so i bought a muzzle and i am glad i did

[Jax08]

Originally Posted by sashadog

. So I wouldn't automatically jump to the Mal as the aggressor as it seems different dogs do have different fighting "strategies."

No where did I say Ma was the aggressor. I said it bothered me that she went for the throat. I was not there and I"m not going to make an assumption on what happened. I've stated that the sign could have been misread and maybe she was redirecting and the previous owner might have missed it. I stated my experience with my dogs that I made clear was from my experience with my dogs...but I did not state Ma was the aggressor nor will I.

[sashadog]

Originally Posted by Jax08

No where did I say Ma was the aggressor. I said it bothered me that she went for the throat. I was not there and I"m not going to make an assumption on what happened. I've stated that the sign could have been misread and maybe she was redirecting and the previous owner might have missed it. I stated my experience with my dogs that I made clear was from my experience with my dogs...but I did not state Ma was the aggressor nor will I.

Oh I wasn't referring directly to you in that post, sorry that I didn't clarify It was more a general statement since I had read that from other posters even in the original post about Ma joining Mrs.K's pack. I don't know how to selectively quote peoples posts or I would have just pulled the legs/throat part

[Mrs.K]

Honestly, I don't think it is a good idea to discuss Mal specific traits on this forum.

I can tell whether or not a dog is a good fit and I have taken action when I saw that a dog wasn't a fit and removed that dog from the pack within three days.
It is not all perfect. I can tell that there are distinct differfences between the breeds.

What you don't understand, Seltzer is that I do know that things can change in split seconds and I know which signs to look out for. They are never unsupervised and I know exactly what triggers Nala and Indra. I don't know it all but I do know Nala and Indra to the point where I can tell if something works or doesn't work and when to interrupt the play before it turns into a fight. I also know how to split them up and simply rotate two by two and give individual time. Today we did not go with all four on a walk but went on two separate rounds. Hubbie handled Ma and I had Nala. She was walking perfectly on a lose leash.

So that might make it easier for her. I know that Nala or Yukon is a better fit for Ma because she can't feed offof them. Wheras Indra and Ma do feed off of each other. One dog starts and Indra joins in and voila, both amp each other up. Yukon is very calm and Nala could care less, she is just spunky and cocentrates on you.

So yah, I do think I have the Situation under control. I know what potentially could happen with three females and I do make sure that it doesn't happen.

Meanwhile she is crate trained and she is crated every night. Right now, indra and Yukon are outside while Nala ad Ma are crated. I utilize every tool I have and the muzzle is a tool just like a prong. It is a temporary fix and next week I will meet up with my trainer friend to see how we can work this out.

I am more and more leaning towards adolesence stage. It fits everything else she is doing and I am not sure if that can be compared to the gsd at all. While there are similarities the two breeda could not be more different.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Jax08

No where did I say Ma was the aggressor. I said it bothered me that she went for the throat. I was not there and I"m not going to make an assumption on what happened. I've stated that the sign could have been misread and maybe she was redirecting and the previous owner might have missed it. I stated my experience with my dogs that I made clear was from my experience with my dogs...but I did not state Ma was the aggressor nor will I.

Ma was on the ground. The pit was on top going for the legs and Ma defended herself. When Marcus saw her at the last training session he said "That pit wasn't messing around." Just by looking at her injuries. I am not familiar in how pits fight but I was told from numerous people that it isn't unusual and the goal is to demobalize the other dog.

[Jax08]

I've never seen a pit fight. It was obviously serious from her wounds. The pictures were horrendous.

[selzer]

Mrs.K, the name is selzer -- no T ok.

[GSDElsa]

Between the great dane, Zenzy, Judge and Yukon fighting, and this dog I wish you wouldn't be so blind to things people are trying to point out to you. Muzzle or not, even the act of her TRYING to go after Indra and Nala could set THEM off and you could start having major issues.

You definitely seem to be playing with fire.

[gsdraven]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

As for if she is a fit or isn't. I know when a dog is a fit or isn't a fit. She is a fit!

And for her not testing. Jamie, how do you know if she is testing me or isn't. You don't know her. You are assuming things.

I'm not assuming anything. Years of experience, study and shared knowledge have taught me what I am saying to you. If she is pushing you now, even the more reason to heed the warnings and it's not something to brag about. In the years that I've been fostering, not one dog has truly settled in after 2 weeks without an adjustment period further down the line. And I don't take in cute little puppies either.

This one will turn out like all the others. Behavior patterns don't lie.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by gsdraven

I'm not assuming anything. Years of experience, study and shared knowledge have taught me what I am saying to you. If she is pushing you now, even the more reason to heed the warnings and it's not something to brag about. In the years that I've been fostering, not one dog has truly settled in after 2 weeks without an adjustment period further down the line. And I don't take in cute little puppies either.

This one will turn out like all the others. Behavior patterns don't lie.

Like all the others? You mean like Nala where everyone said, "don't get a female, they will fight!" and I said "She fits." within the first two weeks, and she did fit?

Or like the little other female, my foster that fit the pack and my male foster that I rehabilitated?

Zenzy is a whole different story and nowhere near comparable with Ma Deuce. Ma Deuce is NOT Zenzy.

So what other dogs do you talk about? What behavior pattern are you talking about?

Also, just for the record, Judge and Yukon have never fought. They never, never, never had a fight, so I don't know where Justine is taking that from.

Zenzy went after the Great Dane. She then went after the others. I probably should have never brought her to the US and I underestimated the situation, plus the situation we were in, wasn't exactly the best. We had no other option and I did what I had to do.

I know my pack, I know what I can expect out of my pack. I had so many dogs going in and out of this pack it's not even funny.

I had the Great Dane, the Dachshunds living with us. Indra, Judge and Yukon had no issues with other dogs in the pack.

Nala, Indra and Yukon have no issues with other dogs and Ma Deuce does fit in. She may make adjustments but I am expecting that anyways, since she's just a year old.

Do not tell me what my pack can handle or can't handle. You do NOT know my pack. You do not know Indra or Nala or Yukon and you do not know Ma Deuce either.

The only other dog that I removed after three days was a Husky/Malamute mix because he didn't fit the pack and it was just not worth it.

If what you say were true, I could have never visited Lana in Texas and threw my dogs into her pack of females and spent the afternoon together.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

Between the great dane, Zenzy, Judge and Yukon fighting, and this dog I wish you wouldn't be so blind to things people are trying to point out to you. Muzzle or not, even the act of her TRYING to go after Indra and Nala could set THEM off and you could start having major issues.

You definitely seem to be playing with fire.

She didn't go after Nala and Indra. She re-directed. There is a difference.

Also, Judge, Yukon and the Great Dane never fought. It was Zenzy that went after each of them. That too makes a difference. There wasn't a fight between the four of them.

Neither Judge, nor Yukon, nor the Great Dane went after any other dog.

The muzzle is a temporary fix on walks. In the house, she doesn't wear the muzzle, because there is no need for it.

Things are a lot different than back then and I now have resources that I did not have two years ago. I do believe that I am in very good hands.

Memo to myself: In the future, post only pictures and videos!

I really don't know what the issue is:

- Issue immediately addressed by seeking out professional help and putting a muzzle on the dog
- Separating the dogs
- Dogs under constant supervision and individually given time
- Rotation of dogs

So please, tell me, where I'm playing with fire again.

I am doing everything after the book and immediately addressed the issue. But hey... damned if you do, damned if you don't.