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Old 11-23-2012, 09:50 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I do, if the household is noisy and busy.
Even a dog needs some peace and quiet.

When Hans was a little puppy I always crated him somewhere else for his naps, otherwise he wouldn't get the good, deep sleep he needed.
This isn't about isolating the dog, it is about giving him some breathing room.
Everyone see's it differently. I choose not to use that particular tool with Tasha. It was not necesary and would have IMO caused her great distress.. She had a place to retreat if she wanted it (a crate with an open door) but she was never locked in.

Ivan was crated at night when he was a puppy. The crate was in our bedroom next to the bed.. During the day he was always with me. I leashed him to me at times to keep him out of trouble.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:01 PM   #52 (permalink)
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hmmmm...I see the point in what you are saying, shepherdmom, and don't disagree. But I don't think there is a single thing I've ever learned that I didn't modify to some extent.

The dog is supposed to be watching what is going on in the house, out playing with the owner...just not overwhelmed with new experiences like other animals, new places, training, etc. That allows the dog to chill out a bit and bond with the owner. So if you don't like the "isolation" part, why not set up a crate in the area that everyone is in AND one in a quiet room so the dog can have down time if need be?
That is pretty much what I said several pages back Michelle, It is a tool that is available to use and works for some dogs. I suggested that the OP talk to the trainer at the rescue they got the dog from to see if they had any suggestions because the trainer that worked with the dog would know better than any of us what the OP's particular dog would need.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:09 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Ivan was crated at night when he was a puppy. The crate was in our bedroom next to the bed.. During the day he was always with me. I leashed him to me at times to keep him out of trouble.
Same here.
Until he got so big that he made noise at night and woke me up

We no longer crate him at night or during the day. He stays in his roomy expen on his comfy bed. I really should crate him more often because he needs to be used to that, too.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:20 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I guess the expert doesn't believe in teaching the dog to be OK with alone time.
I think it is important for the dog to be OK by himself. Separation anxiety is not pleasant, and if the dog can't handle separation, that's a sign that he needs more of it.

It depends on the dog your working with IMO. My Tasha was a family dog at some point who at 7 wound up in a shelter. Living in a mostly outdoor shelter she would pace the fence and bark. She lost her home, her family, and even her tail... The last thing she needed when she came to me was more separation. She needed to be part of a family again. Ivan came to me as a scared puppy, who had likely been abused. People had hurt him. He was so afraid of people he was on the Euth list. Again the last thing he needed was to be isolated. He needed to know that he was safe and would be protected here. He also needed to be socialized, so after he was used to us he had to learn that other people were ok.

We can probably go around and around on this. I remember similar discussions on parenting boards by people who advocated attachment parenting and those who felt it was important for the child to learn to self soothe.

No one budged on their POV there, either
I don't doubt it. There are a million different training/parenting methods and we all think our way is the best.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:34 PM   #55 (permalink)
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No, the best training method is the one that works for that particular dog.

I think the best trainers recognize the need to be flexible and not stick to a one size fits all approach.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:04 PM   #56 (permalink)
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biggest mistake i see new guardians of rescues make is the "too much too soon" syndrome. each dog is different with respect to how much settling in time they need, but they all can benefit from some variation of a slow introduction to house/family routines and exposure to different environmental situations and new people. some of 'em (but not too many), are perfect from the get-go, most take a bit more patience. lots of great ideas and info/links already in the thread. glad you're not too fond of the vet you took him to, sounds like a change is surely in order. be careful, good luck, take care.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:08 PM   #57 (permalink)
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re the "terminology"...i think some people in the thread are way misinterpreting the "two week shutdown" which has nothing to do with isolation. it's simply a way to avoid bombarding the dog with sensory overload before they've had a chance to acclimate.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:15 AM   #58 (permalink)
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No, the best training method is the one that works for that particular dog.

I think the best trainers recognize the need to be flexible and not stick to a one size fits all approach.
It also depends on the person doing the training. A hard correction coming from someone who just isn't comfortable doing hard corrections is just not going to work. Which it is why it is so important for a breeder or a rescue to try to mix the correct personalities with the correct dogs.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:33 AM   #59 (permalink)
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We have always done some sort of "decompression" introduction with new dogs. Some adjust in a couple of days, some take a couple weeks. We adjust accordingly and always err on the side of caution. We do segregate the new dog, sometimes in a crate in a place they can observe but relax, and some do need the crate in a more isolated area. Once again, we adjust accordingly, if we isolate a dog based on a history we've been given and the dog seems lonely and wants more interaction then we move it in a more accessible area. If the dog seems stressed by the activity around it, then we move him into a quieter area until he feels safe with those surroundings and upgrade the input from there. Or maybe move the crate into a family area but cover with a blanket so they can get used to the sounds and just acclimate. No 2 dogs have ever been exactly the same.
We also do training and daycare with some seriously challenged dogs and do the same things professionally. Most dogs adjust in a few days, but we have had a few that took a week or two to give us the signals that they were ready for more.
I agree that maybe the term "shutdown" is what sets some people off before they even read it, but that is a marketing issue beyond my pay grade .
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:30 AM   #60 (permalink)
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We have always done some sort of "decompression" introduction with new dogs. Some adjust in a couple of days, some take a couple weeks.


I agree that maybe the term "shutdown" is what sets some people off before they even read it, but that is a marketing issue beyond my pay grade .
This I believe describes the situation perfectly. For anyone that does not know what the shutdown means, they may well think that it involves complete seperation of the dog, crated for 2 weeks. This is completely not the case.

The "2 week Shut down" is a program designed to cater to people who need step by step instructions on how to handle a dog, it gives you exact rules to follow in order to cater to most owners and thier dogs. The situation this creates, is that all dogs are different and all owners are different. If the two week shut down does not work with you or your dog, then alter it to cater to your needs. You are working with live animals, there is no exact science, if you think that areas of the "2 week shut down" are "harsh" or "cruel", or may not even work with your dog, then create a solution that will accomplish the same thing, in a different manner.

Personally with my dog, I got her at 7 weeks, she had her first injection at 8 weeks, second injection at 10 weeks and was finally allowed to go for walks at 11 weeks, so I was almost forced into a 4 week shut down. I used this period to introduce her to family and friends in a controlled environment, making sure that I only allowed them to greet her when she was calm. When friends came round to visit and she got boisterous, I would crate her. This was never a problem since she loves her crate and toys. I would also kee her leashed a lot of the time, for example, last night we had 10 people coming round, this was extremely exciting for her, so I made sure to keep her leashed the entire night. This was mainly for safety reasons, as we had a lot of wine glasses on low tables. there have been nights when we have had other people round and she has been allowed to stay off leash. the important thing to remember is simply not to overwhelm your dog, especially an adult german shepherd, due to their size and strength, so introduce them to new things gradually, there are many ways to accomplish the results of a stable dog, without adhering to every step of the shut down system, if that is something you dont agree with.

It is important also to remember that a lot of owners who are set against the 2 week shut down, likely have dogs that do not need it (I do not believe my dog needed it) however there are dogs that DO need it, and so this formula should not be discouraged just because someone does not like the methods involved. we have to use whatever methods needed to achieve the result of a well behaved dog, and it is our job as TRAINERS to work out what is the best (and by that I mean what the dog responds to, as well as what is good for the dog. For example, if your dog is doing a negative behaviour, you may quickly discourage this by violently beat it, however this creates psychological problems in your dog that can not quickly be reversed, and gives the dog a miserable life, rather than a happy one. So bear this in mind, when considering training methods) form of training for our SPECIFIC dog.
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