Split up my First Fight.... (Lab and Pit)

[msvette2u]

When my two bitches got into it, I put them back together seconds after a fight. No fights in a year and they spend nearly 24 hrs a day together... Even eat side by side. I don't let them form a memory of fighting. When I put them back together, they always groom each other and lick their wounds.

Wow. Those of us with two bitches who've decided the other must die know better.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Konotashi

I guess we could have tried that... and got Sania killed....

You don't put them together and walk away lol. You put them together, paying attention to their posture and intentions, and make it clear that you will not allow fighting. The purpose is to replace that memory of "I'm going to kill that other dog" with a positive memory of that same dog. Then feel free to separate them and have a beer. The point is to end that experience with a positive view of the other dog

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Yeah I adopt that attitude when my dogs are fighting ABOUT something, like one stuck his face in the other's food bowl and there was some flashing of teeth, or stuff like that. I intervene, tell them to knock it off, and then we all go about our normal business. But when you own one dog who has decided it is his personal mission to KILL the other dog then yeah....the end result of letting go of the dogs and letting them right back at it would certainly be a "win" for one of the two dogs and a maimed or dead dog.

You keep them separate until the state of mind of fighting stops. When you separate them in that state of mind, and then kennel them they will simply sit there and review their most recent memory.. and thats why people end up with the dogs that want to kill each other on first sight. I use the same phenomena to up a dogs performance during bitework. Put them away pissed at the helper and they come out a week later twice as pissed.

[Liesje]

This is real life not helper work and not dogs having some random spats over this or that. My husband is 6'4" and 250 pounds and physically struggled to hold a 70lb dog intent on getting at the other dog. It's not about being "pissed" about this or that but keeping dogs and people *safe*. I don't kennel any of my dogs so it's not like they are doing this, going into kennel, doing that, going into kennel anyways. Sorry but I don't agree dogs are as simple as to only care about the very last thing that happened to them. When two dogs are hackling, growling, posturing, and showing avoidance signals at a distance I'm not just going to put them together to have fun observing their subsequent attacks. When there is one clear instigator IMO it is just cruel to subject other dogs to that. The solution is to keep the instigator from being able to pick fights. Pretty easy and safe. I don't owe it to my dogs or anyone for a bloodbath fight to "end in a positive experience" unless you mean dogs and humans both needing medical care. I owe it to my dogs to keep them safe even if it means safe from each other or an instigator intent on picking a fight.

[Kayos and Havoc]

Ditto Lies.

Hubby and I broke one up last wednesday. Kayos (10 y/o female) is very vocal and pushy. She pushed Havoc's (5 y/o male) buttons one too many times- just as he was coming through the narrow baby gate from the hall to the family room. Gates are up for puppy control.

Kayos nipped at him adn he had it out with her. Puppy tried to jump in. I snatched her up and tossed her in the yard. Buy then Havoc was pretty aroused and Kayos was afraid.

Hubby pulled Kayos by the waist. (She has bad hips did not want to grab legs). I sat on top of Havoc's head. Soon as he broke hold I grabbed his collar and tossed him in a crate.

It has been a long time since we have ahd a fight but it happens every now and then.

Hope your kids are recovering and I think you handled yourself well.

Life is back to normal here but I realized I had let Kayos get a bit too pushy so she has had her jets cooled for her.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Liesje

This is real life not helper work and not dogs having some random spats over this or that. My husband is 6'4" and 250 pounds and physically struggled to hold a 70lb dog intent on getting at the other dog. It's not about being "pissed" about this or that but keeping dogs and people *safe*. I don't kennel any of my dogs so it's not like they are doing this, going into kennel, doing that, going into kennel anyways. Sorry but I don't agree dogs are as simple as to only care about the very last thing that happened to them. When two dogs are hackling, growling, posturing, and showing avoidance signals at a distance I'm not just going to put them together to have fun observing their subsequent attacks. When there is one clear instigator IMO it is just cruel to subject other dogs to that. The solution is to keep the instigator from being able to pick fights. Pretty easy and safe. I don't owe it to my dogs or anyone for a bloodbath fight to "end in a positive experience" unless you mean dogs and humans both needing medical care. I owe it to my dogs to keep them safe even if it means safe from each other or an instigator intent on picking a fight.

Obviously when one is posturing you don't shove them together.. The Aggressor gets told it is not allowable. I'm 5'8" and 135 and had no issue handling dogs intent on biting ME. (Ps, if you're a good helper, there shouldn't be any difference with an adult dog. I am *not* friends with the dogs I work... We are infact quite the combatants). Then again, I'm a former Marine, experienced submission fighter, student of Relson Gracie Jiujitsu, and have had no issue subduing >6ft, >250 lb men either... So perhaps size has nothing to do with it, perhaps it is something else.

I've had no bloodbaths, and made two intact bitches previously intent in killing one another get along quite well.

[Liesje]

Well, I'll just say consider yourself lucky and keep it at that! If you've had no bloodbaths then you don't really understand what I'm talking about. It should not take someone with marine training and martial arts training just to keep two dogs from going at each other's throats all the time.

I think dogs like to decide amongst themselves what the heirachy is going to be (I mean, isn't this your point in your other thread?) so I can intervene all I want but if there's two going to constantly duke it out for that top spot then that's the way it is, it's not really up to us humans is it? I don't tolerate that level of aggression and fighting so I don't allow it to happen, plain and simple, but I am not kidding myself into thinking that I actually make the dogs get along and accept what positions in the hierarchy *I* have chosen for them. If two dogs can't live together without constantly picking fights then they just don't live together at my house. I don't have time to be constantly observing and analyzing dog behavior and all the "what ifs", it's just not safe and not allowed, period.

[Konotashi]

Gracie and Sania are 100% intent on killing one another. As soon as there's nothing between them- bam. Blood is going to be everywhere.
The fight I split them up from was the first one where no humans shed any blood.
My mom and her boyfriend both have had some gnarly bite wounds from breaking them up.

[Lilie]

Konotashi - I have two male dogs that can't be in the same room together. Ever. One is an older Golden. He is the aggressor, who btw, is nuetered. He is my responsiblity. I will crate and rotate and kennel and yard and seperate walks ....etc. till the day he dies.

I've committed. Easy or hard. Fun or not. The day I brought each dog home, they stay till the end.

I think you're doing a good job. And applaud you for not taking the easy way out.

[msvette2u]

You keep them separate until the state of mind of fighting stops.

There are dogs in which it never stops. You could sit around until doomsday and it does not stop.

If you've had no bloodbaths then you don't really understand what I'm talking about.

This. And some day there will be a bloodbath. In any multiple dog home it can happen instantly.

For instance...one day I had a little brain damaged foster dog and another bigger foster dog we had instantly went for it. I was quick and literally punted the bigger dog off the little dog. It was so strange and I was not expecting it, when I managed to get the little dog safe, I examined it and there was bruising but thanks to my reaction, no broken skin. The bruising is what hurts, anyway, the broken skin just lets germs in. The small dog limped for a few days afterward.

By hunter's advice, I should have let the two back together until what...the bigger dog killed the small dog?
There's times when crap just happens and two dogs are not going to get along; if put together, ever, one will die.