Try to explain what I witnessed today...

[Anthony8858]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Not necessarily "establishing" but "reinforcing"?

I injured Pebble's 'pride' and she was going to remind the lowest on the totem pole that he was still the lowest and she was definitely above him.

I have seen her redirect and she redirects on the closest dog - regardless of rank.

I see redirection as being a different type of 'frustration' than what occurred with me disciplining her, or the dogs @ the park disciplining that dog.

Redirection is a 'heat of the moment' and because they can't bite the object of their anger/frustration, they turn to the closest dog there. Often the dog they redirect on is injured or taken so by surprise they back off and if an owner or other human is nearby (or even walking the dog who redirected) they can control the situation.

Thanks for explaining this.
So interesting.

[msvette2u]

Redirection is a real issue and some dogs will redirect on humans, if no other dog is around.

[Anthony8858]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Redirection is a real issue and some dogs will redirect on humans, if no other dog is around.

I can see this happening.

[Olivers mama]

Originally Posted by x11

lol i still am trying to pin-point exactly when and how GR's and Labs became the international icons of doclility - both breeds were serious working dogs not for pet owners way back when i was a kid, especially the lab, many were quiet civil aggressive.

That's what I was thinking....

Just saw on a dog show (can't remember which one) that said GR's are fast becoming the most biting breed. The lead-in was the biting story, but I admit, my mind went to other breeds (before GR was announced). Figures, only our society can take a beautiful, intelligent, soulful breed - & ruin it.

Yep - sure sounds like "Poop runs downhill" to me!

[NoVAGSDGuy]

Originally Posted by Jo Ellen

Golden retrievers are known for being friendly to all but they sure can stand up for themselves when they need to -- they are not dogs to be "picked on."

This is very true, a friend of mine had a Golden that I was very close to, and she was the epitome of what a good dog should be....except when another dog tried to take the toy she was playing with....then she established that she was not to be messed with and would usually make that dog bleed, even as it was running away....

His dog has since past, and its probably for the best that Abby and her never got to play, because Abby doesn't really understand your toys and hers, she shares hers, and kind of expects the same in return. To the point her and a dog with a similar disposition can even naw on separate ends of the same bone....lol She probably wouldn't take to kindly to the Golden attacking her whatever the reason....lol

[DharmasMom]

I had an issue of redirection by a collie against Dharma the last time we went to our old dog park. There was a woman, Linda (who I actually thought was a friend) who had an older collie named Kit. Kit like to chase balls. Well Pippa doesn't like to chase balls but she likes to run with the dogs that chase them. I tried repeatedly to keep her from running with Kit but Linda continued to say it was okay and allow it. So when Linda would throw the ball I would distract Pippa long enough to give Kit a long head start and then release Pippa since Pippa was much faster. This arrangement worked well, for awhile. One day Linda threw the ball while I was on the other side of the park cleaning up after Dharma. Pippa caught up to get and knocked Kit over. I didn't see it so I can't say if it was done on purpose or an accident. Pippa does like to play rough and will body slam her sister but at the same time she is faster than Kit and it could have been an accident as well. I looked up to see Kit getting rolled. Now to be fair, this is a dog park and dogs to get rolled. I know mine have, it happens

Well, Kit took GREAT offense at it and jumped up ready to fight. However, Pippa was long gone but Dharma was nearby minding her own business. She has a ball she loves and was playing with by herself. Kit then charged her and attacked her. Dharma tried desperately to submit. Linda and I were running across the park yelling at Kit but Kit just continued to bite Dharma's neck and growl. Dharma continued to show every sign of submission and tried to walk away with a collie attached to her neck and biting her every step of the way. Just before we reached them, Dharma decided she had enough and turned and let Kit have it. She growled and grabbed Kit by the face and wouldn't let go. She never punctured her skin or made any mark. It was more of a warning of "bitch, if you don't STOP". We had to pry Dharma off of her so of course Dharma got blamed for being the aggressive, dangerous one. Linda actually had the nerve to report us.

Next thing I know the head of AC is telling us that because my dogs "play too rough" if we are going to be in the park, my dogs have to be leashed. I even tried to explain to him that having leashed dogs in an unleashed park can CAUSE aggression but he didn't agree. We left and haven't been back since. We have since found a much better park to go to.

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Redirection is a real issue and some dogs will redirect on humans, if no other dog is around.

Absolutely. I groom an Irish Terrier that is very dog-aggressive. Generally, he's fine while in the shop, but if another dog barks at him or even makes eye contact, it's on, and if I'm not careful he will redirect on ME.

[Anthony8858]

This morning, Kira was laying on her ottoman in front of her window. She would sit there most of the day, just observing everything.
Occasionally, someone would pass by with a dog, and she would start barking. If I'm home, I call her off, and do my best to discourage this behavior.

Yesterday, she starts going bonkers at the window, and I call her off. She listened, and turned away. However, whatever it was, was irresistible, so she turned and wanted more. Again, I called her off. Se was all puffed up, and in a heightened state.

As she turned to walk towards me, she grabbed a nearby shoe, and started growling and shaking it like crazy.

Is this an example of redirected aggression?

[msvette2u]

Yes that sounds like it.
I'll try to record my Doxies getting hyped up and Pebbles redirecting, but honestly, it's something I prefer to avoid.

Kira's adrenalin was worked up and she needed somewhere for it to go. Another dog may have grabbed your leg, she grabbed a shoe and shook it.
Honestly, it's a good idea to keep things like that around (not a shoe but a dog toy!) so they can do that and work out their tensions safely.