Being "civil" and social aggression?

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Vandal

I'm not going to debate whether dogs have a certain level of social aggression, or if it is "appropriate " social aggression and so on. I think if something is deemed as a positive, people decide their dog has it, but then make sure to add the socially acceptable behaviors as well. I am just trying to be clear and honest because more and more, I think people need to hear the reality and not so much of the rest.

There are different types that make up the breed and of course, not all GSDs are socially aggressive...period. The dogs I am talking about were not mauling everyone in sight but I did have to learn how to handle the first one I owned, that's for sure. I entered SchH trials where, ( yes even back then, but with more sense), they tested for unprovoked aggression. We still had a loose leash temperament test before tracking, groups to heel through, judges right there on the field etc. I traveled all over the place with my first dog, who was certainly SA. He went to the WUSV twice, requiring two trips to Europe, not to mention, there were very few local trials for me back then.

The reason that was possible was because of me and the relationship I had with my dogs. Not to mention the people who taught me how to handle him. I made it clear what I did, and did not, want these dogs to do. It's that simple. They were not unreasonable, serve themselves kind of dogs, ( more of those now), they were very willing and had a strong desire to work with me. A strong desire to please and the bond was intense.

Never would view the helper as a playmate ...ever....always vigilant against outsiders and I had to manage them when people came to my house. They were ALWAYS watching what visitors were up to and no, there was absolutely no "fear" involved in how these dogs behaved. Once you became a part of the household, you were accepted by these dogs.

Never aggressive with children, they had a real sense about that. If the situation called for it, there was no hesitation to act and this wasn't about growling or snapping at someone. These dogs were not indecisive. Most now have no understanding of these types of dogs. I am sure more than a few have read this thread and are going down their list of definitions of what Anne is "really " talking about and thinking these were unstable, nasty dogs. Nasty is not a term I would ever use to describe them. They were so above that kind of behavior but yes, it is something you have to see.
I have decided that trying to describe some of these things on boards is maybe not the best idea due to what people already have installed in their heads. Especially nowadays. You really have to experience GSDs, all kinds of them, to understand clearly what you are seeing. I simply know that these were dogs I will never forget, they were really very special dogs and not at all like another breed.

You've just described the type of dogs my parents produced. I know exactly what you are talking about. You can't really put it in words and you have to see it to understand.

[hunterisgreat]

I agree that handler aggression is a seperate thing all together. Jäger is my most socially aggressive and civil dog, and also the least likely to show aggression at me (never even... the others have made or considered making a pass at me). Even if he is upset with me it will get redirected to something else.

[msvette2u]

I've read this thread as it progressed and I don't understand why people think it's okay for a dog to be "socially aggressive" when they or their owners are not threatened?
For instance, a neighbor reaching over the fence? Sure you could say "the dog felt a threat", but isn't that why good nerves are important?
If you're standing right there, and aren't afraid, why should the dog interpret that situation as a threat?

Am I misunderstanding something?

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

I've read this thread as it progressed and I don't understand why people think it's okay for a dog to be "socially aggressive" when they or their owners are not threatened?
For instance, a neighbor reaching over the fence? Sure you could say "the dog felt a threat", but isn't that why good nerves are important?
If you're standing right there, and aren't afraid, why should the dog interpret that situation as a threat?

Am I misunderstanding something?

I am curious about this, to an extent I agree that no, someone reaching over my fence really is not much of a threat. But is there no such thing as territorial behaviour? I always thought GSDs were known for being territorial?

[pets4life]

they are kristi but it has been bred out of them like vandal said some of them will grab a hold of someones arm comming into their territory but if these same dogs are let out or get loose in public or their fenced area they are usually ok


it is what made gsds and what makes SOME GSDs amazing guard dogs people dont walk around with a sign saying i am a threat they wait till their owners are there to let someone in. Most gsds will bark and look bad but the one i was talking about will nail someone if you come into its fence house or car without being invited.

[msvette2u]

I meant if their owner is standing there. Many people have said their dog is there while they visit over the fence, and if the person is too close or reaches over, the dog bites.
It seems a "good" dog, standing there while owner visits across the fence could distinguish that the person is not a threat??

[hunterisgreat]

I find sometimes trying to explain it in the context of humans where you can more easily imagine the feelings and emotions you would experience in the scenario can aid in understanding whats going on in the dog's head.

[gagsd]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

I meant if their owner is standing there. Many people have said their dog is there while they visit over the fence, and if the person is too close or reaches over, the dog bites.
It seems a "good" dog, standing there while owner visits across the fence could distinguish that the person is not a threat??

Several people actually stated if they are there, and calm, the dog is just fine.

[pets4life]

thats a foolish thing to do tho i would never let someone reach over the fence thats like giving a civil dog a bone (your arm) to bite lol its a temptation, if they want to come in the fence they can properly come around


also with a dog like this you dont own a fence where someone can reach over and pet your dog that is very stupid and foolish

don't tease it with your arm tho lol where it cant see your body ive done hidden sleeve work with my dog shes quick to latch on so i wouldnt ever let someoen do that

But if i am there i can open my gate and she will run out sniff them and then they come in

[KristiM]

Don't know what either of my dogs would do in that situation...never had a conversation with my current neighbours over the fence. I have neighbour issues, they are "not dog people" and they have created kind of a volatile situation regarding my dog and the fence. Which I think is part of the reason why havoc's reaction to someone reaching over the fence would be overly violent.