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Old 12-04-2012, 11:54 AM   #51 (permalink)
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SOOO ... I'm not trying to start a war here, but I'm confused ...

Some people on here get absolutely livid that a police officer shoots a dog that is charging them ... but most people on this thread are agreeing that they "might" shoot the dog if it charged them ...

What's the difference? A charging dog is still a charging dog ...

Or is the difference in the people who get mad at the police officer, not the same people who would "shoot" the charging dog?
The difference is that usually the police are wrongly in an area with the dog or the dog is NOT acting aggressively and they shoot/kill without giving owners a chance to contain the dog.

If I were out walking a trail and a dog came barking and growling at me, the owner couldn't call it off, and I was in fear that it was going to attack me, yes, I would shoot it. I'd give the owner a chance though. If I was running through someone elses yard illegally/wrongly for any reason and the dog in their yard tried doing the same; no, I would probably be attacked before I shot a dog for doing what dogs do.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:57 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Probably!

I would certainly feel much more threatened if someone waved / showed a gun at me, than if a dog was charging me. WHY? I'm more experienced around dogs than guns, or people with guns, or even crazy people with guns LOL

As for a dog running towards me if I was in the middle of nowhere? I'd simply stop walking - no use in giving the dog a reason to chase me. Likely, I'd hear someone call out for their dog (as the OP did). If it didn't go back, I still wouldn't move. I'd wait for the owner to come over.

I'm sure it's happened, but the odds of a dog out walking with it's owner running up and charging and barking and then flat out attacking me? I'd go with those odds than a person waving a gun at me.

But, that's just me!

You must live in a very interesting neighborhood if you are that much more likely to have a gun waved at you than have a dog come barking at you! WOW!

I have had a number of dogs come running to me barking but NEVER anyone waving a gun at me! (Thankfully!)
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I hate guns. First, I would have been terrified...and then I would have been furious. The dog recalled immediately so no reason to start making threats at you. I would have called the police.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #54 (permalink)
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No, you misunderstood my sentence (Or I wasn't clear enough)

What I meant was this: Sure there have been people attacked by dogs ... but the odds of being out on a walk and a dog just randomly coming up and flat out attacking ??? REALLY? Sure, the dog charges, hackles are up, barks.

For the experienced dog owners, you know what to do. YOU STOP ...

I live in Canada ... people don't carry guns around here (Ok, the criminals do, but they sure as heck aren't about to advertise it). I've been charged, barked at, and yes, had a dog circle me. I never got bit, I never got attacked.

I had to use my knowledge, experience with dogs to read the dog - and wait for the owner to arrive.

That's why I said I'd go with the odds of having a dog ATTACK (not charge / bark) than someone waving a gun at me (because I wouldn't see that in my neighbourhood). The odds of both incidences are super low.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:42 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I am curious as to why is it ok for the OP to feel threatened because the guy showed a gun, and yet most folks here don't seem to feel that the guy had a right to feel equally threatened by a large charging barking dog? Just curious?
It was perfectly OK for both to feel threatened.

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Originally Posted by wildo;
Probably because this is a dog forum, not a gun forum.
Not so much. The issue is that you can't wait for the fireworks to be over and some time after the fact decide to fix somebody's wagon by showing or using your gun. Do you realize that in most (maybe all?) states that allow concealed carry, it is illegal to even allow the gun to make a tell-tale imprint on your clothing, let alone take it out and show it to someone? Open carry is a whole different thing (and usually means you can't legally conceal the weapon unless you also have a CHL), but even then it is illegal to even hint at threatening someone with it.

It would have been OK if the man had drawn his gun and pointed it at the dog barking and running toward him. It would have been an over-reaction, but I think he had some basis for feeling the dog was threatening him and that he might need to protect himself. Revealing he had a gun and was willing to use it after the fact? No way.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:50 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Glad you are okay, that was a scary situation! Maybe you should carry when you are out there in secluded areas. My first thought is that your dog was no match for that crazy man should the need have arose (and not saying your dog should have had to protect you). People I know who carry concealed, well their guns stay concealed. No need to flash them. He has a screw loose.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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The guy we passed came down the trail. An older guy.

I said hello, he said "your dog scared the out of me".

