Being "civil" and social aggression?

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by Vandal

I view that as all the same thing. Territory falls under Social Aggression.

Yes.

I was asking Kristi about her boy---mainly because I suspect that he's totally clear and calms toward the stranger significantly as soon as he's out of his "territory" -- which for me shows very clearly that it's not fear aggression.

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by KristiM

Ya it's like a light switch. I have had several instances where I am walking with someone and him to my van, he's fine, as soon as we get to the van he turns into a chupacabra! Lol. We walk 5 feet away from the van and that same person can pet him, no problems. (This particular experiment was done with someone he knows and is very familiar with dogs, professional dog trainer.)

One thing that I do find kind of weird/unnerving with the territtory stuff is that he won't bark and carry on, he will just go for someone. Don't know what that's all about?

The going for someone without warning is, IMO, him being a jerk. Imagine if he were guarding a toy and did the same thing. Curious what Anne thinks.

My DDR girl Xita is super, super clear in her territory guarding--in kennel or crate or whelping room--absolutely guarding. Out of the space--no problems. And she absolutely distinguishes me from everyone else--doesn't guard at all from me.

[pets4life]

my dog is friendly to my friends but if i am not there she wont let them in my house or yard she will get extremly territorial until i am there nothing will change her mind

so i guess maybe she does have social aggression lol also in the car she might grab a person if they reach in threw the window

she guards things like robocop but you take her away from the guarding object with the same person the aggression is gone


but if she has a bond with someone like my parents or something she will let them in but someone she doesnt know really well she acts like she would rather die than let them in

[KristiM]

Ya he is kind of a jerk My logic on it is that in his head he shouldn't have to escalate like he normally does since the "line" has been crossed and people should know better! Like I said he's a jerk

[Vandal]

I don't care for dogs who act without warning. Not at all.

The simple solution is to use obedience to tell the dog how you expect him to behave BEFORE something happens in all of these situations. It is more difficult when these dogs are younger because maturity, ( and the right handling), tends to mellow things out, for the lack of a better way to put it.
Also, you have to be in control of YOURSELF. That means you can't be in these situations, with people around, when you are nervous or tense. You have to be calm, matter of fact and in control. I have found that the many idiots who wander America''s streets will, (for whatever reason), respect you and your dog when you tell them you are training him. If you simply ask them to go away, they will tell you all about how "talented" they are with animals. Those people are the ones the dogs ALWAYS want to bite...if I don't get 'em first anyway. lol.

I have a friend who breeds some pretty serious dogs. SHE has nerves of steel. I remember years ago, one of the dogs she was training was the definition of what I posted above . Didn't likes strangers and would bite them if given the opportunity. She worked the dog in obedience and then took him to a supermarket and told him to down by the door. People would come out the door and want to pet the dog. "SURE" she would tell them, "go right ahead". They would pet the dog and leave happy. She never said to them, " oh no, he will BITE you". She never acted like she was even the tiniest bit concerned. That would have put the dog on alert. She stood there as relaxed as could be but the dog was under her control. Most people, do not have this kind of skill or control of themselves, ( or their dogs), but it is a great example of the way people should at least" try" to behave when they have these kinds of dogs. It is never a good idea to warn people either, since that creates tension and anxiety in them and the dogs can SEE IT.

I am not saying to be so relaxed you are not ready to correct or manage the dog but you have to think about how YOU are feeling when you handle these kinds of dogs. You cannot fool the dogs, they know what you are feeling. If you are tense, it tells the dog that something is wrong. They will start to look for the reason you are upset. So, like I said, you have to be in full command of your own emotions when you work with these kinds of dogs.

[Vandal]

One more thing that I should have said about dogs who act without warning.....Most of the time, they are not being jerks. It is a case where they are reacting to something you are doing or feeling. Maybe a slight tightening of the leash because you are anticipating a problem. That is usually the culprit, ( and most people have no idea they are doing it), or it could be what I said above. You start to get tense because you know he might do something. The dogs sees it and acts.

[KristiM]

I agree, I don't like that he doesn't really give a universal "hey you, get away from my van" warning. I tell people to stay away from the van when I am loading and unloading. I am only working on the obedience around the van with a few dog savvy people. I still consider it a case of management though and I would hate to have to kill someone and hide them in the woods because my dog bit them (just kidding! In case anyone is offended by that.)

For the most part I act pretty relaxed, people pet him, its fine. If the person looks like it might be a problem I get a grip on my dog. I have gotten pretty good at reading people, if they look overly scared, I don't allow interaction, if they look overly cocky, same thing. It gets better every day (well not every day, some days its worse, but thats life.)

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by Vandal

One more thing that I should have said about dogs who act without warning.....Most of the time, they are not being jerks. It is a case where they are reacting to something you are doing or feeling. Maybe a slight tightening of the leash because you are anticipating a problem. That is usually the culprit, ( and most people have no idea they are doing it), or it could be what I said above. You start to get tense because you know he might do something. The dogs sees it and acts.

Yep, I will have to video what *I* am doing around the van. You are probably very right I have been instituting a lot more control with everything involving the van (only getting in and out when I say etc) and he has imporved already most likely becsause I am more confident of my control around the van. So often this stuff is a handler issue!

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by pets4life

What do most socially aggressive dogs do when a stranger just walks up and puts his hands on them? do they growl usually? My dog just ignores it like there is nothing there. like she can't feel it.


My friends filas will foam at the mouth and probably nip.

They will counter. Since touch is near the end of the process of posturing and aggression, contact back (nipping), or fighting is the logical response.

[Liesje]

Still trying to sort this out. I know very few GSDs that *won't* bark, lunge, snap, etc when someone approaches their vehicle, kennel, fence, front door, etc but I'm guessing the vast majority of these aren't all that socially aggressive, at least not in the more confident, assertive/forward way that we are talking about?