has broken and tries to get his dog which has zero obedience, finally grabs the end of the chain dragging , comes up close to grab the collar and then his dog , surprised, gives him a quick nip. We continue as if nothing happened.
carmspack is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:35 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com