Being "civil" and social aggression?

[gagsd]

Originally Posted by BlackthornGSD

Just wanted to point out that the link to Feivel earlier in the thread went to this dog--

Feivel Von Den Wannaer Hohen [Not!Feivel]

instead of this dog:

Feivel von den Wannaer Höhen

LOL! Glad you caught that!
Sooooo, not the right dog.

[gagsd]

Originally Posted by pets4life

....
gags is the no collar grabbing thing cause she was an adult and not use to it? and you are a stranger to her? do you think its not safe to let a stranger grab any protection dogs collar? even tho they seem okay with it one day they just might get annoyied and bite?

She did not really respect/like me for more than a month after I got her. She accepted me as the human who fed her and brushed her.... but corrections were a big no-no.
Once I started working her and we had a relationship, she is actually very sensitive to my voice. I am sure I could have demanded obedience and compliance from day 1, but it likely would not have been pretty.

[gagsd]

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

I disagree - the dog should be balanced enough to understand and recognize a threat - a dog with strong social aggression should NOT be unsafe - that is not a sound dog! Chuck himself is safe in social situations, he is good with children, he is not constantly aroused in a suspicious way....I have had him on a leash with a toy and done obedience with him...there are other elements in your dogs pedigree, from the dam line on the dam - NOT the sire line! - that MIXED with elements of Chucks that could easily push his temperament up a notch IMO

Lee

Chuck vom Dorneburger Bach?
If so, interesting.... in that I took special note of him at the WDC in Nashville ( I think that was the event). He really caught my eye in protection.

[hunterisgreat]

My highly civil and socially aggressive Brawnson grandson is very handler soft. He would never dream of biting me. We have a level of clarity as to our relationship and what the rules are that I wish I had with my other dogs. He is also the dog I worry the least about in public.

[KristiM]

Im just curious about what dogs on the dams damline would be the issue? I believe I read on here that belschick Von eicken-bruche was known as being rather nasty. Optikas dusty is line bred 2-3 on him. Is that where his potential "extra temperament" may come from. I do find him a little over the top, but not in a nervy way, in an overly dominant way. Not directed at me... Just everyone else.

[gagsd]

Originally Posted by KristiM

Im just curious about what dogs on the dams damline would be the issue? I believe I read on here that belschick Von eicken-bruche was known as being rather nasty. Optikas dusty is line bred 2-3 on him. Is that where his potential "extra temperament" may come from. I do find him a little over the top, but not in a nervy way, in an overly dominant way. Not directed at me... Just everyone else.

I know of two Tom Leefdaalhof g-sons that can be..... a bit difficult. The third one I know is nice.
I have a Tom g-daughter, just 4 months. She is proving to be the most challenging puppy I have raised.
Very low trigger, quick to act, and determined little devil.

And the dam's dam line... perhaps the Gildo?

[wolfstraum]

{gagsd} Yes - it is Chuck Dorneberger Bach.....I have spent some time with him, had him on a lead, did obedience with him.....Dan just handed me a ball and his leash and said - take him out and work with him....you don't do that with a dog who is inappropriately aggressive! Chuck is very powerful in the work...his OB is not so flashy and IMO he lost the championship on the finest points of OB....crisper, straighter sits, not quite enough flash in heeling - but he was the first dog Dan trained, and has been in 6? 7? National events, regionals, 3 WUSV and 1 FCI - always the highest American trained dog...he had a long vacation and I was really impressed with him at the WDC....but as powerful and aggressive as he is, Dan's 4 year old can walk him, he is totally trustworthy in the house with both kids..

As far as Tom - have had 3 litters from Tom sons.....only 2 pups from one litter were a bit too sharp....and pretty much pegged where it came from....the Gringo litter was awesome....

{KristiM} Chuck produces the power and aggression....if there is higher level sharpness in a progeny, you have to look to the female side of the pedigree.....and see how it complements his pedigree....the Optika D litter was very sharp, very thin nerved from all discussions I have heard....mixing that with the Crok behind Chuck????? I would think it would go up a notch or two....

{hunter} Exactly - my civil female is VERY in tune with me - no handler aggression at all...heck, I have never needed electric and the prong is nothing more than insurance....she is the most biddable dog and easy to train....but she has a ton of aggression....Bengal same thing, and looks like Kougar, Kira and Kyra are similar....I haven't seen Kira, but Kougar is definitely a dog with indications of obvious social aggression - yet he is also a sweetheart!


I think Handler aggression is a totally different subject.
Lee

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by gagsd

I know of two Tom Leefdaalhof g-sons that can be..... a bit difficult. The third one I know is nice.
I have a Tom g-daughter, just 4 months. She is proving to be the most challenging puppy I have raised.
Very low trigger, quick to act, and determined little devil.

And the dam's dam line... perhaps the Gildo?

That pretty much describes Havoc at 4 months! I spent the first 6 months I had him with my jaw on the floor lol. Here is a video of him jumping off a 5 foot dock at 4 months

Havoc Dock Jumping - YouTube

Havoc Dock Jumping - YouTube

Both of my boys are Tom g-sons and the only thing they have in common is they are both GSDs lol. The more I hear about Havoc's dam line the more I think his over the topness comes from her.

Maybe what he exhibits isn't social aggression, just over the top dominance? Or just plain too much aggression? Knowing who he is as a dog I really don't believe his behaviors are fear based but ya never know I guess.

[pets4life]

kristi is your dog handler sensitive ?

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

{KristiM} Chuck produces the power and aggression....if there is higher level sharpness in a progeny, you have to look to the female side of the pedigree.....and see how it complements his pedigree....the Optika D litter was very sharp, very thin nerved from all discussions I have heard....mixing that with the Crok behind Chuck????? I would think it would go up a notch or two....

Lee

Hmm great, power, aggression and thin nerves lol. Ah well he is who he is. My first dog was so awesome that I figured I would get another one with some more umph.