Being "civil" and social aggression?

[msvette2u]

Well it drives me nuts when people say "my dog SENSED that guy was bad".
I think to an extent dogs can do that but overall, it may be just a difference.
Or, as in Jax's case, the people might be just an idiot.

Temperament tests in shelters include a person with a cane, or walker, a person with an umbrella, a person who opens an umbrella, for this very reason. Many dogs haven't seen a person with a cane or walker, that doesn't mean the person with cane/walker is a mass murderer, it means the dog simply hasn't seen that before and it freaks them out

[Vandal]

We are not talking about dogs in shelters. We are talking about GSDs. You lean more to the unstable dog thinking than what we are discussing.
One thing I wanted to add about cocky people is most of them don't respect boundries...of dogs or people. Ok bye.

[msvette2u]

I was using an example (temperament tests in shelters), but people who bought their dogs "new" have this issue all the time.

[Jack's Dad]

It's hard to protect the herd and be friends with the wolves.

Loved the Stephanitz link. Heck he was almost a PO trainer. Ahead of his time.

[lhczth]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

Well it drives me nuts when people say "my dog SENSED that guy was bad".
I think to an extent dogs can do that but overall, it may be just a difference.
Or, as in Jax's case, the people might be just an idiot.

Dogs have a tremendous innate ability to sense things. If they didn't they would not be used as service dogs for the disabled or as seizure alert dogs.

Temperament tests in shelters include a person with a cane, or walker, a person with an umbrella, a person who opens an umbrella, for this very reason. Many dogs haven't seen a person with a cane or walker, that doesn't mean the person with cane/walker is a mass murderer, it means the dog simply hasn't seen that before and it freaks them out

A dog with good nerves does not freak out when they see these things. Actually it surprises me how many dogs of all breeds take these things in stride. I am a CGC evaluator and my friend who does the class building up to the test does all sorts of things like walking with a walker around the dogs or pulling a crate dolly. Some of the dogs will look, but we have never had any freak.

Unfortunately shelter environments put many dogs into a stressful situation that they are ill equipped to handle. That, though, is another topic.

[lhczth]

Andy, what is a PO trainer? Post Office?

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by lhczth

Dogs have a tremendous innate ability to sense things. If they didn't they would not be used as service dogs for the disabled or as seizure alert dogs.



A dog with good nerves does not freak out when they see these things. Actually it surprises me how many dogs of all breeds take these things in stride. I am a CGC evaluator and my friend who does the class building up to the test does all sorts of things like walking with a walker around the dogs or pulling a crate dolly. Some of the dogs will look, but we have never had any freak.

Unfortunately shelter environments put many dogs into a stressful situation that they are ill equipped to handle. That, though, is another topic.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.

That said, this particular "forum" of "aggression - the good bad and ugly" is rife with dogs doing just that.
Whether from breeders, rescues/shelters or pet shops, apparently bad nerves are all too common?

[Liesje]

As far as "sensing the bad guy", it depends on whether I trust my dog to make that call in the first place. I have one GSD who I trust when he alerts, perks up, reacts. We are in tune with each other. If he pauses and turns his head, I follow his gaze too. However I've also had a GSD that I did not trust because she had poor judgment (terrified of the nicest people, OK with someone I know to basically be a sexual predator). Just because the latter dog probably would bite someone before the former dog would doesn't in any way lead me to believe there was social aggression or a true sense of an ill-intentioned person, just a low threshold for a fight or flight response. So whether or not I trust my dog to "sense a bad guy" depends on whether or not I trust my dog and that depends on how well I know my dog and the bond that we have and by having a deeper bond I have an understanding of my dog's nerve and whether or not they are correctly calibrated to sense a bad guy.

[Jack's Dad]

Originally Posted by lhczth

Andy, what is a PO trainer? Post Office?

Hmmm. Perfect Obedience, Pretty Obnoxious, Properly Observant.

Naw. I think he would have been Positive Only, except he didn't have a Petco to buy treats from, and where he could socialize his dogs.

[VonKromeHaus]

Originally Posted by Liesje

As far as "sensing the bad guy", it depends on whether I trust my dog to make that call in the first place. I have one GSD who I trust when he alerts, perks up, reacts. We are in tune with each other. If he pauses and turns his head, I follow his gaze too. However I've also had a GSD that I did not trust because she had poor judgment (terrified of the nicest people, OK with someone I know to basically be a sexual predator). Just because the latter dog probably would bite someone before the former dog would doesn't in any way lead me to believe there was social aggression or a true sense of an ill-intentioned person, just a low threshold for a fight or flight response. So whether or not I trust my dog to "sense a bad guy" depends on whether or not I trust my dog and that depends on how well I know my dog and the bond that we have and by having a deeper bond I have an understanding of my dog's nerve and whether or not they are correctly calibrated to sense a bad guy.

Good post!^^^

My own GSD is very friendly, moreso than the average GSD in my opinion. I trust his judgement on people 110% of the time. He has NEVER been wrong about someone.

I want a stable dog that will protect me or the house and car if the situation arises. I am finding that dogs with good nerves are becoming the minority as the general population leans towards dogs with bad nerves IMHO.