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Old 11-28-2012, 07:34 PM   #121 (permalink)
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What do most socially aggressive dogs do when a stranger just walks up and puts his hands on them? do they growl usually? My dog just ignores it like there is nothing there. like she can't feel it.


My friends filas will foam at the mouth and probably nip.

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Old 11-28-2012, 08:32 PM   #122 (permalink)
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My three would not take kindly to a stranger putting hands on them. They would warning growl and possibly bite. IF they can do the first greeting, then they'd probably be ok, depending on the 'stranger'.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:36 PM   #123 (permalink)
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I had a lady worm between 4 of us who were standing around talking at a dog show, and lean down and hug/kiss Ari in the face. He had been napping within our "circle." Ari looked at the lady, deemed her nuts and that was that. No aggression. I, on the other hand, nearly had a heart attack.

Another day at training... Ari in long down. I was hiding in the blind. Ari sits up. Club member playing judge walked forcefully toward him, arm outstretched, and said "NO, Platz." Which is what I would have done. But club member was not me. Ari stood up and leaned forward with The Look. Club member turned and walked away telling me to get my own dog. I giggled all of the way home that day.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:33 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Nike was not aggressive in a social situation. I took her to trials, stayed in hotels, took her to auctions and she would hang out with groups of friends with their kids. She was not super social as a young dog, but she also wasn't a loose canon. She just didn't care. Only person she ever hated was my vet and you didn't ever walk into my house uninvited. She had little respect for anyone but me as a friend found out when he tried to handle her for obedience and tracking titles.

Deja is actually more social, but I have to watch her more. She likes to push people and can be a bit scary to play ball/tug with (very intense). She also has traveled all over with me and, again, I don't worry about her around people. She wasn't too happy with her chiropractor last time, but unlike her grandmother and mother, she has yet to smile at him when he leans over her to adjust her neck.

The other dogs I knew also were fine as adults around people and groups of people. These dogs are not nasty, dangerous or unpredictable growling at stupid people or giving unprovoked bites.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:43 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Lisa, something interesting... Ari is very approachable, but acts as if people do not exist in Ari-world unless they have a ball, treat, etc.
However, I think he would have left me for Jeff L. at Indy. He really <liked> Jeff. It was odd, but interesting.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:44 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post
There is a common misconception that when a dog shows any aggression or "defense" as many label it, the dog is in fear and protecting itself......

There are too many nuances to behavior to label aggression with one rubber stamp....

Lee
I am curious about this because I had an incident with Huxley that I assumed was a fear response and I became concerned that he was a "nerve bag" and I would need to carefully increase his social opportunities, which I have been doing assiduously.

We were out for our nightly walk and a man kind of popped around the corner of the block ahead- Huxley saw him and he came out front of me instead of staying at heel and he kind of crouched (like the pre-pounce crouch when he plays) but he growled. Very low and rumbly and hackled a little while watching the guy. Ears forward, he leaned against the lead which is weird because he is not normally a puller, and tail up and still.

Is this what social aggression looks like? Or was this, as I assumed, a fear response? He is NOT a working line dog, ASLxWGSL, so part of my assumption is based on his lineage.

Plus he's a baby. 10 months old. So I was thinking "fear period" type of stuff.

Just curious. Thanks.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:48 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Aggression is not just fear or social.... My Anik dog has aggression, meets perceived threats quickly. Most of mine have been protective and/or territorial. But social aggression is something different and rare. IMO. I think my Ari has a touch of it, and out of all the dogs I have had hands on, he is the only one that I think may.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:55 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Both of my dogs are fine with people touching them. It's kind of funny I was just out training with a few people I have never trained with before, they were asking about sable colour so I invited them to come up close and look at the tipping etc on havoc. Havoc was fine, they were definitely not a threat but neither of them would come real close to him. I kind of just figured maybe they were a little worried about GSDs but then i brought Odin out, and after doing a few runs they both went up and pet him It was pretty obvious that they stayed out of havoc's bubble just because he gives off that "vibe" where as Odin is super chill and easy to approach. People that don't know dogs aren't as likely to sense a dogs bubble. Lots of people when I am out hiking just reach out and pet havoc. If they are being relatively friendly I can see his expression soften the moment he decides they are friendly. He ignores them after that point. If people maintain eye contact he escalates just like gagsd describes her dog.

I expect that my dogs are ok with being "pet" by strangers. They are in so many situations where people just do it, that if they acted nasty every time it happened I wouldn't be able to bring them anywhere! That being said if they are on leash and people ask I say no, neither dogs are nuts about being touched by strangers so I never force it on them. If they are off leash and people ask I say that they are welcome to invite my dogs to say hi to them, which both of them always ignore People always look so sad when they get the cold shoulder lol.


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Old 11-28-2012, 10:27 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Anne's comments linked protectiveness with social aggression. But I have had some dogs who were protective without having very high social aggression.

For example, my first GSD Thorn was very social and comfortable in public and he would show now aggression if I was walking him around or through a crowd. But if I went to a park and sat and read a book, he would go "on duty"--as long as people walked past me and didn't turn and watch me or approach, he would ignore them. But if someone turned to walk toward me, he'd growl, gradually increasing his reaction the more intently the person watched me and the closer the person approached. He started doing this on his own when he was maybe 18 months old, before I ever started doing bitework training with him. He showed similar guarding instincts all of his life. (This was my Am-bred GSD who went on to get his sch3.)

I knew Bodo v Tiekerhook after he came to the US as an older dog--he was a Fero son. I'd say he had social aggression, for sure--but he was also very, very stable (and independent!). It would have been interesting to see what he was like if he was with an owner who he had a strong bond with.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:40 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Quote:
He really <liked> Jeff. It was odd, but interesting

Nope, that's not odd. Jeff had that affect on one of my more protective /aggressive dogs when he was out here visiting. They were buddies within a few seconds. Jeff has no fear and he genuinely likes dogs. Dogs do not miss this and feel comfortable with the very few people who are like this. It is that "feel" that people talk about but few actually have.
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