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Gun owner, my dog, scary situation

12K views 75 replies 34 participants last post by  Kyleigh 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
First, I take full responsibility for not 100% controlling my dog in this situation. My fault, my blame, and I will not let it happen again.

We were skijoring in a remote area (unlikely to see anyone), with four dogs. I had my husky hooked to me, the malinois was in harness but she and my shepherd were free running, my partner was well behind with his older dog.

We were moving at a pretty good clip, like 15 mph. I was just kind of enjoying the moment. There was a walker on the trail ahead of us but I didn't pay much attention. We pass people on trails ALL the time in busier areas with neutral behavior from all parties. As we approached, my malinois ran ahead a bit and barked at the guy a few times. I told her to come, and she immediately came and we went on by. I didn't think much of it.

We got back to the parking lot and changed our skis out to head out on the more narrow trails for some slower ski touring. All the dogs were relaxed. The guy we passed came down the trail. An older guy.

I said hello, he said "your dog scared the :poop: out of me".

I said, "I am so sorry, I called her right away, I didn't expect her to bark like that."

He said, "well, you're not the only one with a weapon out here," unzipped his jacket, and started to pull out a large revolver he had strapped to his chest.

I was somewhat in shock. He was handling the gun. My dogs were 100% neutral- and playing with each other and there was absolutely no threat or inference of a threat from me (female, young, smaller).

He said, "I was a second away from shooting your dog".

This was interesting since my dog maybe barked three times and as we ran by. The entire encounter took about three seconds or less.

I said, "she was barking, I know she shouldn't do that, and I don't let her bark at people, but she was a bit startled."

He said that she was showing her "fangs". That he knew dogs, that he had 50 stitches in his head from a dog, and 8 dogs at home, and that he knew she was serious. I understood he was afraid of dogs. I got all that. I honestly do have the dogs I have in part for deterrence of (human male) attackers. That said, they are not PPD and I don't need that.

BUT BUT BUT, my goal with all my dogs is neutrality and 100% recall. Obviously, I dropped the ball here and it is MY fault my dog barked at the guy. Brief it may have been, reactive it may have been and so on, I am not making excuses.

What I take away from this is:

1. My dog needs more neutrality and OB training, we are not as far along as I had thought, despite numerous neutral encounters on more busy trails every day.

2. If I see someone on the trail ahead, I need to "heel" my malinois and/or (until she is 100% with her OB) leash her until we are past the person. Even though she rarely reacts, she needs to understand that I make the decisions.

3. Keep practicing the recall. Under extreme distractions.

4. I need to expect that people are carrying concealed, especially in rural areas. It is legal in this state.

5. My "small" (55 lb) dog is scary even though I don't see her that way very easily because she is so sweet with her family. Even more so because of the way she looks to people, I need 100% control over this dog.

6. Huge wake up call. I love this dog and I need to not let her make her own decisions in these situations. I will leash for her until her OB is solid and consistent.

So, I totally blame myself. Gave my girl a lot of loving last night, and was very happy I'd worked with her so much on recall that when I called her she came immediately. Kicked myself for not calling her to a heel before we passed the guy many times already.

I'm still a bit in shock by the guy pulling a gun on me well after the barking incident and when my dogs were not acting remotely threatening. Took me a long time to settle down last night.

It was like my worst nightmare. The last thing I want is my dog making me LESS safe than more safe.

Just a warning to us all that we can never be too careful or have too much control over our dogs. With some dogs, you can NEVER be complacent. Time for me to do some really consistent training with this. I could have avoided this whole thing if I had just called her in when I first noticed the walker on the trail in front of us.

I'm still reeling a bit. Nothing like this has ever happened to me before.
 
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#3 ·
I applaud you for taking responsiblity for your dog's reactions. I also applaud you for taking steps to ensure that you keep your dog(s) safe.

It only takes a moment. Just one single moment to change everything. I'm really happy that nothing serious came of this. Take a deep breath.

One more thing....Boy! Does skijoring sound like fun!!! What a great way to spend time with your dogs!
 
#4 ·
I once was working out on a treadmill in our workout center at work. It faces windows. A guy snuck up behind me, grabbed my shoulder, and yelled, "boo!" Unfortunately, I was not the person he thought I was. But he scared the **** out of me, and my reactionary response was to say, "man, I just about punched you right in the face!"