I said, "I am so sorry, I called her right away, I didn't expect her to bark like that."

He said, "well, you're not the only one with a weapon out here," unzipped his jacket, and started to pull out a large revolver he had strapped to his chest.

I was somewhat in shock. He was handling the gun. My dogs were 100% neutral- and playing with each other and there was absolutely no threat or inference of a threat from me (female, young, smaller).

He said, "I was a second away from shooting your dog".
Maybe he wasn't making a threat with the gun? He didn't point it at anyone (not the OP and not the dog). Maybe he showed it to the OP as a way to show how badly it could have ended. I see his behavior as saying, "Hey, your dog scared me and you should be aware that there are people out here that are armed. I was that close to shooting your dog. Maybe you shouldn't let your dog run up and bark at people out here".

We have had a couple of incidents here in my area where dogs have been shot for just this type of behavior.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:33 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Maybe he wasn't making a threat with the gun? He didn't point it at anyone (not the OP and not the dog). Maybe he showed it to the OP as a way to show how badly it could have ended. I see his behavior as saying, "Hey, your dog scared me and you should be aware that there are people out here that are armed. I was that close to shooting your dog. Maybe you shouldn't let your dog run up and bark at people out here".

We have had a couple of incidents here in my area where dogs have been shot for just this type of behavior.
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It's possible that's what he thought he was doing, but what he did was illegal, regardless, and if he went to any half-way decent CHL class that point should have been hammered home repeatedly. When you carry concealed, the only time anyone should know you have a gun is when you are drawing your gun to protect yourself or another. You don't talk about it, you don't show it. You certainly don't deliver a caution or warning with it in your hand because anyone with half a brain cell is going to think you intend it as a threat.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:39 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Interesting discussion. I readily admit my dog should not be barking at people and should be able to be called off immediately if she does so. Were I to do this whole thing over again, I would have called her as soon as I saw the walker. But she does not normally bark at people on trails (she will react more strongly to other dogs) and I was kind of in a skijor mindset. So, my fault for allowing my dog to startle the man.

That said, I, too have been charged and barked at by all number of dogs on the trails. Especially when skijoring (chase and prey drive kick in). 100% of the time, the dogs are not out to attack or hurt me or my dogs- in my experience. People, including myself, do not allow a dog that would actually attack and bite someone off leash on public-use trails.

Now, this area we were in when the incident happened is indeed "rural" and there is certainly a different vibe out there. We are much less likely to encounter anyone who shoots first and asks questions later in the city. People here are used to dogs- people are generally not afraid of dogs. Does this mean I should let my dog do her scary barking display at people around here? Certainly not, but this is a more urban area with less of a cowboy culture. The end of the roaders out in rural Alaska are not known for their sunny personalities.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:00 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Kyleigh- I agree with you- I would much rather be charged by a barking dog (happens weekly) than have a gun brandished at me (has never happened before). I think my odds are very good that a barking dog does not intend to kill me or even bite me (has never happened in now 16 plus years of encountering dogs on trails and roads daily)- while a gun just takes a pull on the trigger to cause deadly and un-reversible damage.


A dog that will actually bite a random person with intent to do serious harm- that is rare.


We do not have a "leash" law in town. We do have animal under voice control mandates and animal menace laws. Arguably, a barking dog is menacing. I asked animal control about this, they said that as long as the barking dog is near the owner and under voice control it is considered a service animal (doing its job) and is not breaking the law.

What do you think? Is is ever appropriate for a dog to bark at someone on public trails (off leash)? Does it depend on what the dog looks like? We all have shepherds on this forum and my GSD can look scary. But my malinois can look scarier. Certainly people think she looks scary even when she is not doing anything remotely aggressive- I think it's the black face and her very white teeth. I think that certainly plays a role in how a dog's actions are perceived.

Regardless, as I stated before, I am training for neutrality and 100% recall. A real solid recall takes care of almost any situation. My intention is to live and let live when I go running/skijoring/hiking. I don't want to bother anyone and I don't want them to bother me.

I do not feel the need for a gun- but I do have my dogs for deterrence. From both four footed and two-footed predators. But, like I said, my mali barking in this manner can make me less safe, not more safe, and I need to train and be proactive in a way so that doesn't happen again.
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