Being "civil" and social aggression?

[pets4life]

My trainer said he won't work dogs like these without a full body suit. They are very dirty biters and fighters. My dog only wen't for my trainers hands once and it was scary lol


she did go for his chest also tho couple of times lol

[Jag]

Originally Posted by x11

don't see the behavior or the vid??

The behavior. Tail is up and wagging, looks like a lot of excitement and prey drive.

pets4life- I think I'll go with my breeder's opinion, and what I've seen so far. Given that she knows the lines and knows his parents, and she raised him and knows his raw temperament.

PatchonGSD- these are the dogs that "bring the heat" and "like to fight". The only real downside is if they aren't biddable and will even fight with the handler. I can tell you honestly that having a pup wanting to fight with you and challenge you is a shocker. Makes for some fast re-adjusting on how you handle things real quick.

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by pets4life

kristi dog havoc sounds like both a social aggessive and a civil dog in 1 a 2 in 1 deal lol


A dog like is also what onyx was talking about.


Pactchon NO that is not the case you can make any civil dog fight you pretty much but a dog like havoc just sounds like he is LOOKING for a fight he is what my trainer calls an "aggressive civil dog' Or what we are calling a civil dog with social aggression.


You can make a good dog fight a person pretty easy by fighting their handler or fighting them a good decoy can turn on a good dog within seconds. But a dog like the one kristi talks about seems to beg for that kind of challenge from ANYONE> A real piece of work lol These dogs need a very experienced handler and are not common at all.

Jag most gsds have the i can take on the world attitude but the one shes talking about is something else. I am pretty sure ur not going to end up with a dog like this.

x11 i don't think ur dog is like that either tbh. JMHO.

I have worked with dogs for about 12 years now, mostly pets, ran a daycare for several years etc. I only did schutzhund for 3 years so I don't have a ton of experience with working GSDs, but I can say that I have never met a dog like Havoc. I don't think dogs like him are very common. I am always afraid my posts about him come off as bragging about my bad a** dog, I am not. He is exhausting, and I really don't think the vast majority of people could handle him, nor would they want to.

(I do love him though, and I try really hard to stay positive about him. To me and my husband he can really be such a sweetie, and he does have a lot of good traits.)

[PatchonGSD]

I think I have a better understanding, but I guess a part of it is just seeing the dog for yourself.

[onyx'girl]

That would be a good idea, you are close to Nate or Mike's right? Best places to see for yourself

[PatchonGSD]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

That would be a good idea, you are close to Nate or Mike's right? Best places to see for yourself

I believe so. I've never had any dealings with either of them, but I guess I could contact them and see if I could watch them work with their dogs. I'm finding this subject to be pretty fascinating. lol

[pets4life]

u can take ur jack russel with u to watch lol

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by PatchonGSD

I'm looking for some clarification on these two things. The more I try to research it myself, the more I am confused.

1.) Is "social aggression" the same thing as being "civil", essentially?


2.) This is something that must be bred for (like good nerves), and cannot be taught, correct?

3.) Is it fair to say that a dog with "social aggression" is a dominant dog in personality, and one that would actually bite the flesh of a person vs a dog that will *only* bite a sleeve?

4.) Can anyone provide an example of a "civil" /"socially aggressive" dog?

Yes in most contexts

Yes

Yes

Jäger is very civil. Katya & Aska are not. Jäger does not like strangers. Jäger will posture back and up the anty to anyone who postures at him. Ill try to get a video of it in an hour or so

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by PatchonGSD

I believe so. I've never had any dealings with either of them, but I guess I could contact them and see if I could watch them work with their dogs. I'm finding this subject to be pretty fascinating. lol

Assuming Nate Harves or Mike Diehl are who she was referring to. Jäger is from Nates Stuka, who is from Mikes stormfront Brawnson. They have very powerful intense dogs. Not as prey flashy as many sport dogs. The dogs are real

In contrast to an earlier post, jäger is my dog that needs less management. He is my easy one to own

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by KristiM

This is how you get sport dogs to bite "for real" the helper acts like prey. You frustrate the dog the same way you would with a sleeve or pillow, only there is no sleeve or pillow just a person. The dog bites out of frustration "prey."

Yeah but that's still a prey bite. Not "real". Walk up to the dog with a lot of posture and presense. If he returns in kind, he is civil. He wants to dominate you, not eat or play tug. His desire is to show you he is badder than you are. This is the social aspect of a civil dog, as it is a competition based behavior. He perceives you as a competitor, not prey. This is why civil dogs are always very dominant. I can teach any dog to bite without equipment, but you don't need to teach a civil dog, you just push the right buttons