Of course, that is so far from the truth! I was completely startled and caught off guard from it. There's no way, even if I wanted to, that I could have punched him in the face. It was just a heart-racing, adrenaline pumped response to being startled.

Moral of the story- we all say stupid things under stress, and I doubt the guy was really, in actuality, a second away from shooting your dog. Not to mention that in most states, to my knowledge, threatening you (or your property) by brandishing his weapon was completely illegal.

I think you just caught the guy off guard and he wanted to give you an earful. Lesson learned on your part.
 
#26 ·
to the OP. disregard this La-La land, Disney point of view.
you were threaten with a gun.

>>>>> Moral of the story- we all say stupid things under stress, and I doubt the guy was really, in actuality, a second away from shooting your dog. Not to mention that in most states, to my knowledge, threatening you (or your property) by brandishing his weapon was completely illegal.

I think you just caught the guy off guard and he wanted to give you an earful. <<<<<

Lesson learned on your part.
 
#5 ·
First, I take full responsibility for not 100% controlling my dog in this situation. My fault, my blame, and I will not let it happen again.

We were skijoring in a remote area (unlikely to see anyone), with four dogs. I had my husky hooked to me, the malinois was in harness but she and my shepherd were free running, my partner was well behind with his older dog.

We were moving at a pretty good clip, like 15 mph. I was just kind of enjoying the moment. There was a walker on the trail ahead of us but I didn't pay much attention. We pass people on trails ALL the time in busier areas with neutral behavior from all parties. As we approached, my malinois ran ahead a bit and barked at the guy a few times. I told her to come, and she immediately came and we went on by. I didn't think much of it.

We got back to the parking lot and changed our skis out to head out on the more narrow trails for some slower ski touring. All the dogs were relaxed. The guy we passed came down the trail. An older guy.

I said hello, he said "your dog scared the sh*t out of me".

I said, "I am so sorry, I called her right away, I didn't expect her to bark like that."

He said, "well, you're not the only one with a weapon out here," unzipped his jacket, and started to pull out a large revolver he had strapped to his chest.

I was somewhat in shock. He was handling the gun. My dogs were 100% neutral- and playing with each other and there was absolutely no threat or inference of a threat from me (female, young, smaller).

He said, "I was a second away from shooting your dog".

This was interesting since my dog maybe barked three times and as we ran by. The entire encounter took about three seconds or less.

I said, "she was barking, I know she shouldn't do that, and I don't let her bark at people, but she was a bit startled."

He said that she was showing her "fangs". That he knew dogs, that he had 50 stitches in his head from a dog, and 8 dogs at home, and that he knew she was serious. I understood he was afraid of dogs. I got all that. I honestly do have the dogs I have in part for deterrence of (human male) attackers. That said, they are not PPD and I don't need that.

BUT BUT BUT, my goal with all my dogs is neutrality and 100% recall. Obviously, I dropped the ball here and it is MY fault my dog barked at the guy. Brief it may have been, reactive it may have been and so on, I am not making excuses.

What I take away from this is:

1. My dog needs more neutrality and OB training, we are not as far along as I had thought, despite numerous neutral encounters on more busy trails every day.

2. If I see someone on the trail ahead, I need to "heel" my malinois and/or (until she is 100% with her OB) leash her until we are past the person. Even though she rarely reacts, she needs to understand that I make the decisions.

3. Keep practicing the recall. Under extreme distractions.

4. I need to expect that people are carrying concealed, especially in rural areas. It is legal in this state.

5. My "small" (55 lb) dog is scary even though I don't see her that way very easily because she is so sweet with her family. Even more so because of the way she looks to people, I need 100% control over this dog.

6. Huge wake up call. I love this dog and I need to not let her make her own decisions in these situations. I will leash for her until her OB is solid and consistent.

So, I totally blame myself. Gave my girl a lot of loving last night, and was very happy I'd worked with her so much on recall that when I called her she came immediately. Kicked myself for not calling her to a heel before we passed the guy many times already.

I'm still a bit in shock by the guy pulling a gun on me well after the barking incident and when my dogs were not acting remotely threatening. Took me a long time to settle down last night.

It was like my worst nightmare. The last thing I want is my dog making me LESS safe than more safe.

