Being "civil" and social aggression?

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by gagsd

I agree. I also prefer Ari's slower escalation to his brother's immediate fury. However, Ari has had a lot more training so perhaps that is it?

I have seen dogs that, when confronted in this manner; just look back, or wag tail, or sniff the ground, get up and look around, and even hide behind the handler.
Just from a hard stare.
(and I am talking about adult dogs' reactions, not puppies.)

I don't like immediate fury either, as that dog is skipping or rushing through the ritual of intimidation and progression of aggression. The whole point of the posturing is to decide who is more "the wrong one to mess with". All these steps (eyes->squaring off and looking bigger->noise->closing the distance->initial physical contact->actual fighting) are all designed to avoid actual fighting as this is advantageous for both parties. And pretty much all animals do this.

Consider people.. someone stares at you from across a bar. You look away and drink your drink, look back and they have maintained the stare. You *will* now feel a threat from this person. You have two options: avoidance or countering. You either laugh and talk to your friend "haha... this weird guy is staring at me", or you counter... stare back, maybe push away from the bar, square your shoulders.. he has the same two options. The next step he counters. You now have to up the ante or avoid. You counter again with noise "Hey, what the **** is your problem with me". He counters with noise back, and begins closing distance to you. You will then have initial non-fighting contact... people will get so close into each other's face that they are rubbing shoulders, or they will shove. After a shove or two, fists are thrown. Dog exchanges are identical save the methods of each step are obviously different.

I don't think its training, I think its just the nature of that dog to progress through much faster... maybe to make his counter more likely to turn his opponent, maybe b/c insecurity keeps him from calmly performing the "ritual".. who knows

[Zisso]

So just out of curiosity here...
My girl would not hesitate to bite a person if I was being threatened in her presence. Like if I was accosted or about to get mugged, she would bite the guy. Does that mean she is civil?

My bo would bark but I am not sure of he would bite. I doubt he would.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by Zisso

So just out of curiosity here...
My girl would not hesitate to bite a person if I was being threatened in her presence. Like if I was accosted or about to get mugged, she would bite the guy. Does that mean she is civil?

My bo would bark but I am not sure of he would bite. I doubt he would.

What makes you sure? Just curious.

[onyx'girl]

Originally Posted by lhczth

IMO nerves would be a separate component as Anne, I believe, alludes to in her post. No, dogs with high social aggression are not naturally on the nervy side. I think dominance does play a part since the dogs I have owned were also very dominant. They also had very high fight drive (something else Anne talks about in her post).

Unlike Anne I haven't seen as many of these dogs or maybe I just didn't recognize them for what they were at the time. Of course a few dogs do stand out in my mind. Brawnson for one and another was a dog called Smudge von Brumbly.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=736399 Both of these dogs were also very civil.

The dogs I have owned tended to be social when young, but on their terms. As they matured they became aloof. Not aloof like some people use the word. They didn't avoid people, they just didn't/don't care. I also had/have to watch them because they would/will push people to see if they can invoke a reaction. These dogs have also been civil and none were reactive/nervy.

Smudge was Brian H's dog? He told me that Karlo reminded him of Smudge....and that he doesn't see dogs like that very often anymore.

[x11]

Originally Posted by Zisso

So just out of curiosity here...
My girl would not hesitate to bite a person if I was being threatened in her presence. Like if I was accosted or about to get mugged, she would bite the guy. Does that mean she is civil?

My bo would bark but I am not sure of he would bite. I doubt he would.

hasn't this belief gone down as one of the greater myths in dogdom.

hope ya never have the belief tested and you rely on it to be true.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by x11

hasn't this belief gone down as one of the greater myths in dogdom.

hope ya never have the belief tested and you rely on it to be true.

Yeah... but people still say it.

Now Katya, I know she will bite if someone attacked me, because she has bitten someone who attacked me lol.

[pets4life]

vandal but what if our dog is great in personal protection but just not a nasty dog in public but will be on command and will bite for real? Mine doesnt act aggressive unless i ask her to? Or unless its terrirtoral aggression>? mine can be really nasty around the fence? but i never considered mine to be a social aggressive dog at all. But she will fire up on anyone i tell her to and probably bite them even a kid if i asked her to. But shes not aggressive in public she will let anyone pet her pretty much but i socialized the crap out of her shes met 100s of people. I just wanted a dog i could take everywhere but would turn on like switch a switch also and turn serious.


Just in public people will pet my dog sometimes off leash if she walks past i can't have a dog that will snap or take a chunk out of them lol Most of the time she will ignore their pets and keep walking which is what i like i just dont want a law suit or a liability dog i know shes safe. They can turn her on tho if they start acting aggressive towards us they could easily get her to get aggressive but still i didnt consider her social aggressive cause of that.

I never heard her snarl or bark at people unless they try to do something stupid like try to get in her fence without permission or go near her crate or car or in protection. But she seems to have a high high tollerance for people when shes off leash and free walking around in public. With kids being goofy or adults who dont know how to act properly. People running around and being stupid dont seem to anger her.

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by pets4life

vandal but what if our dog is great in personal protection but just not a nasty dog in public but will be on command and will bite for real? Mine doesnt act aggressive unless i ask her to? Or unless its terrirtoral aggression>? mine can be really nasty around the fence? but i never considered mine to be a social aggressive dog at all. But she will fire up on anyone i tell her to and probably bite them even a kid if i asked her to. But shes not aggressive in public she will let anyone pet her pretty much but i socialized the crap out of her shes met 100s of people. I just wanted a dog i could take everywhere but would turn on like switch a switch also and turn serious.


Just in public people will pet my dog sometimes off leash if she walks past i can't have a dog that will snap or take a chunk out of them lol Most of the time she will ignore their pets and keep walking which is what i like i just dont want a law suit or a liability dog i know shes safe.

What you are describing is just an unstable dog

[pets4life]

hunter what is? the one that will snap or take a chunk out of a stranger walking up to them? I always thought that was a social aggressive dog lol

[hunterisgreat]

Originally Posted by pets4life

hunter what is? the one that will snap or take a chunk out of a stranger walking up to them? I always thought that was a social aggressive dog lol

Yes. Assuming the stranger is passive