Just a warning to us all that we can never be too careful or have too much control over our dogs. With some dogs, you can NEVER be complacent. Time for me to do some really consistent training with this. I could have avoided this whole thing if I had just called her in when I first noticed the walker on the trail in front of us.

I'm still reeling a bit. Nothing like this has ever happened to me before.
You probably saved your life/lives with being courteous to that jerk. I agree that your dog sensed it. Sounds like a guy who shouldn't have guns. I wish you peaceful snowy trails.
 
#6 ·
I would call the police.

Yes, you should have your dog leashed if she/he will bark at people, but dogs are dogs. They bark. They shouldn't be out there scaring people, and I think you got that. But no way should someone threaten you or your dogs with their gun. The guy is a jerk, and it may be a good thing if the police know that he is out there showing off his weapon and threatening people with it.

I actually approve with concealed carry. We have it my state too. Gun enthusiasts do not like people being idiots with the privilege.
 
#7 ·
That is really scary with the guy actually getting his gun out. Here it would be considered illegal to threaten a person like that - after you had already controlled your dog and was speaking to him especially. I know you take full responsibility for it all and I applaud your attitude but don't worry yourself too much. Your dog knew the guy was a cookie short of a dozen I think and reacted appropriately for what he felt. It's great you have such a solid recall. I shudder to think what could have happened. I do carry concealed but my number 1 rule is never take out that gun unless I plan to fire it. I do not believe in threatening people. There are some people out there that should not have concealed permits. Glad it turned out okay. Now about that skijoring - sounds like fun but we have no snow. :)
 
#12 ·
^This is very well said! I think Teri has the right perspective on this. It seems quite irresponsible to brandish a deadly weapon, even if you have no intent of using it. I mean, I have come close to pepper spraying a dog and then didn't have to because the owner regained control, but I have never waved the canister in the owner's face afterward. And that's not even a deadly weapon.

I think your plan for training sound excellent, and try not to be too hard on yourself. The man overreacted. For someone who claims to have 8 dogs, you would think he would be a bit less afraid of them, no matter what his history with being bitten is.
 
#9 ·
Sounded a bit over the top to display it (did he display, or actually point it? If he pointed it, that's ridiculous), but from the guys perspective, it may be hard to determine the dog's intent/past/background. Guess I'm playing devils advocate. Good to hear that's as far as it went and lesson learned without any serious repercussions.
 
#11 ·
is it worth re-training yr dog for the unlikely occurrence that you will meet two complete nutters in the dog's lifetime. dogs bark - nothing gorundshattering there. did yr dog strain at the end of the leash snarling at the guy?, did it chase the guy up a tree just missing him with its fangs? i would not re-wire yr dog over this, jmo.
 
#14 ·
My understanding was that the dog was off-leash? And the dog running and barking, that can be scary, especially for someone who has had a serious dog bite. The fact that the guy has been bitten seriously makes him all the more likely to be bitten again. This could be because his own actions might make dogs more reactive in the first place, or his fear of dogs since his bite might make dogs more apprehensive of him. Either way, a dog running loose and barking in such a manner that it is directed toward a stranger, is cause for that stranger to comment or expect an apology.

This yayhoo went overboard though.

And, sometimes we think we got our dogs at the next level, and then they surprise us, and we have to take them back a few steps and work more with them. If we are running radio-controlled cars, we could have a 100% certainty what reaction will follow each action. But with living creatures we cannot ever achieve 100%. I personally do not think that the answer is to always keep every dog muzzled, caged, or tethered to us. I think at some point, when we are in the high nineties, a part of our training can be off-lead work around other people.
 
#13 ·
Report this guy.

It is not illegal for a dog to bark at someone three times. If Your dog would have done that to me, I would have spoken to the dog, not come unglued.

That guy threatened you. Showing you his gun was a threat. It is NOT legal to flash a gun at someone in order to intimidate them.

I respect your desire to make sure your dogs are good citizens. However, I wonder what this guy might have done had you NOT had your dogs with you.
 
#36 ·
I think that I missed something - what exactly did the guy do?

I thought he just showed a pistol that he had. Did he carry it illegally? That is, no permit? Then by all means, report him to a police officer. Or if he threatened the OP by pointing it or saying something like I will shoot you.

Did the guy say/do these things? Or maybe even worse?

I must have missed it in the thread.

BTW, isn't a barking charging dog considered a threat?

Did the OP ever say how close the dog was to the guy before she got any control back over the dog?
 
#15 ·
Did the guy threaten you with the gun or just take it out? Point it at you, for example?

I too would feel threatened by a dog running at me barking. Wouldn't let them get too close before some reaction is needed on my part. If you do let them get too close might mean a bite.

Maybe a leash is the answer - so you do have control of your dog and the other folks can see that.

I don't know about others, but I assume that an off lead dog is out of their owners control (based on my experience!) until proven otherwise.
 
#19 ·
Thanks for the responses, I was afraid I might be lambasted for letting my dog bark at someone- I have already beaten myself up over that again and again.

I think it is worth training for 100% (or as close as possible) control over my malinois. She is a strong dog with a bit of reactivity which is normal for the breed but not something to take lightly. People also carry guns when hiking, for bear protection. There is no reason I should risk this happening again and not being so lucky. If we turn a corner on a trail and encounter someone acting strangely unexpectedly, I still want to have a 100% recall on my dog. She may have been reacting to the guy being sketchy, but doing so made me less safe, not more. I need to be able to control her in this type of situation.

Skijoring is really fun- I will post a recent video. We haven't had much snow in town yet, which is why we travelled to the remote area to skijor. I don't think I'll be going there again anytime soon.

The guy pulled the gun out of his chest holster but didn't point it at me. This was during the conversation post-encounter. That was enough to shake me up pretty good.

I think half of the problem was that we startled him. He was walking along on a remote trail and was suddenly being barked at. Had I called out, etc. he may not have had quite as severe a reaction. I have been yelled at when skijoring for passing someone too fast- even though I have bells on the dogs' harnesses and also yell out when I see someone to let them know I am coming by. And this is when the dogs do nothing wrong and just pull silently in harness. So, trail-user conflict was probably part of it. Those can get ugly even without a barking dog being involved.

Also, my malinois looks scary when barking- her teeth are very white, she has a black face and muzzle, she has pointy ears. She looks like a typical vision of a vicious police dog. She never charged the guy or remotely tried to bite him, but she was trying to look scary, I'm sure, and apparently succeeded.

I'm still feeling shaken up, but it is always good to have motivation to get out and train, especially at 0 degrees F.
 
#37 ·
The guy pulled the gun out of his chest holster but didn't point it at me.
Why would someone remove their gun from the holster? Unless they were going to use it? The only other reason I can think of is to intimidate someone. He could have just said, "Hey, your dog scared the crap out of me, and I'm armed to protect myself - you should be more careful next time." He didn't have to show his firearm. And even if he did want to prove that he wasn't making up a story, just opening up his jacket to show the holster would be enough. This guy sounds like a jerk to me.
 
#20 ·
I think the dog sensed something too. I don't think that barking a few times at someone would constitute that person pulling a gun. It scares me to think how many crazy people are allowed to have guns if this guy is allowed:crazy: I'm happy that everything turned out okay:)
 
#21 ·
I do use leashes in many areas especially during training. However, I trail run and mountain run a lot in places where we are unlikely to see anyone and where the dogs really enjoy sniffing about and being dogs. In some areas, leashes for all three dogs would be impractical if not unsafe. So, my goal is off leash reliability. I thought we were there, or at least well past the 90% stage, but apparently I still have work to do. That, and my being more proactive with reigning the dog in when I first see someone ahead of us.
 
#22 ·
Hi there,

I am sorry that this scary thing happened. That would really shake me up too. I like to off leash walking and hiking with Rafi too. He has an excellent recall but, because of past experiences with my dogs and people and other dogs, he is trained to stay by my side when we see a person or a dog, until I release him. I trained a "Back" (get behind me) and a "Stay with me" command and use one or both of those when we see other people or dogs when he's off leash. He has learned it so well now that he will drop back on his own.
 
#23 ·
No need to beat yourself up.

Show me someone who says they have never had an incident with their dog, and I will show you someone in denial :)

Keep training, keep doing what you are doing, and enjoy the great outdoors you have over there, even if Alaska does attract its share of kooks.

(I can say that, because Florida attracts them, too :D)
 
#24 ·
Muskeg, if I was you I would have Eddie Haskeled the guy to death and the moment he turned his back, I would have called the police. In fact, I think you still should because this guy sounds like a accident waiting to happen. Had he pulled his gun while it was happening or if he said, he was armed and taped on his weapon that might have been a little different. (that could maybe be taken as some unfriendly advice) But displaying a gun in the manner you describe, is reckless conduct.

I worked in a gun shop before and have seen people like him, people who hope someone will give them a reason (even if it's their own minds) to use their guns. I mean they do stuff like leave their doors unlocked, hoping someone will brake in. Also to be considered, he might have been out stalking someone or is just a plain nut.

Regardless of what set the event in motion, I think you should report the incident to the proper authorities. You might save someones life.
 
#25 ·
Packman is right: No responsible gun owner behaves like that and this guy is looking for a reason to shoot at something or someone so he can feel more manly.

(As if being able to pull the trigger on a handgun is MANLY. I'm fat, female, and 52 and I can pull a trigger just fine. And since I'm not all worried about looking macho, my plain old shotgun would easily take out any idiot brandishing a pistol. Guns aren't for posing or waving around. They're for making meat out of something alive.)
 
#27 ·
so your dog barked. you called your dog and your dog came to
you immediately. that's well trained. you see the guy later
and your dogs ignored the guy. he was flat out wrong for showing
you his gun. if the samething happened to in the manner you
described it. when he showed me his gun i would have shot him.
end of threat. definitely report what happened.
 
#28 ·
Disney land point of view? Keep dreaming. When people are startled, they say stupid things. And like I said, you even quoted, brandishing is illegal. Nothing la-la Disney about that.
 
#29 · (Edited)
When stupid people let their gun do their stupid talking they are an accident waiting to happen. If you want to carry a gun, then you have to have a measure of self-control. Showing people your gun and telling them that you would have shot their dog, should be enough to get that conceal-carry permit suspended. Being stupid with guns is like raising stupid to a power ie. stupid squared.


 
#30 ·
Where did I say I disagreed with that, Selzer? They guy was "one second from shooting the dog?" BS. If that was true, the gun would have been drawn, aimed, and finger on the trigger when the dog first barked. No... this was just an idiot who was startled by the dog and had a few mins to stew about it while walking up to them later in the parking lot (or wherever the ski change happened). The fact that he brandished his weapon was wrong and illegal, as I said in my first response.

This guy was a moron who wanted to pull a power trip and give the OP an earful. Nothing more. Both people and all dogs got to walk away alive. That's probably a good thing.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Back several decades ago when I was seventeen, I was in our used book shop in the middle of the night with my sister, taking a break after putting together a bunch of book shelves. An auxiliary cop came in, and I started walking out of the back room and right into the guy. We startled each other. I said, "you scared the shtuff out of me!" (only I didn't say "shtuff.") He said that he usually would have came in with his gun drawn. Both of our responses were from being startled. By the time he made his response, I had enough presence of mind to NOT ask, "They let you carry a gun?" (Small town, and this auxiliary cop was 18 -- he told me that later that night, when he was asking me about my sister -- yeah TMI.)

Anyhow, by the time this guy got down to the parking lot, startle-response was long gone. What was going on, was the product of stewing about someone having a good time with their dogs, and just having to show someone that he was ready to shoot something. There is nothing wrong with getting angry about something, nothing wrong with saying something about it. But this wasn't a startle-response. This guy went a step farther, and used his gun to let the other person know how angry he was. That is not enough inhibition going on, there -- scary.
 
#32 ·
I totally agree the guy is a loose cannon. Your dog did nothing a million other dogs haven't done and unless the guy has NEVER walked a trail like that before, this is not the first time he's been barked at, let's face it. We ALL have encountered dogs just like that. He's a freak, and wanted to show off, much like arsonists watch their fires, or murderers often show up at victim's funerals.

Report him.
 
#34 ·
to be honest, he probably would've shot your dog even if she weren't barking. people are just dumb, and as many other have mentioned, trigger happy.

good dog for warning you of this creep. i do not believe you did anything wrong. if we're out offleash on a trail and come across a person, i call my dogs back to me, leash em, get off the trail and then encourage them to bark. no one should be approaching me on a remote trail anyways. not there looking for friends or long conversations, just move along now.

i applaud you though, for recognizing this as a potential problem and your eagerness to act on it.
 
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